Wearing a swastika in public.

[OVerLoRDI]

From the picture the only swastika I see is the small one on with the eagle emblem. Why not remove the eagle emblem and maybe find a German eagle emblem that isn't perched on a swastika? The rest of the uniform, especially the Iron cross, is obviously German WWII.

Nevermind, the more I think of it, the more you are just being an idiot. If you want to wear something from WWII and make it historically accurate, wear a uniform that people will be happy to see. Something like a US paratroopers uniform, or a RAF flight suit. These uniforms people will immediately recognize and won't consider attacking you over, in fact you might even make friends.

 

[crashtestdummy]

I played quite a few World War II video games as a kid. I've killed my fair share of "Nazis". But, at the same time, I chose to do Wehrmacht because it's much less politically contentious than doing a Brownshirt impression or a Waffen-SS getup. A lot of soldiers in the Wehrmacht were simply conscripted young teenagers.

That makes no sense. You're right that it would be even more offensive to show up in an SS uniform, but that's not a meaningful statement. You act like those are the only options you have.

As for the swastika, I thought long and hard about it, because I knew it would offend. But I have mild OCD when it comes to historical accuracy, and with the consultation of some friends, I decided to stick with it.

It's not just the swastika. Wearing a Nazi-era German uniform at all is offensive. Whether or not one piece of paraphernalia is there will have little impact on people's reaction.

And finally... there comes the issue of identification which you have raised. Do I identify with Nazis? No. But might people think that I am trolling them for the lulz? Absolutely. If confronted, I will acknowledge that the Nazis did terrible things - and what neo-Nazi acknowledges the Holocaust?

Yet you still wear the Nazi uniform. Why? There must be some element that attracts you beyond having "no other options".

I could dress up as something else, but out of the many costumes I could have done - this one was perhaps the easiest to do and didn't necessitate a great deal of time nor money.

Really? I can think of a few (unless you just happen to have a Nazi uniform lying around, which bothers me even more):

American Soldier (Civil war, WWI, and WWII would all be pretty easy to do).
Mario (esp if you have a friend to go as Luigi or the Princess)
Ryu (some boxing gloves and a karate outfit)
Gordon Freeman (Just get a lab coat and some dorky glasses)
Duke Nukem (Bleach and gel the hair, wear a tank top and some shades, carry a super soaker)
Guybrush Threepwood (wear a pirate outfit and make lots of punny jokes)

...you get the point...

Edit: I would add that I have read stories about Jews who travelled to the Far East only to be shocked by the number swastikas floating around. Most of them know that these swastikas are not associated with Nazism, but it still made plenty of them queasy nonetheless.

This is what I meant about the Nazis ruining the symbol for everyone. It's very hard to disassociate the symbol from the trauma.

 

[piasabird]

Have your lawyer follow you with a camera???

 

[OVerLoRDI]

This is exactly why I'm against watching, making, or acting in anything that contains nazis. All games with nazi's should be banned, and ever reference of them removed from the history books. We need to forget this ever happened, it's that horrible.......

WTF? The solution is censorship and changing the history books?

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
-George Santayana

Your solution is utterly foolish.

 

[sourceninja]

I disagree with the bolded. One of the problems of banning hate speech is that those who believe in it go unchallenged in public. It's like banning your daughter from dating and then being shocked when she gets pregnant because you never taught her about safer sex. We need a constant discussion of these topics precisely because everyone needs to understand how unacceptable this part of the past is. Forgetting that this ever happened makes us far more likely to repeat it. Only by internalizing the horrors of what has happened before can we appropriately understand the consequences of your actions today.

My sarcasm must not translate today ;-)

I was certainly taught about it. You have to remember that the US had a much more pivotal role in the Pacific theater than in Europe in the war. We do not, however, have a memorial in the US to the Nanking Massacre. This is unfortunate, but likely do to demographics and political push. The holocaust memorials exist because of a concerted effort by the Jewish population in America. AFAIK, there has not been a similarly strong push by Chinese immigrant populations (I could be wrong on this).

