We really have no business driving SUVs

[SparkyJJO]

Troll thread. Don't feed the trolls :disgust:

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: rh71
^ seriously who are you to say "at least it's being used" and deem it necessary? Should everyone stop, get out, and explain to you why they have one? You don't know jack about the SUV you were driving behind this morning. Should I bitch & moan about my neighbors who have a pool and never use it? How about the size of their house when there's only 2 people in it? What exactly is the word I'm looking for? I know it can't be jealousy that people think others shouldn't have what they do... what's the word here??? I'm at a loss for this phenomenon.

Save trees, you don't really need that plywood, do you?

Hell, everyone stop buying cars every 2-3 years while we're at it... these things last much longer than that. What a waste of resources. :roll:

Pale Rider's post justified his own vehicle usage. It's not for me or anyone else to suggest what that might be. I guess it was
refreshing to this type of vehicle used for it's intended purpose instead of an ego-inflation tool that fetches groceries. Disgust
with waste is a completely different animal then jealousy, OK?.

I'd like this finally answered - hopefully by the latest to actually use the phrase. What exactly is ego-inflating about SUVs, exclusively? What is this perception all about and why do non-owners keep bringing it up?

 

[Pariah]

Because someone posted this earlier in the thread:

"You care... you're just jealous you can't afford a more expensive vehicle so you justify your purchase of a Mazda by spiting everyone who drives a bigger car.

I knew gas prices were going to go up when I bought it and it didn't stop me then. Maybe I'll get another SUV when my lease is up just for you. "

 

[TheEarthWillShake]

That's what makes America so great. You can drive a huge gas guzzling SUV to work by yourself 50 miles away. It's called FREEDOM!!!

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: Pariah
Because someone posted this earlier in the thread:

"You care... you're just jealous you can't afford a more expensive vehicle so you justify your purchase of a Mazda by spiting everyone who drives a bigger car.

I knew gas prices were going to go up when I bought it and it didn't stop me then. Maybe I'll get another SUV when my lease is up just for you. "

That first quote is stupidly wrong so I'll skip to the 2nd.

So what you're getting at is SUV owners are egotistical because they tend to go on not caring about filling their gas guzzlers? What about when gas was cheaper - like $1.50/gal? Did anyone bitch about SUV owners then? I have a sneaking suspicion the answer is still yes.

And for that matter, I think anyone who needlessly spends $xx.xx on luxuries like beer and smokes are egotistical too. Why not? Makes perfect sense... they don't care they're spending more than others.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: munky
Meh... some people just have to learn things the hard way, like paying $100 for a fill up at the gas station. Granted, my G35 isn't exactly a fuel sipper either, but it's sure a lot more fun to drive.

"Fun to drive" is a subjective thing. I'm sure that the G35 is much more fun for you, but it's entirely possible that, to someone else, an old Ford Bronco is more fun than the G35.

ZV

oh heavens yes I wouldn't trade my 95 Ford Bronco for anything. And it probably makes 8mpg at best downhill

 

[thomsbrain]

I won't argue that there aren't a few dozen people in the States who actually need a 8,000 lb curb weight heavy-duty truck. If you haul gravel all day or have a 30 foot yacht, you need something with juice to get it around. But I think my point was more that your run-of-the-mill F-150 or Explorer owner probably isn't doing anything that they couldn't do with a wagon, because those vehicles don't have capabilities that significantly exceed that of a normal car.

Originally posted by: mooseracing
It's called safety....any car can pull anything, that doesn't matter. What matters is being able to safley handle it and stop it. Cars can't, show me one that can handle a load a truck pulls.

The 1000 pounds I hauled around in my old Accord was all fit inside the vehicle, not towed. In a trailer, it obviously could have dealt with more weight, but it wasn't necessary because even though it was roughly the size of a modern Civic, it could carry as much with the seats down as... an SUV! And the wagon version of the Accord came with upgraded rear brakes and suspension to deal with heavier loads than the sedan.

With all the ridonkulous (pun intended) wheels on SUV's and trucks these days, the braking hardware employed on these modern "tough" trucks is displayed in all its flaccid glory for the world to see. You see beefier rotors on a WRX, and the car has 3,000 fewer pounds to stop even before you worry about the trailer or load.

How many miles are on that accord, if it did it day in and day out it won't last. This has been proven throughout history that cars don't stand up to a trucks work. Otherwise there would be more cars in fleets that get alot of abuse.

Again, if you haul gravel every day, you'll own a F-350 because it's your business to do it. But the kind of "abuse" that your average homeowner puts on his truck buying paint at Home Depot isn't anything a car can't handle just fine.

