Weapons of Mass destruction found.

[heartsurgeon]

well, i'll try to "put it all together" for you since your obviously missing the connection.

the missle motor was connected to a missile at one point.
the missiles were capable of delivering biological and chemical payloads.
sarin gas has been found in Iraq.

missile motor + missile + sarin gas = WMD.

now i know that some of you are going to say, hey wait a minute, how do you know they were going to put those missile motors in those missiles and put sarin in them?

well, i suppose there are other uses for banned missile motors, missiles and sarin, i just can't seem to name any right now. i'm sure someone help me out...

 

[SuperTool]

Sarin was found in a shell. Shell is fired from a cannon, not on top of a missile.

 

[heartsurgeon]

yep, i should have known that Sarin can only be placed in artillery shells, and not in a missle. how silly of me!
i'm sure they manufactured those Al Samoud-2 missiles to carry only chemical weapons they didn't possess.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Missile engines are not a WMD.

Missile engines were not all that was found.

Read the article.

Already discussed here and here.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Missile engines are not a WMD.

Missile engines were not all that was found.

Read the article.

Mixer to mix fuel for those engines? You going somewhere with this. Let's see you stretch.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
yep, i should have known that Sarin can only be placed in artillery shells, and not in a missle. how silly of me!

Just curious, are you ever going to answer for your lies and disinformation earlier in this thread?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
yep, i should have known that Sarin can only be placed in artillery shells, and not in a missle. how silly of me!

I tell it how it is, and you tell it how it might be.

 

[glenn1]

Sarin was found in a shell. Shell is fired from a cannon, not on top of a missile.

To be technical, shells are fired by field artillery (mortars, howitzers, or field guns). Cannons fire cannonballs, although cannon can and sometimes is used as a generic term for any type of artillery, just as "gun" is used as a generic term for any small arms firearm.

 

[heartsurgeon]

Already discussed here and here.

different articles, different points made.

Just curious, are you ever going to answer for your lies and disinformation earlier in this thread?

i reject your characterizations.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
U.N. experts find 20 engines used in banned Iraqi missiles in Jordan scrapyards

of course those of you who deny WMD's in Iraq will claim:

20 missile motors, so what?

or

They were in Jordan, so what?

or

They were scrap metal motors..so what?

or maybe just

So what?

Well, they started out as missile motors, in Iraq, to banned Al Samoud 2 missiles. These missiles were made around 1993, and banned by the U.N. in 1994 because they had ranges exceeding 150 kilometers, and were chem/bio warhead capable. These represent WMD components. They were in Iraq. They were very recently sent out of the country.

but i know, nothing but a warehouse full of nukes just about ready to explode will satisy some, if that..

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=52&threadid=1319487&highlight_key=y&keyword1=scrap


Nothing new here....

 

[MadRat]

The only shells found with sarin were manufactured before the first Gulf War. They've yet to show otherwise.

The missile motors were not enough to fight a war over. If you didn't remember, the U.S. took a different definition of maximum range than the Iraqis. The rockets, they were not really guided missiles per se, were definitely within the agreed limits if fired from their launchers. However, if accellerated by a cold launch and then fired at just the right angle, mind you they had to be warheadless, then the missile could exceed the maximum range by 8%. Big deal.

 

[heartsurgeon]

tell it how it is, and you tell it how it might be.

well what exactly did ol' Saddam make those al-samoud 2 missiles, and that sarin gas for? Not a lot of "dual" use for a missile designed to carry chemical weapons, and sarin gas....unless you know of some?

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Missile engines are not a WMD.

Missile engines were not all that was found.

Read the article.

Mixer to mix fuel for those engines? You going somewhere with this. Let's see you stretch.

ohhh, big stretch. Awww, that feels better. Now to your lack of reading comprehension, I'll bold the important parts for you.

U.N. experts find 20 engines

U.N. weapons experts have found 20 engines used in banned Iraqi missiles in a Jordan scrapyard along with other equipment which could be used to make weapons of mass destruction, an official said Wednesday.
...
The missile engines and some other equipment discovered in the scrapyards had been monitored by U.N. inspectors because of their potential dual use in both legitimate civilian activities and banned weapons production. .

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: MadRat
The only shells found with sarin were manufactured before the first Gulf War. They've yet to show otherwise.

Why does when they were manufactured matter?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

Already discussed here and here.

different articles, different points made.

Different articles, same points made. The new info is the rocket motors.

Just curious, are you ever going to answer for your lies and disinformation earlier in this thread?

i reject your characterizations.

