"We know he's a fraud, but we're voting for him anyway."

[kage69]

Heh since you cant respond with facts. You seem confused enough for the both of us.

You showed me in that last thread not to bother, it just prompts you to break out your bale.

I'll just cut to the part where you cherry pick things and act smug about it, and I get to laugh and dismiss you.

 

[sandorski]

5 Stupid Things about Romney

 

[Moonbeam]

It's perhaps a matter of perspective. When you don't like the devil you know the one you don't might be worth a shot. To put it another way if a person is 100% trusted to do things one doesn't like, then their is less of a reason to choose them. FWIW.

Basically then, one could maybe say that if one doesn't like a democratic centrists then choosing a pathological liar who will say anything to get elected would be a good idea. Personally, I can't see how electing a thing that shows no humanity would be a good idea. But we may have a chance to see.

 

[Moonbeam]

Plus the Democrats will have to block everything Romney would want for 4 years then say his administration is a complete failure.

They will not do this. All the scientific research on liberal brains say they will not play team over reason, in short, they will cave to the needs of the country before they will destroy it and move farther and farther to the right. Only a defective fucking conservative mind will destroy the country to win. Our descent into madness will continue if Romney wins. The rich will get richer and inequity will grow.

 

[trenchfoot]

I know why Romney often has this smug look on his face when stumping a crowd. It's the same look a used car salesman has after he rips off a customer for a hefty profit. I can't help but think that every time he finishes a campaign speech, he's laughing his ass off inside thinking about how he's basically selling snake oil to all of those working class folks that adore him and they're asking for more. He's having giggle fits and being amazed at how idiotic people are that they would believe the bald faced scam he's pulling off and how he's getting support from the very folks who he's planning to victimize the day after he's elected.

He's already made known his intentions by what he preaches to his choir of very very rich folks just like him. He's chosen a running mate known for wanting to kill or privatize every federal social assistance program he can lay his hands on. And still he has a following of middle class and poor voters who would ignore the obvious and believe the lies he's blatantly espousing every time he opens his mouth.

I'm so certain that Romney is just as amazed as I am that he could get away with the slapstick act he's presenting to the masses.

 

[Genx87]

You showed me in that last thread not to bother, it just prompts you to break out your bale.

I'll just cut to the part where you cherry pick things and act smug about it, and I get to laugh and dismiss you.

Sounds good, will be easier on your bruised ego to exit stage left.

 

[diesbudt]

New CBS/NYT poll has Obama up by 1 nationally, 48-47.

Asked if the candidate says what he believes or what people want to hear, Obama scores 50/47, while Romney scores 42/54.

So... a bunch of people know Romney is lying, but they're supporting him anyway.

This election is making me want to throw up.

Would you rather have the person you know is lying? Or the one you don't know?

Just food for thought.

Normally when its 2 bad candidates believing them is not as important. Instead some will vote for the ones not in office, because what is currently in office is not working for them, so its worth taking a chance on the other unproven candidate.

 

[irishScott]

What is worse, voting someone you know is lying, or voting for someone whom you refuse to believe is lying? :hmm:

This. Believing any politician purely means what they say to any portion of the public is the height of naivete.

Romney's numbers are slightly lower because he has to pander to radicals in the primary and moderates in the general, and thus his word is more irregular. Nothing more. He's actually balanced the two quite well, you'll notice he hasn't met the fate of John Kerry.

In answer to the OP: "We know almost all politicians are at least partial frauds, but we vote for them anyway."

 

[hal2kilo]

This. Believing any politician purely means what they say to any portion of the public is the height of naivete.

Romney's numbers are slightly lower because he has to pander to radicals in the primary and moderates in the general, and thus his word is more irregular. Nothing more. He's actually balanced the two quite well, you'll notice he hasn't met the fate of John Kerry.

In answer to the OP: "We know almost all politicians are at least partial frauds, but we vote for them anyway."

Yea he doesn't have the Rove spin machine on his back.

 

[Desturel]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/


35 minutes.
There's 5 pages of them so I didn't quote them.

I'll go over the first page of them. Just to see if these are "lies" or things that are blocked by congress.

1. Increase the capital gains and dividends taxes for higher-income taxpayers
- He still wants to increase Capital Gains. The last I checked, that's still being filibustered. Should obstruction by congress count as a lie?

2. Expand the child and dependent care credit
- This is part of the tax code modification that is still under debate in congress. The President can only suggest changes in tax code. It's up to the House to implement those changes. So again, should this count as a lie? Did he somehow change his position on this matter?

3. Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners
- The first line of this article states the following "When it comes to President Barack Obama's promise to create a foreclosure prevention fund, he's kept to the letter of law, but his administration has completely failed to meet its spirit. For that, we're moving this our rating to Promise Broken." If you read the document, he didn't lie, but it didn't live up to expectations since it wasn't as expansive as he stated it would be. In a time where everyone is crying for "limited government intervention", I'm surprised that the little bit that has made it through made it through.

4. Provide option for a pre-filled-out tax form
- This measure is currently sitting in Congress waiting approval. So do you blame Obama or congress?

5. Create a mortgage interest tax credit for non-itemizers
- No argument on this one. This isn't in the list of things Obama has suggested to Congress about the new tax code. If he hasn't suggested it officially I can't say that Congress is holding it up (although I'm sure they would be if he ever did announce it officially). Considering that Romney wants to eliminate the mortgage interest tax credit (depending on what day it is and who he's talking to), I'm not sure if you'll get a much better response from Romney.

6. Require automatic enrollment in 401(k) plans
- Instead of mandatory enrollment, the wording has changed to voluntary automatic enrollment, so I guess you can rate this one as lie as well. It still hasn't passed through congress so there is that problem. BTW, this was a republican idea that is being held back by republicans in congress. (look up David John)

7. Require automatic enrollment in IRA plans
- As with the 401k plans, this has changed from required to voluntary.

8. Create a retirement savings tax credit for low incomes
- It was in his 2011 budget, but that was scrapped in the House. So... once again Congress is the roadblock.

Are you sure your problem is with Obama and not congress? Continuing on

9. End income tax for seniors making less than $50,000
- Why, isn't that the 47%ers that Romney and other republicans are already complaining about? Why expand that number? More to the point, this was another one that I'll give you. It isn't in the proposed budget, so Congress can't officially block it, so I can't blame congress for this one.

10. End no-bid contracts above $25,000
- Hah. That was wishful thinking. I think that's more of a naive promise made by someone who didn't know how things worked in the government than an outright lie. Too bad though since I'll list this one as a lie for fairness sake. If that had succeeded, the SAICs, Northrop Grummands, and Boeings of the world would have thrown a shitfit. (ie. this is the cue for your "bought and paid for" conspiracy theorists to chime in. Not that you'll provide any solutions for the problem of large corporations having so much control over politicians. you're all just a bunch of whiners with no solutions)

11. Create a $60 billion bank to fund roads and bridges
- Obama's stance on infrastructure has never changed. Not once. This is another case of Congress obstruction. I'm not sure how you can call this a lie since it's outside of his control.

12. Repeal the Bush tax cuts for higher incomes
- He's still pushing for this. It's still being blocked by Congress. I'm not sure how you can consider this a lie when he's never changed his message on this issue.

13. Phase out exemptions and deductions for higher earners
- Blocked by Congress. Like with the Bush tax cuts, his story has never changed on this end.

14. Sign the Employee Free Choice Act, making it easier for workers to unionize
- The EFCA has been repeatedly filibustered. Look up the history of the act. Also Republicans care about unions? I thought Scott Walker, the Union buster, was your hero. It's hard for him to sign an Act that hasn't made it to his desk.

15. Lift the payroll tax cap on earnings above $250,000
- He wants to adjust the tax cap based on inflation. Guess what, Congress doesn't like that idea. Thus it hasn't passed.

16. Forbid companies in bankruptcy from giving executives bonuses
- Another case of him being naive. If you'll recall, he attempted to do this when the financial crisis was occurring and people were screaming "socialism!" and "government take over of our freedom" when he tried to do it. So you can thank Fox News and other organizations that promote fear as a business model for that failure.

17. Allow workers to claim more in unpaid wages and benefits in bankruptcy court
- Congress has to approve of this type of measure. Guess what happened to it?

18. Allow imported prescription drugs
- This was taken out of "Obamacare" as a compromise to get it passed. Or as Illuminati / Bilderberg conspiracy people will say "Obama was bought and paid for by big drug". Which of course completely ignores that he couldn't get the legislation passed through congress unless he made the changes. Sometimes I wonder if the conspiracy people understand that the president can't rubber stamp anything. You have to take care of the corrupt people on congress before the president can change a damn thing. Anyway, promise broken.