The Accord in question had around 225,000 miles when I sold it to a college kid who needed reliable transportation. It was an East Coast car with rust and 97K on the odometer when I got it. My first car in high school, it was abused in many a stupid stoplight "race," hauled all my possessions for several moves in college, ran on two cylinders with the other two completely exposed to the elements for 50 freeway miles once after a shitty-mechanic disaster, hauled landscaping materials for when I re-did my parent's yard between jobs (manure, bricks, stepping stones), and survived duty as my band's primary hauling vehicle for three years of worth of shows and practices before we broke up. It also commuted up and over a 2000 foot mountain pass from sea level twice a day for the last three years I owned it. I'd reckon it had a tougher life than most frame-on-bodies not owned by contractors and from the driver's seat, it still felt like new.

And I've got two words for you if you're worried about fleets that get abused: Crown Vic. 'Nuff said.

A FWD maiy be better with chains in less than 6" of snow, above that and an SUV/Truck that has ground clearence won't need chains. I've driven through over 2ft of snow with out chains, and only needed to go about 5mph to keep from getting stuck.

The snowplow has 4WD and chains on all four wheels. In CA, if the plows can't keep up, they just close the road and the point is moot. That's why no one else needs 4WD.

Zemmer says that it's unreasonable to expect a boat owner to have a commuter car for the daily stuff. I'd beg to differ. You spend $40,000 on your glorified F-150 and $40,000 on your glorified inner-tube puller with the kicking audio system, and you're telling me you can't afford a $5000 Corolla that pays for itself in six months compared to driving the truck? Even if you actually need the truck, it's still just plain dumb economics to drive one every day.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: hpkeeper

Originally posted by: senseamp

Bit trucks and SUVs are only safer at expense of others safety. They are not contributing to overall safety. Two Sierras colliding are not going to be safer for occupants than two Rabbits colliding, and I'd rather roll a Rabbit than have the weight of a GMC Sierra on top of me, especially since an SUV is more likely to roll in the first place.
Certainly most Americans don't care about anyone but themselves, which is why high gas prices are so precious. Economics is making people do what common sense couldn't. Sure there are still going to be people who can afford to drive trucks for daily driver, but they are going to be a minority, especially in the urban areas where I live. They are going back to the redneck vehicle status they had before the whole SUV and off roader craze. I hope you plan on keeping you SUV for a long time, or you are going to get hosed on trade in.

Well you got me... that's the full intention of my purpose in buying an SUV, I look for the trade in value( /sarcasm ). I don't know about you, but I buy my vehicle drive it. I couldn't care less about the trade value... and of course I plan on keeping my vehicle for a long time... which is why i WON'T get hosed in trade in because by the time I plan on trading it, my vehicles will owe me nothing... what I get for it beyond my payments is gravy in my opinion. I also don't like having a payment... so any time that my vehicle is running beyond my payments is also gravy.

MY safety is coming at MY expense... not the expense of others, are they making payments on my vehicle and I don't know it??? It's not my fault they opted to buy a smaller vehicle... their safety is at their own expense. You want to buy a small vehicle and get 40 miles to the gallon? that's fine, But you gamble with the inherent risk that someone bigger is going to clobber you in an accident.

Sierra vs. Sierra
Sierra vs. Rabbit
Rabbit vs. Rabbit
Rabbit vs. Sierra

I like my chances in the big vehicle all the way around. I'll take the wrinkle room over MPG.

So what if Statistically SUV's have a higher roll over rate?

I hear this point a lot...

is there a statistically higher death rate because SUV's rolls over more frequently? or...? I mean bring a little more substance to your point if you're going to bring it up.

*knock on wood* mine never has rolled, or even approached two wheels... Nor have I ever seen an SUV roll. So the statistics may be higher, but in the grand scheme of things I believe that statistic to be rather negiligible if you're a driver that isn't an idiot. I just choose to drive my vehicle more efficiently and not go 90 around a corner, I'm aware of my vehicles capabilities and generally try to stay within them. Bigger may not be better for fuel efficiency, but I'm still going to take my chances in the bigger vehicle with safety.