I'm sure you do. You have not, however, offered any substance for rejecting it other than your desire to avoid accountability for poor integrity. You blatantly lied about my position and you continue to dodge the incontrovertible FACT that your single shell doesn't even begin to support the pre-war claims by Bush-lite and his minions.

Shall I bump the post to remind everyone why you kept running away?

 

[tallest1]

I'm too sleepy to make much of a comment but I must mention that assuming your hopes are true HS, do you seriously feel threatened when a country's "secret weapon" is barely-potent old chemicals on a 10 year old missile engine? Is this the smoking gun proving that Iraqi had a Weapon of Mass Murder Related Program Activity Planning Appointments?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: etech
[ ... ]
The missile engines and some other equipment discovered in the scrapyards had been monitored by U.N. inspectors because of their potential dual use in both legitimate civilian activities and banned weapons production. .

Which then led to a discussion about the poor job Bush&Co. did of securing the facilities from which this dangerous equipment was taken. This stuff wouldn't be showing up in scrap yards, possibly even falling into the hands of terrorist groups who may use it against us, if Bush had bothered to plan what we'd do after he got done blowing stuff up.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: tallest1
I'm too sleepy to make much of a comment but I must mention that assuming your hopes are true HS, do you seriously feel threatened when a country's "secret weapon" is barely-potent old chemicals on a 10 year old missile engine? Is this the smoking gun proving that Iraqi had a Weapon of Mass Murder Related Program Activity Planning Appointments?

Sarin isn't potent?

The only reason that shell wasn't potent was the way the shell was exploded vs. being fired form an artillery piece.

 

[heartsurgeon]

The only shells found with sarin were manufactured before the first Gulf War. They've yet to show otherwise.

barely-potent old chemicals on a 10 year old missile engine

The shell was a binary sarin nerve gas weapon.
according to The Department of Defense:

IN A BINARY MUNITION,
THE TWO PRECURSOR CHEMICALS ARE STORED
SEPARATELY AND ONLY MIXED TO FORM THE
CHEMICAL AGENT IMMEDIATELY BEFORE OR
WHEN THE ROUND IS IN FLIGHT. THUS, THE
SHELF LIFE OF THE AGENT BECOMES IRRELEVANT...
BY 1990 IRAQ HAD SUCCESSFULLY
TESTED 155-MM ARTILLERY SHELLS AND OTHER
BINARY MUNITIONS AND LAUNCHED A BALLISTIC
MISSILE WITH A BINARY WARHEAD AS WELL.

so if you believe the experts (and i know you probably don't), binary formulations of Sarin have a very long shelf life. essentiall they don't "wear out" with time. so your argument of when the sarin was manufactured is really immaterial.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: tallest1
I'm too sleepy to make much of a comment but I must mention that assuming your hopes are true HS, do you seriously feel threatened when a country's "secret weapon" is barely-potent old chemicals on a 10 year old missile engine? Is this the smoking gun proving that Iraqi had a Weapon of Mass Murder Related Program Activity Planning Appointments?

Sarin isn't potent?

The only reason that shell wasn't potent was the way the shell was exploded vs. being fired form an artillery piece.

That and the fact it was a lone shell and not from a stockpile. The people who made it into an IED didn't even know it was a chemical weapon. It was rigged just like any other IED. Had it been fired normally, it might have caused more damage, esp. if multiple shells were launched.

 

[YellowRose]

Well I sure hope they don't check the local stores because if they do they will find WMD's. In fact I hear they found WMD's in HS's home.

As far as the shell with sarin gas. That was bogus. How do I know. The article stated that people were treated and released. When a person is exposed to nerve gas they had better be in MOPP4 if they wish to surive otherwise they will be doing the dying cockroach thing.

 

[heartsurgeon]

it was a lone shell

The missile engines...had been monitored...because of their potential dual use in both legitimate civilian activities

As far as the shell with sarin gas. That was bogus.

yep, they only made one binary sarin gas artillery shell, and missile motors have legitimate civilian use (i have one in my lawmower!). When in doubt...the CIA planted it, or made it up...

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

it was a lone shell

The missile engines...had been monitored...because of their potential dual use in both legitimate civilian activities

As far as the shell with sarin gas. That was bogus.

yep, they only made one binary sarin gas artillery shell, and missile motors have legitimate civilian use (i have one in my lawmower!). When in doubt...the CIA planted it, or made it up...

More straw men, still no attempt to address real issues. In all fairness, I suppose you have to run with what you have.

 

[SuperTool]

Dual use equipment? Let me guess, they found aluminium tubes? At... Gasp... Scrapyard! Stop the presses!

 

[nutxo]

Has anyone thought about the fact that if there are more, the enemy now know what they have? I wonder if they could find a way to detonate them properly.:frown: