We should all be ashamed

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Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
2
76
if California kept all of the money that t sent to the fed it would have no problems. We would be bad ass and export to the rest of you sucking up even more money.

would be hard for them to do anything without all the power some of the red states currently provide for them!
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,001
8,033
136
What will it take for all us to finally rally together and figure this out? Another 9/11? Another WWII?

9/11 was used as nothing more than an excuse to increase our domestic problems. If anything it helped accelerate it via the creation of the Patriot Act and the Afgan/Iraq wars.

To think of another as some sort of cure is madness.

This ends in the balkinization of the United States. Our unity is no more.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Texas and all the other red states need to split off and form their own shithole of a country, while the rest of us move on.

The South prefers to stay this time and take your tax dollars / free handouts. Social welfare is awesome! Blue states need to push through more federal legislation expanding it.
 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/oil_reaches_louisiana_shores.html

This is shameful. This has probably already been posted, but I felt the need to do it anyway.

I love this country dammit, but we can't seem to get anything right. Terrorist attacks on our soil, wars, Katrina, oil spill, healthcare reform, financial reform, meltdown, etc. etc. etc. Where does it end? If we tried to go the moon we'd probably end up crashing into the sun at this point (allow me a little creative license with that analogy).

This country is being split apart, the identity and culture torn to shreds. We're nothing but sycophants of the world right now, destroying ourselves, our economy, our health and now our environment. This isn't some hippy, tree-hugging bullshit.

What will it take for all us to finally rally together and figure this out? Another 9/11? Another WWII?

Apologies in advance for the particularly emotive style of this post. While we all sit here and bicker and moan about such minutiae like not getting equal media coverage for conservative issues that no one cares about, our beaches are being destroyed. Our economy, our culture, our global competitiveness and then our beaches.

What can be done to truly reform this country? Forget politicians. Forget parties. What can we do? At some point you just have to acknowledge that it's too damn broken and you need to start near zero and rebuild.

Obviously not another 9/11.
 

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
I know a handful of techs at my local plant, and they def NOT leaning left

probably also matters where you live *shrug*

Well, Eastern Ontario... also I said professionals, not techs.. But yeah, I'm sure it would depend. The point is it is certainly not at all void of "progressive minded folks". In my area the research lab/plant is the only reason the liberal, NDP, and Green parties get any votes at all in the conservative dominated riding (military base is a boon for the Tory votes).
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Well, Eastern Ontario... also I said professionals, not techs.. But yeah, I'm sure it would depend. The point is it is certainly not at all void of "progressive minded folks". In my area the research lab/plant is the only reason the liberal, NDP, and Green parties get any votes at all in the conservative dominated riding (military base is a boon for the Tory votes).
You'd play hell finding any lefties like that in Tennessee. Our lefties are predominantly the very lowest of society and those who are highly educated but in soft sciences or the arts (and typically employed or funded by government.) Really depends more on location than anything else.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
2
0
There is nothing that can done. That's the problem with a massive one-size-fits-all federal bureaucracy. People in a town of 300 in South Dakota are treated exactly the same as those in LA. States laws are a quaint reminder of the past when New York might differ from Kansas in how they handle problems. We're now all just automatons in the federal machine and people are lashing out to one side or the other. It's a polarizing environment when you tell 300 million people that they have to all be the same.

Great way of articulating it, and I agree. I still think the media has largely provided the road that brought us to this point, and with the bureaucracy as you describe we're not left with any ability to resolve any of these issues without massive, comprehensive and divisive reforms.

In short, I think the media's search for readership has left us all holding the bag. Americans have fallen out of love with America. Capitalism is to a large degree demonized by many, I think to a great part due to the media's treatment of the relatively few criminals that hose the system for everyone else. The focus on the real success stories gets almost no air time, because it doesn't drive readers. The inevitable result for this is the desire by many for more government intervention as we now have.

Ahh, I'm rambling. To cubeless' perhaps valid point, I just keep getting frustrated that we can't all agree on the problems and discuss potential solutions in a non-partisan manner. The people can't do it, the politicians can't do it and government can't seem to execute it. Fail all around.
 

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
You'd play hell finding any lefties like that in Tennessee. Our lefties are predominantly the very lowest of society and those who are highly educated but in soft sciences or the arts (and typically employed or funded by government.) Really depends more on location than anything else.

I always wondered where the hell the USA found its left folk.. I mean we have some nuts here as well... but the Green party has a huge presence in the physicist/engineer dominated lab. Hell, half of the staff bike 10miles to work every day... they bloody ski there in the winter. Eco nuts would put some of them mildly. I think a lot of it has to do with these being VERY intelligent chaps that realize that we play the hand we are dealt.. One cannot invent infinitely dense, infinitely clean energy over night. Fission may be one step towards that and science moves one step at a time. We also used to produce a LOT of medical isotopes. Utopia is nice to think about but only if it helps you move towards it, we all understand we are on an asymptote.