No, you are buying safety at expense of others' safety, not just your own fuel expense. An SUV is much more likely to kill occupants of another vehicle than a family car, due to higher bumpers, more weight, and more rigid structure. It is not a zero sum game. Thanks to these high gas prices, and I hope they go even higher, there are fewer and fewer of these dangerous vehicles on the roads. As far as me personally, a Mazda3 is a much safer car for my style of driving and the twisty roads I drive on than an SUV would be. Handling, braking, steering feel are of paramount importance for me, and for those, weight is the ultimate enemy, followed closely by high center of mass. Also, I don't experience a paranoia of being hit by another car, in fact I mostly commute on my bike. Ultimately when it's your time, it's your time, and it doesn't really matter what your tombstone says.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: TheEarthWillShake
That's what makes America so great. You can drive a huge gas guzzling SUV to work by yourself 50 miles away. It's called FREEDOM!!!

Really? In which countries is it illegal to drive an SUV to work?

 

[summit]

i have a 1994 suburban with a 60 gallon add-on tank. yeah i drive it to the 7-11 down the street.

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: TheEarthWillShake
That's what makes America so great. You can drive a huge gas guzzling SUV to work by yourself 50 miles away. It's called FREEDOM!!!

At least for now. The upcoming CAFE standards will
change a lot, also the fact that large trucks and SUV'S are selling so poorly that auto makers are re-tooling plants to
make sedans again..

 

[rh71]

^ it still won't be made illegal to own the ones people already have and will WANT to keep. People who want them, regardless of need, will still happily drive them. Nobody ever said SUV owners liked the low mpgs but it's a tradeoff some are very willing to make. Trade-off for convenience, trade-off for practicality in space and ability, trade-off for not having to come up with alternate solutions because your car is just too small this time or that time.

If the mandate creates more fuel efficient SUVs & the ever-popular crossovers, we all win. If not, we'll still have the same trade-off that we were comfortable with in the beginning. Those who never wanted them that bad will seek out econoboxes because that is simply their nature.

It's not that different from choosing to own a sports car in terms of efficiency. Except apparently there's no ego that goes with sports cars... of course not. :roll:

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Pariah
Because someone posted this earlier in the thread:

"You care... you're just jealous you can't afford a more expensive vehicle so you justify your purchase of a Mazda by spiting everyone who drives a bigger car.

I knew gas prices were going to go up when I bought it and it didn't stop me then. Maybe I'll get another SUV when my lease is up just for you. "

:laugh:MAO

I'm not sure who you're referring to but I don't own a Mazda, I own a 2003 Nissan Maxima and a 2006 Lexus IS, I also own two motorcycles and I own my house in coastal SoCal. My cars are big enough for my family of three, one of them is paid for and the other is almost paid for.

My daily commute is 20 miles round trip so I ride my bicycle to work sometimes, not because I can't afford gas, but because I enjoy it.

Buy whatever you want. I'm not calling for the ban of SUVs, I'm just glad they're dying like the dinosaurs they are.

 

[hpkeeper]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: hpkeeper

Originally posted by: senseamp

Bit trucks and SUVs are only safer at expense of others safety. They are not contributing to overall safety. Two Sierras colliding are not going to be safer for occupants than two Rabbits colliding, and I'd rather roll a Rabbit than have the weight of a GMC Sierra on top of me, especially since an SUV is more likely to roll in the first place.
Certainly most Americans don't care about anyone but themselves, which is why high gas prices are so precious. Economics is making people do what common sense couldn't. Sure there are still going to be people who can afford to drive trucks for daily driver, but they are going to be a minority, especially in the urban areas where I live. They are going back to the redneck vehicle status they had before the whole SUV and off roader craze. I hope you plan on keeping you SUV for a long time, or you are going to get hosed on trade in.

Well you got me... that's the full intention of my purpose in buying an SUV, I look for the trade in value( /sarcasm ). I don't know about you, but I buy my vehicle drive it. I couldn't care less about the trade value... and of course I plan on keeping my vehicle for a long time... which is why i WON'T get hosed in trade in because by the time I plan on trading it, my vehicles will owe me nothing... what I get for it beyond my payments is gravy in my opinion. I also don't like having a payment... so any time that my vehicle is running beyond my payments is also gravy.

MY safety is coming at MY expense... not the expense of others, are they making payments on my vehicle and I don't know it??? It's not my fault they opted to buy a smaller vehicle... their safety is at their own expense. You want to buy a small vehicle and get 40 miles to the gallon? that's fine, But you gamble with the inherent risk that someone bigger is going to clobber you in an accident.

Sierra vs. Sierra
Sierra vs. Rabbit
Rabbit vs. Rabbit
Rabbit vs. Sierra

I like my chances in the big vehicle all the way around. I'll take the wrinkle room over MPG.

So what if Statistically SUV's have a higher roll over rate?

