Weekly Jobless Claims Rise.....Again.

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71

"Mostly moving sideways this year, but near the cycle bottom. The large swings over the last two weeks were related to timing and technical factors, and is a reason to use the 4-week average."

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2012/10/weekly-initial-unemployment-claims_18.html

http://news.morningstar.com/all/dow...us-jobless-claims-rise-to-388000-in-week.aspx



Unemployment rate for non-college grads is also starting to come down:

- by education level attained: http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea05.htm

- by race / sex: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat07.htm




IIRC, Challenger Gray Layoff Report has been consistently running near cycle lows for quite a bit of time now. Employers may be hesistant to hire because of unresolved uncertainties (in addition to Europe and China, greatest one is probably risk of lame duck Congress throwing economy into temporary shallow recession next year because they won't let Bush tax cuts for top 2% expire), but they are also holding on for dear life to their skilled workers (easy to fire, but may be very hard to get a replacement with required skills when business picks up again).
 
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Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Companies will soon start hiring for the holidays.

When that happens, people will declare we are in a full recovery.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0

Weekly applications for U.S. unemployment benefits jumped 46,000 last week to a seasonally adjusted 388,000, the highest in four months. The increase represents a rebound from the previous week's sharp drop. Both swings were largely due to technical factors.

The Labor Department says the four-week average of applications, a less volatile measure, fell slightly to 365,500, a level consistent with modest hiring.

Why are you surprised? Due to technical factors it seems like last week was low and this week was high.
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
Companies will soon start hiring for the holidays.

When that happens, people will declare we are in a full recovery.

I believe that is accouted for in the seasonal adjustment factor.

Unless the timing of hiring patterns are changed relative to historic norms (e. g. what Morningstar economist Bob Johnson speculates about college students leaving summer jobs early because college is starting earlier to complete semester by Thanksgiving, which led to artificially bad August BLS and slightly better than reality September BLS), then I think that is subtracted out from SAAR (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/saar.asp).

However, hiring of seasonal workers is supposed to be up something like 4% this year, so that factor should presumably show up in employment numbers.

Steve Liesman on CNBC was talking about Philly Fed report released this morning, which came in stronger than expected (http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000123367&play=1, might indicate economy is growing 2 - 2.5% real GDP, vs. the 1.5 - 2 % everyone seems to assume. Morningstar economist Bob Johnson has also previously pointed out that population growth has only been about 0.7% - 0.8%, where historically it has been as high as 1.5%, so 2.3% real GDP growth can be equivalent to about 3% historic real gdp growth on population growth adjusted basis. Not sure what the potential of economy is, but my guess is probably around 3.5% (real, i. e. adjusted for inflation), 4% max (?) Also, given that the drought has destroyed enough feed corn and soybeans to possibly knock 0.5% off of GDP, if we can somehow get 2 - 2.5% real GDP growth, that's pretty darn good news.

Also got to remember that 2/3 of our economy is consumption, and 2/3 of that is services, not goods.

Have to separate out what sounds like bad news for multi-national companies and Wall Street from what may be a continued slow improvement for Main Street (e. g. if multi-national has both domestic and international units, even if international unit is bleeding money right now, if domestic unit is still healthy and profitable, hopefully that doesn't translate into job losses in U. S. Plus have to separate out company specific restructuring such as Best Buy or HP when they layoff people to rebuild business and make themselves more competitive, vs. more macro, decreasing consumer end demand type cuts.
 
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PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
We can only hope that the employment picture starts getting better despite the idiots running the country......
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81
We can only hope that the employment picture starts getting better despite the idiots running the country......

The next 4 years will be a period of economic growth due to natural cycles regardless of who becomes president. The president at that time will get the credit of course.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,961
140
106
We can only hope that the employment picture starts getting better despite the idiots running the country......


..we can only hope to get rid of the IDIOTS in the white house so we can assure that employment will improve. Elections have consequences.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
0

Last week, IIRC they hit their lowest level in 4 years. Not much of a surprise that they climbed this week. I notice you didn't start a thread last week.

Cherry picking economic data is about the clearest sign of partisan bias I can think of. There is really no other explanation for it. There's a slew of data you can start threads about. What other conclusion should be draw from that the fact that you chose this particular datum to highlight?
 
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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
Last week, IIRC they hit their lowest level in 4 years. Not much of a surprise that they climbed this week. I notice you didn't start a thread last week.

Cherry picking economic data is about the clearest sign of partisan bias I can think of. There is really no other explanation for it. There's a slew of data you can start threads about. What other conclusion should be draw from that the fact that you chose this particular datum to highlight?

Especially since the title is misleading. "Rise....Again" would suggest they have been trending up.

When
1) The hit a 4 year low last week
2) The 4 week moving average fell THIS week.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
0
Fixed it for you.

I don't know man. Biff is pretty off the reservation here. He takes a number which had reached a 4 year low the previous week, and starts a thread about how it spiked up the following week, without mentioning that it was already at a 4 year low, and in fact saying that it spiked up "again." I'm not sure what you really think you're "fixing" here. It kinda does sound like Biff is rooting for failure right now for entirely political reasons. If you think another conclusion is in order, please explain.
 

jjjayb

Member
Jul 4, 2001
75
0
0
Last week, IIRC they hit their lowest level in 4 years. Not much of a surprise that they climbed this week. I notice you didn't start a thread last week.

Cherry picking economic data is about the clearest sign of partisan bias I can think of. There is really no other explanation for it. There's a slew of data you can start threads about. What other conclusion should be draw from that the fact that you chose this particular datum to highlight?

The number was the lowest in 4 years because a large portion of California wasn't included. They didn't get the numbers in on time. Why post a thread about a number that every economist new was going to be revised a week later when all of the data was in?
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
The number was the lowest in 4 years because a large portion of California wasn't included. They didn't get the numbers in on time. Why post a thread about a number that every economist new was going to be revised a week later when all of the data was in?

This.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
0
The number was the lowest in 4 years because a large portion of California wasn't included. They didn't get the numbers in on time. Why post a thread about a number that every economist new was going to be revised a week later when all of the data was in?

Uh yeah, but I didn't post a thread about that number last week, now did I? Did anyone else? I ran searches on the words "jobless" and "unemployment" and found no such thread. Someone is guilty of cherry picking data here, and it isn't me.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
0
Clearly posting jobs numbers has a party affiliation. Derp.

What is your point? Other people are partisan and so are you? Congratulations, you are not alone in having a partisan bias. It's still relevant to this thread that you have a partisan bias...
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
What is your point? Other people are partisan and so are you? Congratulations, you are not alone in having a partisan bias. It's still relevant to this thread that you have a partisan bias...

Still trying to find out how posting job numbers makes you a partisan.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
So all the "conspiracy theories" about the numbers from last week being not accurate were true. Sounds like conspiracy fact now.
 
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