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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
Signs.... Signs....
TRUMP 2024, displayed next to DON'T SHIT ON THE GRASS.
Who can tell the difference?
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,273
8,198
136
I reluctantly voted Trump 2016 because I had seen Biden put his foot in his mouth WAY too many times, and I felt like he might not "be all there", as they say.

Just how many layers of irony are there in this statement?

Poster can't remember which election was which or who ran in which of them, but claims he was worried _Biden_ might not "be all there" because he's a poor public speaker....so instead voted for the guy who has rarely managed to formulate a coherent sentence ...in an electoral contest that never happened.
 

GunsMadeAmericaFree

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2007
1,276
294
136
Kind'a amusing to me that in his attempt to appear to be an independent, he just made it that much more apparent that he wasn't. I mean his avatar told me everything I needed to know about his wearing a red cap or not. lol

How many of you have voted for those running for president who were not from one of the 2 main parties? My wife and I have, several times. Libertarian, green and Perot's Reform party back in '92. I have also voted for both Democrats and Republicans, depending on what my research has told me about the particular candidates.

I don't feel that either of the two main parties is very close to my personal beliefs. Libertarian is probably closest. I have a Bachelor's degree in Environmental Studies, and we do our part with composting, driving cars that get at least 40 mpg, capturing rainwater, and other choices we make to minimize our environmental impact.

However, I've also seen the other side of the coin. Most of my relatives are farmers. One local government agency told my uncle that he had to set aside a certain lowland area of his property, telling him to plant a certain type of shrub there. He did so, at considerable time and expense. In less than 6 months, another government agency came through and destroyed the entire planting, putting in drainage for the township.

It was an example of how stupidly government is organized, and how they put things into effect without communicating with each other. It reinforced my thought that a lot of government regulations and programs are wasteful and ineffectively run.

Yes, I'm a gun rights advocate. I believe that just about everyone should be able to own and use a gun for hunting or target practice. Both sets of my grandparents had guns. My dad has a couple of guns. Personally, so far I only have a BB gun that we use with the kids for target practice when we go camping.

I'm also one of those rare environmentalists who feel that next generation nuclear needs to be a big part of decreasing the amount of carbon dioxide we are putting into the atmosphere. Nuclear is natural/green, and natural nuclear reactions have been happening within the earth's crust for eons, heating water naturally.

So yeah, I'm an environmentalist who is for nuclear power, gun rights, and I have a libertarian worldview. I also don't believe that our country's founders would have supported us having a permanent, standing military force, and that doing so makes it more likely that we end up more in debt, involved in overseas struggles.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,665
24,966
136
I also don't believe that our country's founders would have supported us having a permanent, standing military force, and that doing so makes it more likely that we end up more in debt, involved in overseas struggles.
The country's founders had to deal with this question shortly after the founding of the country. Guess what? The ultimate conclusion was we needed a standing military force. We had to be able to protect our own shipping around the world for example hence the establishment of the Navy and Marines.

We can have all sorts of valid debates about the size and mission of our military forces but thinking the subject of if we should even have a military is really a question is a very naive position.
 
Reactions: iRONic

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
29,292
136
How many of you have voted for those running for president who were not from one of the 2 main parties? My wife and I have, several times. Libertarian, green and Perot's Reform party back in '92. I have also voted for both Democrats and Republicans, depending on what my research has told me about the particular candidates.

I don't feel that either of the two main parties is very close to my personal beliefs. Libertarian is probably closest. I have a Bachelor's degree in Environmental Studies, and we do our part with composting, driving cars that get at least 40 mpg, capturing rainwater, and other choices we make to minimize our environmental impact.

However, I've also seen the other side of the coin. Most of my relatives are farmers. One local government agency told my uncle that he had to set aside a certain lowland area of his property, telling him to plant a certain type of shrub there. He did so, at considerable time and expense. In less than 6 months, another government agency came through and destroyed the entire planting, putting in drainage for the township.

It was an example of how stupidly government is organized, and how they put things into effect without communicating with each other. It reinforced my thought that a lot of government regulations and programs are wasteful and ineffectively run.

Yes, I'm a gun rights advocate. I believe that just about everyone should be able to own and use a gun for hunting or target practice. Both sets of my grandparents had guns. My dad has a couple of guns. Personally, so far I only have a BB gun that we use with the kids for target practice when we go camping.

I'm also one of those rare environmentalists who feel that next generation nuclear needs to be a big part of decreasing the amount of carbon dioxide we are putting into the atmosphere. Nuclear is natural/green, and natural nuclear reactions have been happening within the earth's crust for eons, heating water naturally.