I hear this point a lot...

is there a statistically higher death rate because SUV's rolls over more frequently? or...? I mean bring a little more substance to your point if you're going to bring it up.

*knock on wood* mine never has rolled, or even approached two wheels... Nor have I ever seen an SUV roll. So the statistics may be higher, but in the grand scheme of things I believe that statistic to be rather negiligible if you're a driver that isn't an idiot. I just choose to drive my vehicle more efficiently and not go 90 around a corner, I'm aware of my vehicles capabilities and generally try to stay within them. Bigger may not be better for fuel efficiency, but I'm still going to take my chances in the bigger vehicle with safety.

No, you are buying safety at expense of others' safety, not just your own fuel expense. An SUV is much more likely to kill occupants of another vehicle than a family car, due to higher bumpers, more weight, and more rigid structure. It is not a zero sum game. Thanks to these high gas prices, and I hope they go even higher, there are fewer and fewer of these dangerous vehicles on the roads. As far as me personally, a Mazda3 is a much safer car for my style of driving and the twisty roads I drive on than an SUV would be. Handling, braking, steering feel are of paramount importance for me, and for those, weight is the ultimate enemy, followed closely by high center of mass. Also, I don't experience a paranoia of being hit by another car, in fact I mostly commute on my bike. Ultimately when it's your time, it's your time, and it doesn't really matter what your tombstone says.

Evidently I'm missing the point here. I don't get how it's everyone elses expense for me to drive an SUV that I deem more safe, as opposed to their lack of expense. Sure not everyone can own an SUV or afford one. But again, that's not my problem that cars don't have higher bumpers.

Like I said, you incurred the risk of someone bigger coming along and smashing their bumper through your driver side window when you bought your car... the risk was inherant.

If you stay true to your "When it's your time, it's your time" statement. .. then who cares if it's an SUV that rolls on you or puts a bumper through your window? it was evidently suppose to happen that way anyways.

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain


, it could carry as much with the seats down as... an SUV!

What SUV, a small car suv or an Excursion? Or even a 4 door Tahoe, i find a car lacking in space compared to that with the seats folded down in the Tahoe.

You see beefier rotors on a WRX, and the car has 3,000 fewer pounds to stop even before you worry about the trailer or load.

I don't see anything wrong with 16's, but I don't understand the movement to larger sizes (factory installed). I haven't done any testing though to see how well they handle loads. I do find it hard to believe a stock rotor from a WRX is comparable to a half ton. IIRC my 85 F150 has around 9-11" diameter. But I am running different rotors mentioned below, diffferent MC, and different rear wheel cylinders.

thats only part of the equation, it also has to do with the clamping force of the caliper. Sad to say, a '70's Thunderbird caliper has more clamping force than a F350 of the mid 90's. Albeit ~ .1 sq/in more (iirc could be ft/lbs). I would love to find more relavant info to newer vehicles though.

The snowplow has 4WD and chains on all four wheels. In CA, if the plows can't keep up, they just close the road and the point is moot. That's why no one else needs 4WD.

County Dump truck tandem axle plow or a pickup plow truck?

They don't close the roads around me or even in the UP of Michigan when there is deep snow. If there is an emergency and I have to get to the hospital and it's that bad I'm glad I can.

Other than that I enjoy plowing with my truck, going on recovery, and blasting through 3-4ft of snow in the winter.

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: TheEarthWillShake
That's what makes America so great. You can drive a huge gas guzzling SUV to work by yourself 50 miles away. It's called FREEDOM!!!

At least for now. The upcoming CAFE standards will
change a lot, also the fact that large trucks and SUV'S are selling so poorly that auto makers are re-tooling plants to
make sedans again..

CAFE is a joke. Trucks are suppose to get around 23mpg now, about the only ones doing that are the Diesels. They are as bad as the EPA MPG.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: hpkeeper

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: hpkeeper

Originally posted by: senseamp

Bit trucks and SUVs are only safer at expense of others safety. They are not contributing to overall safety. Two Sierras colliding are not going to be safer for occupants than two Rabbits colliding, and I'd rather roll a Rabbit than have the weight of a GMC Sierra on top of me, especially since an SUV is more likely to roll in the first place.
Certainly most Americans don't care about anyone but themselves, which is why high gas prices are so precious. Economics is making people do what common sense couldn't. Sure there are still going to be people who can afford to drive trucks for daily driver, but they are going to be a minority, especially in the urban areas where I live. They are going back to the redneck vehicle status they had before the whole SUV and off roader craze. I hope you plan on keeping you SUV for a long time, or you are going to get hosed on trade in.