Mind you, I couldn't say how much of that is due to economics as the conservative have a fun time selling off parts of our crown corporation (and are doing it as we speak)... puts some folks off I suppose.

That aside, nuclear gets a hugely bad rap. It must be done well, as poor storage of used fuel can be devastating. But it is quite safe. Granted as with any current energy dense means it could be safer.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,134
223
106
I think we should gather up all the oil and store it on bushes ranch.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I always wondered where the hell the USA found its left folk.. I mean we have some nuts here as well... but the Green party has a huge presence in the physicist/engineer dominated lab. Hell, half of the staff bike 10miles to work every day... they bloody ski there in the winter. Eco nuts would put some of them mildly. I think a lot of it has to do with these being VERY intelligent chaps that realize that we play the hand we are dealt.. One cannot invent infinitely dense, infinitely clean energy over night. Fission may be one step towards that and science moves one step at a time. We also used to produce a LOT of medical isotopes. Utopia is nice to think about but only if it helps you move towards it, we all understand we are on an asymptote.

Mind you, I couldn't say how much of that is due to economics as the conservative have a fun time selling off parts of our crown corporation (and are doing it as we speak)... puts some folks off I suppose.

That aside, nuclear gets a hugely bad rap. It must be done well, as poor storage of used fuel can be devastating. But it is quite safe. Granted as with any current energy dense means it could be safer.

I largely agree about nuclear, although its need for huge cooling reservoirs has devastated our obligate river dwelling fauna. Still, it's by far the cleanest from of energy we have at the moment, and a prosperous society can preserve its species with some judicial tinkering with the reservoirs and remaining rivers.

I think a lot of the political spectrum is economics. If you're near the bottom economically, you need some pretty strong ethics to not be vigorously in favor of redistribution. On the other hand if you're near the top you can afford it and may feel guilty about having more wealth, especially if it came easily or through others' hard work. If you're in the middle class, then probably your politics are shaped more by those around you, as you probably won't lose or gain that much either way. And of course if you work for government then you'll be much more likely to support government growth and higher taxes, and oppose those that wish to cut government.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,536
16,301
146
I'm not ashamed.

We shouldn't be ashamed.

We didn't start the fire.

It was always burning... since the world's been turning
 

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
I largely agree about nuclear, although its need for huge cooling reservoirs has devastated our obligate river dwelling fauna. Still, it's by far the cleanest from of energy we have at the moment, and a prosperous society can preserve its species with some judicial tinkering with the reservoirs and remaining rivers.

I think a lot of the political spectrum is economics. If you're near the bottom economically, you need some pretty strong ethics to not be vigorously in favor of redistribution. On the other hand if you're near the top you can afford it and may feel guilty about having more wealth, especially if it came easily or through others' hard work. If you're in the middle class, then probably your politics are shaped more by those around you, as you probably won't lose or gain that much either way. And of course if you work for government then you'll be much more likely to support government growth and higher taxes, and oppose those that wish to cut government.

The need for water is a huge issue to some wildlife as super warm water doesn't exactly help fish if they are acclimatized to something a couple dozen degrees colder. We are working on it . Unfortunately the phase cycle of water is our best way to tap the power at the moment. Not to give people the wrong impression, something like a CANDU has 2 completely isolated water loops (the core and the generator), the water from a river is only used to condense the steam and is never part of either loop.
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
Quote: Originally Posted by Kadarin Texas and all the other red states need to split off and form their own shithole of a country, while the rest of us move on. this^^^ we are too different.

But never fear I'm sure us blue states will have lax border security so you all can come for jobs

If only it were as simple as seperating along state lines

I,m in Texas and I'll asure you I'm as blue as blue gets as are roughly 9 million of my fellow Texans, but unforetunately we share the state with about 11 million repub bumkins
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
4,295
1
81
snip

Ahh, I'm rambling. To cubeless' perhaps valid point, I just keep getting frustrated that we can't all agree on the problems and discuss potential solutions in a non-partisan manner. The people can't do it, the politicians can't do it and government can't seem to execute it. Fail all around.

you are... rambling, that is... why do things need to be done in some mythical kumbaya manner? y'all just passed the biggest, most wonderful piece of legislation in the past 50 years!!! wtf do you mean nothing can get done?

and the admin, since it's regulatory arm had such a good handle on regulation and safety, had just approved a bunch of offshore drilling, too... they're doing all kinds of good stuff...
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
this^^^ we are too different. But never fear I'm sure us blue states will have lax border security so you all can come for jobs

Why the hell would we do that? When you figure out your 40mph civic gets zero miles from zero gallons you will be on your knees performing obscene acts to get your "go juice" and thats just during the summer. I can't even imagine the sinful acts you would commit for your heating oil during the winter... and your nat gas... and your petrochemicals to keep your factories (the few that are left up there) going.... etc...

OTOH, plenty of people want what we are selling (infrastructure that you guys kinda don't have). Aint that a bitch.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
If only it were as simple as seperating along state lines

I,m in Texas and I'll asure you I'm as blue as blue gets as are roughly 9 million of my fellow Texans, but unforetunately we share the state with about 11 million repub bumkins

So move? I'm sure Texas would mourn the loss of GuitarDaddy, but they'll get over it.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
It's almost unbelievable just how clueless the usual Righties are about this oil spill. This isn't like Katrina, where the govt has the kind of resources to assist the displaced people, dam off the levee breaches, pump out the water and move on from there.

The govt simply has neither the equipment or the expertise to deal with this kind of disaster. Very simple, very straightforward, no matter how badly we want it to be otherwise.

And I'm sure that the voices now raving about how the Obama admin is all to blame were the ones screaming "drill, baby, drill!" in the runup to the 2008 election. It's your heroes, the captains of industry, the mega-national oil companies who created this mess by getting greedy, cutting corners, trying to squeeze out the last nickel...

Hey, it's semi-regulated free enterprise capitalism in action, guys, so, uhh, maybe you'd want to reconsider your stance on that subject, or just try to quit putting the blame off on somebody else... Why, I'm sure they'd have done better with no govt oversight at all, right?

Only in the fevered dreams of the rabid Right...
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
It's almost unbelievable just how clueless the usual Righties are about this oil spill. This isn't like Katrina, where the govt has the kind of resources to assist the displaced people, dam off the levee breaches, pump out the water and move on from there.
....
Only in the fevered dreams of the rabid Right...

Maybe the righties feel that government is all powerful and should of handled this day 1?
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
2
0
you are... rambling, that is... why do things need to be done in some mythical kumbaya manner? y'all just passed the biggest, most wonderful piece of legislation in the past 50 years!!! wtf do you mean nothing can get done?

and the admin, since it's regulatory arm had such a good handle on regulation and safety, had just approved a bunch of offshore drilling, too... they're doing all kinds of good stuff...

1) Not sure who "y'all" is, but it certainly isn't me
2) I have no idea what you're talking about. Seems like you're raging against a different machine here friend
 

bobsmith1492

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2004
3,875
3
81
What can be done indeed. Why does it feel like the country is falling apart? Why so much bickering, so much corruption and so many blunders? What is the root cause of it all? What can be done? How do we not end up like ancient Rome, crumbling into decay?

It all starts at the bottom. The country is like a tower, with each layer built on top of the others. Every level and the foundation has to be strong and do its part to support the structure. Each part of the tower is simply people living their lives. When each person does their part well everything holds together.

What's happened is the building blocks are crumbling, weakening the whole structure. As such, whenever something happens to the tower, it shakes more and more; eventually something will hit it hard enough that it will collapse. Under good conditions, this country can be so strong that nothing could shake it. As the blocks crumble, though, soon enough it will be weak enough for the next impact to knock it down.

What is wrong with the building blocks? What is wrong with people in general? I can give a whole list of symptoms - laziness, complacency, greed, entitlement mentality - but the root cause is a lack of morals and character. These are qualities the government can never force on anyone, nor hardly even attempt to encourage. The government, in fact, can only reflect the underlying character of its people as our republic was designed to do. Therefore the government is a part of the problem and cannot offer any solution.

What then can be done? Tend to your own house. Search for the good: truth, the way things should be. Treat others the way you want them to treat you, not the perverted version that is so easy to fall toward (do it to them before they do it to you).

This is a living building, much like the human body. Each brick, each cell in the structure can grow and repair itself. As each cell tends to itself and its neighbors while providing the functions that prop up the structure as a whole, without needing to worry that the other cells or bricks are doing their part, the structure will stand on its own.
 
Last edited:

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
What can be done to truly reform this country?

Forget politicians. Forget parties.

What can we do?

At some point you just have to acknowledge that it's too damn broken and you need to start near zero and rebuild.

You answered your own question.

When enough people are negatively impacted and disgusted it will happen.
 

Cotswolds

Member
Jan 20, 2010
43
0
0
this^^^ we are too different. But never fear I'm sure us blue states will have lax border security so you all can come for jobs


I really, really wish we would split off from you idiots. But it makes me LOL that you think the jobs would be there and not in the red states. That's fucking rich, thanks for the early morning laughs
 
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