So yeah, I'm an environmentalist who is for nuclear power, gun rights, and I have a libertarian worldview. I also don't believe that our country's founders would have supported us having a permanent, standing military force, and that doing so makes it more likely that we end up more in debt, involved in overseas struggles.
If you cared at all about the environment you would have voted Democrat against every single GOP candidate you have ever been able to vote against. Full stop. What you do in your personal life will have zero impact on the environment. Now it is too late. We could cut emissions to zero today and it's still too late.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,674
7,170
136
How many of you have voted for those running for president who were not from one of the 2 main parties? My wife and I have, several times. Libertarian, green and Perot's Reform party back in '92. I have also voted for both Democrats and Republicans, depending on what my research has told me about the particular candidates.

I don't feel that either of the two main parties is very close to my personal beliefs. Libertarian is probably closest. I have a Bachelor's degree in Environmental Studies, and we do our part with composting, driving cars that get at least 40 mpg, capturing rainwater, and other choices we make to minimize our environmental impact.

However, I've also seen the other side of the coin. Most of my relatives are farmers. One local government agency told my uncle that he had to set aside a certain lowland area of his property, telling him to plant a certain type of shrub there. He did so, at considerable time and expense. In less than 6 months, another government agency came through and destroyed the entire planting, putting in drainage for the township.

It was an example of how stupidly government is organized, and how they put things into effect without communicating with each other. It reinforced my thought that a lot of government regulations and programs are wasteful and ineffectively run.

Yes, I'm a gun rights advocate. I believe that just about everyone should be able to own and use a gun for hunting or target practice. Both sets of my grandparents had guns. My dad has a couple of guns. Personally, so far I only have a BB gun that we use with the kids for target practice when we go camping.

I'm also one of those rare environmentalists who feel that next generation nuclear needs to be a big part of decreasing the amount of carbon dioxide we are putting into the atmosphere. Nuclear is natural/green, and natural nuclear reactions have been happening within the earth's crust for eons, heating water naturally.

So yeah, I'm an environmentalist who is for nuclear power, gun rights, and I have a libertarian worldview. I also don't believe that our country's founders would have supported us having a permanent, standing military force, and that doing so makes it more likely that we end up more in debt, involved in overseas struggles.


Thanks for your reply. I own guns too, I just don't make an issue of it like you do with that avatar of yours. I'm also an environmentalist that respects, loves and appreciates what nature has provided for me in the way of sustenance, clean fresh air and the climate I live in here in Hawaii. I hunt birds, I hunt deer and pig and goat, I hook fish from shore and boat and go diving for variety (try hooking a lobster or octopus) . And every time I bag game I thank nature for providing all of that for me. I am as close to nature in ways that other folks might not understand. I just don't wear it on my head, collar and sleeves.

I'm an animal behaviorist that appreciates the flora and fauna around me and how they all interconnect in harmony with each other. It's a truly amazing thing to behold that I appreciate dearly and wish it to exist for the generations that follow after me.

So apart from how we view our politics, it looks like we have a lot in common. Good to know that.
 
Reactions: Drach

SmCaudata

Senior member
Oct 8, 2006
969
1,532
136
.

So yeah, I'm an environmentalist who is for nuclear power, gun rights, and I have a libertarian worldview. I also don't believe that our country's founders would have supported us having a permanent, standing military force, and that doing so makes it more likely that we end up more in debt, involved in overseas struggles.

First, yes, I've voted for a third party. In college I liked that Nader was more strongly pro worker. I believed that it was important at the time. I was also in a strongly democratic state. I think we can all agree that we'd be in a better place of people in Florida didn't have Nader as an option at the time.

Now to your other comments.
Libertarianism will not lead to environmental change. You know that, or at least you should. Strong policies forcing change on a global scale are needed. Anything less is rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

I agree with you that both parties overfund the military, but I think not having one is clearly not safe with the likes of Russia, China, and North Korea. Truly bowing out of international politics is only an option if all other world leaders have the same view and aren't authoritarian warlords.

As to the second ammendment, you talk of hunting and target practice. Neither party is restricting this. The dems want universal background checks and some policies that may limit access for those that should own guns like men that are domestic abusers.

Your described ideals line up with democratic world view and policies more than Republicans. I don't understand why you would ever vote for a republican (at least post Nixon) with your espoused beliefs.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
29,292
136
First, yes, I've voted for a third party. In college I liked that Nader was more strongly pro worker. I believed that it was important at the time. I was also in a strongly democratic state. I think we can all agree that we'd be in a better place of people in Florida didn't have Nader as an option at the time.