I would say wearing a Nazi uniform in Boston is roughly equivalent to wearing a Japanese uniform in Bejing. I will admit, though, that most people in Boston wouldn't recognize what a Japanese uniform looks like (except in Chinatown), and thus wouldn't react.

Lastly, there is a slight distinction of intent. It is the same reason that Stalin is not as (emphasis on as) reviled for his purges as Hitler for his genocide. The Nazis killed people with the expressed purpose of wiping the Jewish people off of the face of the earth completely. In the effect of killing people, there was little distinction between the Nazis, the Soviets, and the Japanese, but that difference of intent is important.

I was never taught about the japanese doing the horrible things they did. I didn't really learn about WW2 until I was an adult and took a interest in it. American schools are hit and miss I guess. However, the japanese had just as horrible intents as the germans. They thought of anything not japanese like they were dogs. They did medical experiments on POWs.

"To determine the treatment of frostbite, prisoners were taken outside in freezing weather and left with exposed arms, periodically drenched with water until frozen solid. The arm was later amputated; the doctor would repeat the process on the victim's upper arm to the shoulder. After both arms were gone, the doctors moved on to the legs until only a head and torso remained. The victim was then used for plague and pathogens experiments" Anesthesia was not used because it was believed to affect results. They even ate their POWs

"Indian POW, Lance Naik Hatam Ali (later a citizen of Pakistan), testified that in New Guinea:
the Japanese started selecting prisoners and every day one prisoner was taken out and killed and eaten by the soldiers. I personally saw this happen and about 100 prisoners were eaten at this place by the Japanese. The remainder of us were taken to another spot 50 miles [80 km] away where 10 prisoners died of sickness. At this place, the Japanese again started selecting prisoners to eat. Those selected were taken to a hut where their flesh was cut from their bodies while they were alive and they were thrown into a ditch where they later died."

Not to mention testing biological agents on POWs and taking women as sex slaves.
I don't think we can say that one is worse than the other, but I think my question still stands. Would we being having a passionate discussion if he was wearing a WW2 Japanese uniform?

 

[crashtestdummy]

I don't think we can say that one is worse than the other, but I think my question still stands. Would we being having a passionate discussion if he was wearing a WW2 Japanese uniform?

As I hinted at earlier, I think we wouldn't be, but we should be. Especially with the Japanese denialism over the topic.

 

[preCRT]

As a Jew who lost a huge part of my family to the Nazis & a Boston area resident, I am amazed at the OP's stupidity and lack of sensitivity.

Don't be surprised if you get treated like crap on the T, because your behavior encourages it.



I pray you aren't a student at Boston Latin or any of the better schools or colleges in town, because if you are, standards have fallen to the lowest they've ever been.

 

[StinkyPinky]

I would not be wearing that in public. Of course it is your right to do so, but you are going to get a real hard time. Not worth the trouble.

 

[XX55XX]

I am planning to wear this because I like the uniform from an aesthetic standpoint. Not because I like associating with Nazism.

Plus, Reichswehr uniforms looked very similar, and pre-date Nazi Germany. What would you say to someone who was wearing one of those?

As I hinted at earlier, I think we wouldn't be, but we should be. Especially with the Japanese denialism over the topic.

As a Japanese American, I can safely say that most Japanese are in denial of what happened during WWII. The Germans received a severe tongue-lashing from the Allies after the war, and that helped shape their perspective on events, but my people received no such tongue-lashing because the Allies wanted to avoid fighting a civil insurgency against the Japanese.

Heck, even my parents think that the dropping of the atomic bombs were a war crime, yet they are completely ignorant of Unit 731, the Japanese military unit which conducted heinous medical experiments on Allied POWs and various civilians alike.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Wear the uniform, but try to work in a Hello Kitty theme into the outfit.