Well you got me... that's the full intention of my purpose in buying an SUV, I look for the trade in value( /sarcasm ). I don't know about you, but I buy my vehicle drive it. I couldn't care less about the trade value... and of course I plan on keeping my vehicle for a long time... which is why i WON'T get hosed in trade in because by the time I plan on trading it, my vehicles will owe me nothing... what I get for it beyond my payments is gravy in my opinion. I also don't like having a payment... so any time that my vehicle is running beyond my payments is also gravy.

MY safety is coming at MY expense... not the expense of others, are they making payments on my vehicle and I don't know it??? It's not my fault they opted to buy a smaller vehicle... their safety is at their own expense. You want to buy a small vehicle and get 40 miles to the gallon? that's fine, But you gamble with the inherent risk that someone bigger is going to clobber you in an accident.

Sierra vs. Sierra
Sierra vs. Rabbit
Rabbit vs. Rabbit
Rabbit vs. Sierra

I like my chances in the big vehicle all the way around. I'll take the wrinkle room over MPG.

So what if Statistically SUV's have a higher roll over rate?

I hear this point a lot...

is there a statistically higher death rate because SUV's rolls over more frequently? or...? I mean bring a little more substance to your point if you're going to bring it up.

*knock on wood* mine never has rolled, or even approached two wheels... Nor have I ever seen an SUV roll. So the statistics may be higher, but in the grand scheme of things I believe that statistic to be rather negiligible if you're a driver that isn't an idiot. I just choose to drive my vehicle more efficiently and not go 90 around a corner, I'm aware of my vehicles capabilities and generally try to stay within them. Bigger may not be better for fuel efficiency, but I'm still going to take my chances in the bigger vehicle with safety.

No, you are buying safety at expense of others' safety, not just your own fuel expense. An SUV is much more likely to kill occupants of another vehicle than a family car, due to higher bumpers, more weight, and more rigid structure. It is not a zero sum game. Thanks to these high gas prices, and I hope they go even higher, there are fewer and fewer of these dangerous vehicles on the roads. As far as me personally, a Mazda3 is a much safer car for my style of driving and the twisty roads I drive on than an SUV would be. Handling, braking, steering feel are of paramount importance for me, and for those, weight is the ultimate enemy, followed closely by high center of mass. Also, I don't experience a paranoia of being hit by another car, in fact I mostly commute on my bike. Ultimately when it's your time, it's your time, and it doesn't really matter what your tombstone says.

Evidently I'm missing the point here. I don't get how it's everyone elses expense for me to drive an SUV that I deem more safe, as opposed to their lack of expense. Sure not everyone can own an SUV or afford one. But again, that's not my problem that cars don't have higher bumpers.

Like I said, you incurred the risk of someone bigger coming along and smashing their bumper through your driver side window when you bought your car... the risk was inherant.

If you stay true to your "When it's your time, it's your time" statement. .. then who cares if it's an SUV that rolls on you or puts a bumper through your window? it was evidently suppose to happen that way anyways.

Dumb argument. You are essentially saying I should buy a car with a similar height or higher bumper to be safe. OK, now my bumper is 18 inches higher than yours. Your move.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: hpkeeper

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: hpkeeper

Originally posted by: senseamp

Bit trucks and SUVs are only safer at expense of others safety. They are not contributing to overall safety. Two Sierras colliding are not going to be safer for occupants than two Rabbits colliding, and I'd rather roll a Rabbit than have the weight of a GMC Sierra on top of me, especially since an SUV is more likely to roll in the first place.
Certainly most Americans don't care about anyone but themselves, which is why high gas prices are so precious. Economics is making people do what common sense couldn't. Sure there are still going to be people who can afford to drive trucks for daily driver, but they are going to be a minority, especially in the urban areas where I live. They are going back to the redneck vehicle status they had before the whole SUV and off roader craze. I hope you plan on keeping you SUV for a long time, or you are going to get hosed on trade in.

Well you got me... that's the full intention of my purpose in buying an SUV, I look for the trade in value( /sarcasm ). I don't know about you, but I buy my vehicle drive it. I couldn't care less about the trade value... and of course I plan on keeping my vehicle for a long time... which is why i WON'T get hosed in trade in because by the time I plan on trading it, my vehicles will owe me nothing... what I get for it beyond my payments is gravy in my opinion. I also don't like having a payment... so any time that my vehicle is running beyond my payments is also gravy.