Now to your other comments.
Libertarianism will not lead to environmental change. You know that, or at least you should. Strong policies forcing change on a global scale are needed. Anything less is rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

I agree with you that both parties overfund the military, but I think not having one is clearly not safe with the likes of Russia, China, and North Korea. Truly bowing out of international politics is only an option if all other world leaders have the same view and aren't authoritarian warlords.

As to the second ammendment, you talk of hunting and target practice. Neither party is restricting this. The dems want universal background checks and some policies that may limit access for those that should own guns like men that are domestic abusers.

Your described ideals line up with democratic world view and policies more than Republicans. I don't understand why you would ever vote for a republican (at least post Nixon) with your espoused beliefs.
You don't understand? Biden keeps pulling the lever in his office that makes gas prices go up. Someone has to stop the madness.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,537
12,844
136
How many of you have voted for those running for president who were not from one of the 2 main parties? My wife and I have, several times. Libertarian, green and Perot's Reform party back in '92. I have also voted for both Democrats and Republicans, depending on what my research has told me about the particular candidates.
2020 marks the first time I ever voted for one of the 2 main party candidates.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,371
4,625
136
2020 marks the first time I ever voted for one of the 2 main party candidates.

But I don’t get the logic of voting for a 3rd candidate with the electoral college? As if Jill Stein would have got 270 EC.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,537
12,844
136
But I don’t get the logic of voting for a 3rd candidate with the electoral college? As if Jill Stein would have got 270 EC.
What if you live in one of the reddest of the red states? Not much point voting for the DNC candidate either.
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
7,578
3,123
136
Speaking of flags. This guy...


The Minnesota Court of Appeals said Monday that a Wright County man was denied his free speech rights when he was fined for flying a huge Donald Trump flag from atop a 150-foot-tall crane.

The court reversed a finding by the Buffalo City Council, which had said in spring 2021 that Jay A. Johnson's 30- by 50-foot flag that read "TRUMP 2020 Keep America Great" violated the sign ordinance for its excessive size and being installed on property without a permit.

Johnson, whose property in Wright County provides storage for his Johnsonville LLC construction business, should have been allowed to fly his flag because the city ordinance does not apply to noncommercial speech, the court said in its ruling for reversal of the council's actions.

Further, the court ruling continued, "we conclude that the ordinance impermissibly creates a content-based regulation of speech, and [we] reverse the city's decision to impose administrative penalties against Johnsonville. [The] penalties imposed by the city are based on an erroneous theory of law and must be reversed."

Johnson's attorney, Aaron Dean, said Monday that "we are very thankful for the ruling by the Court of Appeals. We believe one of the bedrock foundations in this country is you can't publicly punish someone for their political speech. … We are hopeful that the appellate ruling will allow the mayor and the City Council to reconsider the harassment of Jay Johnson, his family and his company."

An attorney for the city did not return a message Monday seeking a response to the appellate court's ruling.

Dean would not hazard a guess about whether the city would ask the state Supreme Court to hear the case. "We hope the city and Mr. Johnson can meet and come to a compromise."

Since the council acted against Johnson's Trump flag display, the city fined him $600 at the outset. Also, Johnson said Monday he's been fined and continues to be fined $200 a day since September for replacing the crane with a 189-foot-tall flag pole that flies the American flag.

During a City Council meeting in May 2021, City Attorney Susan Dege defended the actions against Johnson, saying, "There are free speech rights, however, the Supreme Court has analyzed in several cases what a city can do. The city can't focus on a message … but what the city can do is regulate the time, place and manner of when signage is allowed."

At that same council meeting, Johnson pledged he would take his flag fight to court, and "I'm going to win. I don't want to do that, but, if I have to, I will."

The flag went up before the 2020 presidential campaign on a crane bought specifically for that purpose, Johnson said. After Democratic challenger Joe Biden was declared the winner over the Republican incumbent, police came by and told Johnson he had 10 days to take the political sign down, he recalled in an interview Monday.

"I told them, 'You know, the election ain't quite over. Can you call Pennsylvania and Georgia and tell them to hurry up with the election [results], so I can take the flag down?' " Johnson said. "They didn't find that too funny."

Johnson, who lives in nearby Montrose, did remove the flag but soon reconsidered and had it flying anew by April 2021, he said, recalling a gesture of support coming his way soon afterward.