 

[paperfist]

Ask yourself this question. Would you wear a Yankees hat through the same area?

Boston fans are all talk, I wore my Yankee uniform at Fenway and just got some ribbing. He wants to wear a uniform that pays ode to a man who exterminated millions.

 

[sourceninja]

Do you feel the same way about people who drive Volkswagen Beetle's. A car that pays ode to a man who exterminated millions? Or is it just a small symbol that bothers because you were socially conditioned to take offense at symbols?

 

[crashtestdummy]

I am planning to wear this because I like the uniform from an aesthetic standpoint. Not because I like associating with Nazism.

This is a really, really bad reason to wear the uniform. You're basically saying "those Nazis did bad things, but I sure do like their sense of style!" The juxtaposition of those two values, and deciding that the latter is more important to you, signifies extremely poor judgement.

 

[sourceninja]

It is exactly why I want to outlaw civil war re-enactors. Can you believe people buy and wear uniforms to look like a bunch of racist, slavery loving southerners that enslaved african americans? It's unbelievable.

If I saw a man on a train dressed as a civil war soldier from the south, I'd beat the shit out of him. And he better hope he doesn't go anywhere were there are african americans.

On April 12, 1864, Confederate forced under Major General Nathan Bedford Forrest massacred black Union soldiers at Fort Pillow, TN. In response, President Abraham Lincoln demanded that black prisoners of war be treated the same as their white comrades. This was refused by Confederate President Jefferson Davis.

These bastards think it's fun to dress up as people who murdered POWs based on the color of their skin. Where is the outrage?

 

[darkswordsman17]

First you think that child porn is OK and now this? I really think you are a contrarian. Why would you ask such a question? Why not ask if you should dress as a suicide bomber, or as a 9/11 victim, or anything else that will get you attention?

The costume, in context of a gaming forum, may be acceptable. Wearing it in public is asking for trouble and is completely insensitive. What if someone on the bus is a holocaust survivor? Maybe they won't say anything or attack you, but the fact of the matter is that you may completely ruin their day because you are incredibly insensitive.

Just because you have the freedom to say or do something doesn't mean that you should. This is just like those idiots protesting the funerals of soldiers.

OP definitely comes off as a really subtle troll after this and his pedophile thread.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-7-most-annoying-hidden-agendas-internet/

I think #6 applies.

 

[paperfist]

Do you feel the same way about people who drive Volkswagen Beetle's. A car that pays ode to a man who exterminated millions? Or is it just a small symbol that bothers because you were socially conditioned to take offense at symbols?

Ferdinand Porsche designed the VW, not Hitler.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Ferdinand Porsche designed the VW, not Hitler.

It was at Hitler's behest that he did it. There's something to be said of the "irony" of it being co-opted by hippies though.

Plus, you know, there's the whole fact that a car is a useful device that has utility. Wearing a Nazi uniform to a video game convention is just a tad bit different, don't ya think?

Er, sorry, that's more directed at the person you quoted, not you.

 

[busydude]

I was a Hindu and even I wouldn't wear a swastika in public.. in the US.

 

[sourceninja]

It was at Hitler's behest that he did it. There's something to be said of the "irony" of it being co-opted by hippies though.

Plus, you know, there's the whole fact that a car is a useful device that has utility. Wearing a Nazi uniform to a video game convention is just a tad bit different, don't ya think?

Er, sorry, that's more directed at the person you quoted, not you.

Is it any different then dressing up to renact a the south in a civil war re-enactment? Do we hate people who wear the uniforms of people who shot POWs based only on the color of their skin?

 

[lxskllr]

Is it any different then dressing up to renact a the south in a civil war re-enactment? Do we hate people who wear the uniforms of people who shot POWs based only on the color of their skin?

The hammer and sickle has become chic in the last decade or so, yet the USSR was as bad, if not worse than the Nazis. There's no point in getting too wrapped up in symbols. I think the bible said something about that...

 

[XX55XX]

This is a really, really bad reason to wear the uniform. You're basically saying "those Nazis did bad things, but I sure do like their sense of style!" The juxtaposition of those two values, and deciding that the latter is more important to you, signifies extremely poor judgement.

Symbols are just symbols. We attach values to them, i.e., good, bad, ugly, etc. And with stuff like this, it's a matter of perspective. To me, the Nazis did bad things. Hell, forced laborers in the Warsaw ghetto who produced some of these uniforms were executed for the smallest of reasons. They resisted by producing poorly-sewn stuff.

But just because someone wears a swastika, it doesn't necessarily connote that they subscribe to the ideology.

I knew a Jewish friend in high school who wore a swastika pin to school one day. Some people asked why he wore it, and he simply said, "I'm Jewish. I know what Hitler did. I want to take this symbol back from the Nazis."

Again, I am aware of the swastika's contentiousness, but the only way we can get over this is by acknowledging the atrocities and de-stigmitizing the symbols involved. We need to take these symbols back.

What would you say to someone to dresses up as an NKVD officer? Stalin's NKVD killed tens of millions during his Great Purge. Millions more starved in the Ukraine. Are other atrocities less worse than the Holocaust just because the people who did them didn't discriminate by race?

I'd say we stigmitize the hammer and sickle as well if we follow this logic.

 

[Griffinhart]

For an upcoming convention, I was thinking about dressing up as a WWII German soldier.

The con doesn't necessarily forbid the wearing of swastikas, but one of the people who worked there as a volunteer told me that the con wouldn't be responsible if people attacked me as a result of it. Wasn't sure if he was joking or not, but I think I'll take my chances regardless.

Anyways, I will be commuting to and from the convention hall via mass transit. The only swastika I'll be wearing is the national emblem of Nazi Germany, which is usually stitched above the right breast pocket. For reference, here's a picture of an M36 tunic with the swastika on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bakałarzewo_-_poniemiecki_bunkier_-_niemiecki_mundur.jpg

I don't know if it might not be a bad idea to wear a swastika decal on my Stahlhelm either, but I just want to see what people think of this.

Would I get beaten up by a bunch of anti-skinheads or anti-racist activists on my way home?

I live in Boston, by the way, and the convention in question is the PAX East.

My question is, as one that has been to PAX East, what would the costume be representing as a gamer? There haven't been any mainstream, widely known, games based in WWII in a few yars, so the choice seems pretty far out of context for the gathering in question.

While you are in your right to wear what you want, I think you are asking for trouble since there isn't any obvious context for it. Oh, and if you do wear it, do stay away from the Quincy Market area while wearing it. It's only a block from the Holocaust Memorial, and intentional or not, would not be a smart move.

 

[XX55XX]

Oh, and if you do wear it, do stay away from the Quincy Market area while wearing it. It's only a block from the Holocaust Memorial, and intentional or not, would not be a smart move.

I went to AnimeBoston two years ago. There were a bunch of Nazi cos-players from Europe who did a Heil Hitler salute in the vicinity of that area. I saw them, actually. People didn't approach them, but it caused quite a stir after the con.

I wasn't offended, but again, it was extremely ill-advised. And they were wearing black uniforms with the armband, too, which made it even worse.

I'll cover up the swastika with a name tag or something while I'm in transit.

 

[Griffinhart]

They are also practicing Buddhists, and there is a swastika adorned by the prayer space in my home.

The difference is context. In one setting it represents success and fortue, in the other it represents Fascism and genocide.

 

[Blintok]

Do you feel the same way about people who drive Volkswagen Beetle's. A car that pays ode to a man who exterminated millions? Or is it just a small symbol that bothers because you were socially conditioned to take offense at symbols?

I wonder how many of them also wear Hugo Boss clothing?



(FYI - Hugo Boss was a member of the SS and his company made the very same uniforms of contention in this thread)