MY safety is coming at MY expense... not the expense of others, are they making payments on my vehicle and I don't know it??? It's not my fault they opted to buy a smaller vehicle... their safety is at their own expense. You want to buy a small vehicle and get 40 miles to the gallon? that's fine, But you gamble with the inherent risk that someone bigger is going to clobber you in an accident.

Sierra vs. Sierra
Sierra vs. Rabbit
Rabbit vs. Rabbit
Rabbit vs. Sierra

I like my chances in the big vehicle all the way around. I'll take the wrinkle room over MPG.

So what if Statistically SUV's have a higher roll over rate?

I hear this point a lot...

is there a statistically higher death rate because SUV's rolls over more frequently? or...? I mean bring a little more substance to your point if you're going to bring it up.

*knock on wood* mine never has rolled, or even approached two wheels... Nor have I ever seen an SUV roll. So the statistics may be higher, but in the grand scheme of things I believe that statistic to be rather negiligible if you're a driver that isn't an idiot. I just choose to drive my vehicle more efficiently and not go 90 around a corner, I'm aware of my vehicles capabilities and generally try to stay within them. Bigger may not be better for fuel efficiency, but I'm still going to take my chances in the bigger vehicle with safety.

No, you are buying safety at expense of others' safety, not just your own fuel expense. An SUV is much more likely to kill occupants of another vehicle than a family car, due to higher bumpers, more weight, and more rigid structure. It is not a zero sum game. Thanks to these high gas prices, and I hope they go even higher, there are fewer and fewer of these dangerous vehicles on the roads. As far as me personally, a Mazda3 is a much safer car for my style of driving and the twisty roads I drive on than an SUV would be. Handling, braking, steering feel are of paramount importance for me, and for those, weight is the ultimate enemy, followed closely by high center of mass. Also, I don't experience a paranoia of being hit by another car, in fact I mostly commute on my bike. Ultimately when it's your time, it's your time, and it doesn't really matter what your tombstone says.

Evidently I'm missing the point here.

No sh!t, Sherlock

I don't get how it's everyone elses expense for me to drive an SUV that I deem more safe, as opposed to their lack of expense.

There is a lot of stuff you don't get. Your choice does not just increase your safety, it reduces everyone else's safety

Sure not everyone can own an SUV or afford one. But again, that's not my problem that cars don't have higher bumpers.

Of course it's not, and of course the world revolves around you

Like I said, you incurred the risk of someone bigger coming along and smashing their bumper through your driver side window when you bought your car... the risk was inherant.

Doesn't mean increasing it is the way to go

If you stay true to your "When it's your time, it's your time" statement. .. then who cares if it's an SUV that rolls on you or puts a bumper through your window? it was evidently suppose to happen that way anyways.

Well, I don't drive an SUV, so it's not gonna roll on me. It may roll on you. Then might enjoy all that extra weight that was supposed to keep you safe squishing you. As far as being hit by an SUV, yeah, no point worrying about it, if it happens, it happens. Doesn't mean it's a good thing, but you can't let it impact your life.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Pale Rider

Originally posted by: senseamp


You can't go riding with three friends and 4 dogs in a 5 seater SUV either, Einstein.

Sure you can.

Two bikes on the roof rack, two bikes attached to the tailgate, four seats for four people, two dogs in the remaining seat and two dogs in the cargo area.

So how is that different than a Mazda3 or Jetta Wagon? It has same split folding seats and same sized cargo area as a 5 seater SUV.

 

[hpkeeper]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: hpkeeper
Evidently I'm missing the point here.

No sh!t, Sherlock

Originally posted by: hpkeeper
I don't get how it's everyone elses expense for me to drive an SUV that I deem more safe, as opposed to their lack of expense.

There is a lot of stuff you don't get. Your choice does not just increase your safety, it reduces everyone else's safety

Originally posted by: hpkeeper
Sure not everyone can own an SUV or afford one. But again, that's not my problem that cars don't have higher bumpers.

Of course it's not, and of course the world revolves around you[/quote]

Don't be bitter with me because you're wrong.

Originally posted by: hpkeeper
Like I said, you incurred the risk of someone bigger coming along and smashing their bumper through your driver side window when you bought your car... the risk was inherant.