"A woman drove up, and I stopped her," Johnson said. "She was crying. She rolled the window down and said, 'Thank you for putting that flag back up. It gives me hope.' "

At other times in 2021, Johnson flew an even-larger Trump/JFK Jr. flag atop the crane. Asked why the name of John F. Kennedy Jr., who died in a plane crash in 1999, was included with the former president's, Johnson echoed the belief of some far-right conspirators and said, "He's the vice president. You haven't seen his body, correct? Well, I didn't see it."

Buoyed by the court's ruling in his favor, the 55-year-old Johnson said he intends to raise a Trump flag within the next two weeks and is planning an event to mark its return.

"We all owe a debt of gratitude to Jay Johnson for having the courage and the grit to withstand public ridicule in his own town," Dean said, "and to incur significant legal fees to fight for what is right."
 
Reactions: iRONic

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,537
12,844
136
The guy bought a crane specifically to fly his cult flag?
Yep, totally normal political discourse, and healthy admiration of a political figure.
 
Reactions: hal2kilo

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,505
27,801
136
The neighbor’s stars and bars are hanging on by a corner now. When it blows away I expect a news story about how BLM stole his flag.

The night they drove old Dixie down…
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
7,578
3,123
136
The guy bought a crane specifically to fly his cult flag?
Yep, totally normal political discourse, and healthy admiration of a political figure.
It blows my mind. I think these people believe that it is normal behavior when its actually trashy.
 
Reactions: hal2kilo

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,371
4,625
136
It blows my mind. I think these people believe that it is normal behavior when its actually trashy.
But it confuses other nationalities around the world how “patriotism” is this obsession of flag display.
 
Reactions: hal2kilo
Dec 10, 2005
24,420
7,335
136
If you cared at all about the environment you would have voted Democrat against every single GOP candidate you have ever been able to vote against. Full stop. What you do in your personal life will have zero impact on the environment. Now it is too late. We could cut emissions to zero today and it's still too late.
I wouldn't completely discount personal choices when it comes to the environment, as choices people publicly make can influence their own local circles and helps to publicly show that you can live a normal life while being environmentally conscious; and many choices we make can have small impacts on our own life, but large impacts in aggregate. However, government-level action is also desperately needed because the world is filled with too many self-centered asshats, and anyone voting R in the last 30 years claiming they care about the environment is basically lying to themselves about what they really care about.
 
Reactions: dank69

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,371
4,625
136
Larry Hogan is one of the rare exceptions in the GOP. I can actually say I respect him.
But like people that voted 3rd party, why did Hogan and other Republicans that wrote in a candidate instead of Biden? Like how dumb are you to take the risk of the orange monkey winning just because they refused to vote D.
 
Reactions: dank69

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,674
7,170
136
I wonder how many death threats he's going to get.


Death threats will be proportional to how well Hogan is doing wrt his ratings vs how badly Trump and his cult 'droids are doing in polling leading up to November's election cycle.
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,539
3,461
136
How many of you have voted for those running for president who were not from one of the 2 main parties? My wife and I have, several times. Libertarian, green and Perot's Reform party back in '92. I have also voted for both Democrats and Republicans, depending on what my research has told me about the particular candidates.

I don't feel that either of the two main parties is very close to my personal beliefs. Libertarian is probably closest. I have a Bachelor's degree in Environmental Studies, and we do our part with composting, driving cars that get at least 40 mpg, capturing rainwater, and other choices we make to minimize our environmental impact.

However, I've also seen the other side of the coin. Most of my relatives are farmers. One local government agency told my uncle that he had to set aside a certain lowland area of his property, telling him to plant a certain type of shrub there. He did so, at considerable time and expense. In less than 6 months, another government agency came through and destroyed the entire planting, putting in drainage for the township.

It was an example of how stupidly government is organized, and how they put things into effect without communicating with each other. It reinforced my thought that a lot of government regulations and programs are wasteful and ineffectively run.

Yes, I'm a gun rights advocate. I believe that just about everyone should be able to own and use a gun for hunting or target practice. Both sets of my grandparents had guns. My dad has a couple of guns. Personally, so far I only have a BB gun that we use with the kids for target practice when we go camping.

I'm also one of those rare environmentalists who feel that next generation nuclear needs to be a big part of decreasing the amount of carbon dioxide we are putting into the atmosphere. Nuclear is natural/green, and natural nuclear reactions have been happening within the earth's crust for eons, heating water naturally.

So yeah, I'm an environmentalist who is for nuclear power, gun rights, and I have a libertarian worldview. I also don't believe that our country's founders would have supported us having a permanent, standing military force, and that doing so makes it more likely that we end up more in debt, involved in overseas struggles.

Congratulations, you are a liberal through and through.
 
Reactions: iRONic
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