19. Prevent drug companies from blocking generic drugs
- There is a bill in the Senate for this but no bill in the House. As with the EFCA, Obama can't sign a bill that doesn't get placed on his desk

20. Allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices
- There are bills in the Senate for this measure, but they are currently being blocked... Yay for congress.

I would rate 4 out of 20 on the first page as "lies" and even then I'm not sure if any of them classify as "lies" since he didn't change his position on the matter. I'm pretty sure even if I go over the other pages, I'll just see more of the same.

Anyway, if you want, we can go page by page to try in find actual lies from Obama or we can just turn on the TV and watch Romney lie in a advertisement about Jeep that Jeep has already denied as false. Either way.

 

[kage69]

Sounds good, will be easier on your bruised ego to exit stage left.

Mono claiming a touchdown, you think straw bruises, oy vey... maaaan this thread delivers! lol





irishscott: I'm reluctant to put all other politicians in the same category as Romney, even though I consider them far from honest people. I do think it's odd that many people on the right who spend so much time complaining about lying politicians will throw their weight behind the most egregious of offenders (ok, maybe not compared to Ryan) in the interests of not letting the other team win. How about using your votes to keep the career liars from representing your party? Seems pretty stupid to complain about the process while taking part in maintaining it. At least Dems can say they supported an "outside the beltway" candidate in Obama, GOP hasn't done that since, what, Reagan?

 

[monovillage]

I know why Obama often has that smug look on his face when blowing smoke up the media's ass. It's the same look cocaine dealers get when they hook a new batch of girls on the drugs and knows how soon it will be before they're turning tricks on street corners so they can get more of his "stuff". He knows he has enormous power over the weak willed drug addicts always craving that thrill up their leg, knows he can lie and cheat and screw them upside down and twice on Sundays and they'll always be coming back for more of his "hope and change" candy.

I'm so certain that Obama is just as amazed as I am that he is getting away with his routine again.

 

[monovillage]

I'll go over the first page of them. Just to see if these are "lies" or things that are blocked by congress.

<snip>

Thanks for pointing out at least 4 lies told by Obama in the 1st page of politifact. If someone can't, won't or has no intention of keeping a promise then it counts as a lie. Obama had 2 years with a Democrat House and Senate, why didn't he keep those promises when he could?

 

[jackstar7]

Thanks for pointing out at least 4 lies told by Obama in the 1st page of politifact. If someone can't, won't or has no intention of keeping a promise then it counts as a lie. Obama had 2 years with a Democrat House and Senate, why didn't he keep those promises when he could?

Reality not found.

 

[bfdd]

I literally made tis thread for Obama supporters already with a video accompanied and it got ignored so lols. Forum bias is showing. Romney and Obama supporters both support lying assholes, both. If you want to say one is worse I can make the opposite argument and I support neither. Fools.

 

[Desturel]

Thanks for pointing out at least 4 lies told by Obama in the 1st page of politifact. If someone can't, won't or has no intention of keeping a promise then it counts as a lie. Obama had 2 years with a Democrat House and Senate, why didn't he keep those promises when he could?

You seem to be confusing democracy for imperial rule. Is your opinion of a good leader one who consistently forces his will upon everyone else without considering any other opinions or point of view?

Also you haven't covered for the problem that 80% of the "lies" that you so lazily pointed out have been created by Congressional obstructionism. If Congress is the reason for the failed promises, then why aren't you mad at Congress?

Then there is the small problem of Romney. Even with Obama's problems listed, none of them are because Obama suddenly had a change of heart or did a total 180 on his original stance. However whenever you attempt to nail Romney down on any statement he'll spin his position so fast that time on the Earth might start moving backwards. It's easy to name issues where he's doing a 180, 360, 720 on:
Abortion
Assault Weapons
FEMA
Medicare
Social Security
Affordable Care Act
There are no stances for Romney that you can find that he did not take the exact opposite stance on at some time in the recent past. I'm not even saying "look back decades". I'm saying "look back to earlier this year". Even the whole "lets cut taxes for the rich again" position is one he stated he was opposed to when he was running in the Republican primaries. He says "47% of Americans don't want to take personal responsibility for themselves", but he criticized the US for taxing Olympians on their winnings in the Olympics. He also said that he wouldn't tax the elderly at the same time, however they make up the majority of the 47% that isn't taxed currently (along with active duty military).

I'm curious to see if I get a real answer for you regarding some of these obviously conflicting statements from Romney, but I doubt I will.

 

[Agent11]

Romney has outright lied about his positions on ALMOST EVERY ISSUE. Obama has a few things he hasn't pushed congress for after they blocked him on everything else.

Not equatable in my opinion.

If you think Obama hasn't been doing enough, give him a Democrat majority in the house and a super majority in the senate.

Almost everyone agrees that infrastructure projects would be a great way to boost the economy, employ people and fund our future. Obama is trying.

Vote out the obstructionist douche bags that are sabotaging congress' ability to DO IT'S JOB.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Basically then, one could maybe say that if one doesn't like a democratic centrists then choosing a pathological liar who will say anything to get elected would be a good idea. Personally, I can't see how electing a thing that shows no humanity would be a good idea. But we may have a chance to see.

We will see. Neither candidates represent me, so I'm not a fan of either. I offer a possible explanation, not a judgement.

 

[monovillage]

You seem to be confusing democracy for imperial rule. Is your opinion of a good leader one who consistently forces his will upon everyone else without considering any other opinions or point of view?

Also you haven't covered for the problem that 80% of the "lies" that you so lazily pointed out have been created by Congressional obstructionism. If Congress is the reason for the failed promises, then why aren't you mad at Congress? <snip>

You skipped the first 2 years of his term when he had a majority in the House and Senate. I'm perfectly happy that the House and by threat of filibuster the Senate have kept him from passing even worse laws (such as Cap N Trade) than his health care fiasco. We're not talking about the bad laws that Obummer is trying to pass, we're talking about his lies and his broken promises.

BTW since I live in California I won't be voting for Romney, I'll be voting Johnson or Stein.

 

[ivwshane]

You skipped the first 2 years of his term when he had a majority in the House and Senate. I'm perfectly happy that the House and by threat of filibuster the Senate have kept him from passing even worse laws (such as Cap N Trade) than his health care fiasco. We're not talking about the bad laws that Obummer is trying to pass, we're talking about his lies and his broken promises.

BTW since I live in California I won't be voting for Romney, I'll be voting Johnson or Stein.

No we were talking about his lies not his broken promises. So what lies would those be again?

 

[monovillage]

No we were talking about his lies not his broken promises. So what lies would those be again?

Listed, just look them up in my previous link from www.factcheck.org

 

[Genx87]

Mono claiming a touchdown, you think straw bruises, oy vey... maaaan this thread delivers! lol

And here we are again, your ego bringing you back to respond to somebody you said you would ignore.

 

[Agent11]

You skipped the first 2 years of his term when he had a majority in the House and Senate. I'm perfectly happy that the House and by threat of filibuster the Senate have kept him from passing even worse laws (such as Cap N Trade) than his health care fiasco. We're not talking about the bad laws that Obummer is trying to pass, we're talking about his lies and his broken promises.

BTW since I live in California I won't be voting for Romney, I'll be voting Johnson or Stein.

In two years he did something that congress has failed to do for decades, healthcare reform.

Considering our congressmen don't goose step to the party line like yours do we can't ram legislation through at the speed of light.

 

[irishScott]

Mono claiming a touchdown, you think straw bruises, oy vey... maaaan this thread delivers! lol





irishscott: I'm reluctant to put all other politicians in the same category as Romney, even though I consider them far from honest people. I do think it's odd that many people on the right who spend so much time complaining about lying politicians will throw their weight behind the most egregious of offenders (ok, maybe not compared to Ryan) in the interests of not letting the other team win. How about using your votes to keep the career liars from representing your party? Seems pretty stupid to complain about the process while taking part in maintaining it. At least Dems can say they supported an "outside the beltway" candidate in Obama, GOP hasn't done that since, what, Reagan?

I'm not even registered as Republican and thus have all but absolute zero say in reforming the Republican party. I fail to see how Romney is any worse a liar than other politicians on both sides. How does Obama being a relative beltway outisder mean anything? They picked him because he was the most likely to win/best represent the party's interests. That's the purpose of a primary.

What it comes down to is I think Romney could potentially do a better job than Obama. As for "complaining about the system" I'm going to vote for the candidate I feel is best suited for the job, even if I don't like any of them. Everyone talks up voting 3rd party or non-voting as some glorious display of defiance. Fact is if any of the current 3rd parties of note (Libertarian, Constitution, or Green) actually won we'd be screwed over even worse in a myriad of different ways; and non-voting is simply ceding even more political control to the radicals.

 

[Agent11]

If you don't think Romney is any worse you haven't been paying attention or are too jaded to discern reality.