Doesn't mean increasing it is the way to go

Sure it does. Just because you carry the inherant risk of getting a thump upside the head by someones bumper doesn't meanthey should sacrifice their ability not to have that same scenario in theirs. You choose to stay low to the ground. I choose to stay higher up. You could easily be that high in the air as well... why am I less responsible and a worse driver because I choose to have a vehicle that is bigger than the one you chose to be? Conform to YOUR ideals? everyone else is inconsiderate because of the vehicle YOU drive is smaller? That's not our problem, it's yours. You want to feel safe in your vehicle? Get a bigger vehicle. Plain and simple. It's not our responsibility to compensate for the money you're not willing to spend. If you can't afford it, then you just have to deal with it.
You need to explain to me how it's my responsibility to purchase a vehicle that doesn't suit my needs or wants simply because of your needs and wants.

]Originally posted by: hpkeeperIf you stay true to your "When it's your time, it's your time" statement. .. then who cares if it's an SUV that rolls on you or puts a bumper through your window? it was evidently suppose to happen that way anyways.

Well, I don't drive an SUV, so it's not gonna roll on me. It may roll on you. Then might enjoy all that extra weight that was supposed to keep you safe squishing you. As far as being hit by an SUV, yeah, no point worrying about it, if it happens, it happens. Doesn't mean it's a good thing, but you can't let it impact your life.

You gain gas milage and sacrifice size. I get size and "safety" (in your opinion) and sacrifice milage. As I said, I've never rolled any SUV or truck i've owned... doesn't mean it won't happen, but again roll over rates aren't directly proportional to death rates in a roll over crash. I take my risks with roll over rates, just like you do with getting a bumper through your driver side window.... but then again I'm not whinning about how my vehicles safety is affected by the vehicles around me, if anything I'm gloating about it.

Get over it.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: mooseracing
CAFE is a joke. Trucks are suppose to get around 23mpg now, about the only ones doing that are the Diesels. They are as bad as the EPA MPG.

CAFE doesn't have much to do with real world observations. sure, a measurement is taken as a baseline, but it's just a car on a dyno. that number is then taken and various formula are applied to it until a final figure is reached. for example, getting a vehicle E85 rated results in a huge CAFE boost, despite the fact that a) almost no one actually buys E85, and b) E85 usually results in lower miles per gallon.

further, anything with a flat load floor counts as a truck for CAFE. seats fold down in the back of the wagon? it's a truck.

so, believe it or not, the CAFE standard is actually met by most manufacturers.

Get a bigger vehicle. Plain and simple.

ah, the race to the bottom

 

[hpkeeper]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: hpkeeper

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: hpkeeper

Originally posted by: senseamp

Bit trucks and SUVs are only safer at expense of others safety. They are not contributing to overall safety. Two Sierras colliding are not going to be safer for occupants than two Rabbits colliding, and I'd rather roll a Rabbit than have the weight of a GMC Sierra on top of me, especially since an SUV is more likely to roll in the first place.
Certainly most Americans don't care about anyone but themselves, which is why high gas prices are so precious. Economics is making people do what common sense couldn't. Sure there are still going to be people who can afford to drive trucks for daily driver, but they are going to be a minority, especially in the urban areas where I live. They are going back to the redneck vehicle status they had before the whole SUV and off roader craze. I hope you plan on keeping you SUV for a long time, or you are going to get hosed on trade in.

Well you got me... that's the full intention of my purpose in buying an SUV, I look for the trade in value( /sarcasm ). I don't know about you, but I buy my vehicle drive it. I couldn't care less about the trade value... and of course I plan on keeping my vehicle for a long time... which is why i WON'T get hosed in trade in because by the time I plan on trading it, my vehicles will owe me nothing... what I get for it beyond my payments is gravy in my opinion. I also don't like having a payment... so any time that my vehicle is running beyond my payments is also gravy.

MY safety is coming at MY expense... not the expense of others, are they making payments on my vehicle and I don't know it??? It's not my fault they opted to buy a smaller vehicle... their safety is at their own expense. You want to buy a small vehicle and get 40 miles to the gallon? that's fine, But you gamble with the inherent risk that someone bigger is going to clobber you in an accident.

Sierra vs. Sierra
Sierra vs. Rabbit
Rabbit vs. Rabbit
Rabbit vs. Sierra

I like my chances in the big vehicle all the way around. I'll take the wrinkle room over MPG.

So what if Statistically SUV's have a higher roll over rate?

I hear this point a lot...

is there a statistically higher death rate because SUV's rolls over more frequently? or...? I mean bring a little more substance to your point if you're going to bring it up.

*knock on wood* mine never has rolled, or even approached two wheels... Nor have I ever seen an SUV roll. So the statistics may be higher, but in the grand scheme of things I believe that statistic to be rather negiligible if you're a driver that isn't an idiot. I just choose to drive my vehicle more efficiently and not go 90 around a corner, I'm aware of my vehicles capabilities and generally try to stay within them. Bigger may not be better for fuel efficiency, but I'm still going to take my chances in the bigger vehicle with safety.

No, you are buying safety at expense of others' safety, not just your own fuel expense. An SUV is much more likely to kill occupants of another vehicle than a family car, due to higher bumpers, more weight, and more rigid structure. It is not a zero sum game. Thanks to these high gas prices, and I hope they go even higher, there are fewer and fewer of these dangerous vehicles on the roads. As far as me personally, a Mazda3 is a much safer car for my style of driving and the twisty roads I drive on than an SUV would be. Handling, braking, steering feel are of paramount importance for me, and for those, weight is the ultimate enemy, followed closely by high center of mass. Also, I don't experience a paranoia of being hit by another car, in fact I mostly commute on my bike. Ultimately when it's your time, it's your time, and it doesn't really matter what your tombstone says.

Evidently I'm missing the point here. I don't get how it's everyone elses expense for me to drive an SUV that I deem more safe, as opposed to their lack of expense. Sure not everyone can own an SUV or afford one. But again, that's not my problem that cars don't have higher bumpers.

Like I said, you incurred the risk of someone bigger coming along and smashing their bumper through your driver side window when you bought your car... the risk was inherant.

If you stay true to your "When it's your time, it's your time" statement. .. then who cares if it's an SUV that rolls on you or puts a bumper through your window? it was evidently suppose to happen that way anyways.

Dumb argument. You are essentially saying I should buy a car with a similar height or higher bumper to be safe. OK, now my bumper is 18 inches higher than yours. Your move.

No, I'm saying if you want to bring up the point about safety being an issue with larger vehicles, you should have thought about that when purchasing your small one. Whinning that everyone else is bigger is a moot point, you chose your small vehicle just like I chose my large one.

There are inherant risks to both vehicles. I don't blame you for having a small vehicle that is less likely to roll over, so you should get one that is more likely to roll over so we can be equally safe. So why is the point being brought up that I should drive smaller vehicle because it's less safe for people that drive smaller vehicles by those who drive larger ones?

I chose 'safety' over gas milage. It's not my problem that your car is smaller. I had an inherant risk in that gas prices may go up when I bought my large poorly fuel efficient vehicle when I purhased it. Just like you had the inherant risk that a larger car may clobber your smaller one. It's my cross to bear, as is yours to you.

 

[SparkyJJO]

For those of you complaining about SUVs being "unsafe" for the rest of you, think of it this way. If everyone had these little lunchbox cars, there would still be larger vehicles around for hauling stuff. I somehow doubt the semi will go away any time soon, it only is the primary means of goods transportation after all. So you could still even more easily now get flattened by one of those.

And if you worry you'll get flattened by an SUV, you worry too much.

No, I'm not an SUV owner. I frankly don't like them all that much personally. But I support upholding the right of a person to drive one if he so desires.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
For those of you complaining about SUVs being "unsafe" for the rest of you, think of it this way. If everyone had these little lunchbox cars, there would still be larger vehicles around for hauling stuff. I somehow doubt the semi will go away any time soon, it only is the primary means of goods transportation after all. So you could still even more easily now get flattened by one of those.

And if you worry you'll get flattened by an SUV, you worry too much.

No, I'm not an SUV owner. I frankly don't like them all that much personally. But I support upholding the right of a person to drive one if he so desires.

If you were stuck in a cage with a lion and a tiger, would you complain if one of them got removed? Sure, being stuck with the remaining one would suck, but you'd still be better off than having to deal with both. I'd also argue that the average semi driver is a better driver than the average SUV driver for a multitude of reason.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Pariah

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
For those of you complaining about SUVs being "unsafe" for the rest of you, think of it this way. If everyone had these little lunchbox cars, there would still be larger vehicles around for hauling stuff. I somehow doubt the semi will go away any time soon, it only is the primary means of goods transportation after all. So you could still even more easily now get flattened by one of those.

And if you worry you'll get flattened by an SUV, you worry too much.

No, I'm not an SUV owner. I frankly don't like them all that much personally. But I support upholding the right of a person to drive one if he so desires.

If you were stuck in a cage with a lion and a tiger, would you complain if one of them got removed? Sure, being stuck with the remaining one would suck, but you'd still be better off than having to deal with both. I'd also argue that the average semi driver is a better driver than the average SUV driver for a multitude of reason.

Of that there is absolutely no doubt. :thumbsup: