Weight Loss

[MyThirdEye]

I got into a pretty heavy routine before Christmas break happened, and I haven't been on it as heavily since. Anyway, I was wondering, if I should run and lift medium weight more reps? Or just lift more than I run..?

I'm currently taking a dietary protein, and hydroxycut hardcore supplements. Would it be bad to do week segments of running and lifting? run one week, lift the next? Or in day segments, rather?

Sorry for my grammar mistakes, typing this in a hurry.


Thanks

 

[KoolDrew]

Diet > Lifting > Running

However, I don't think any plan is complete without all three.

 

[skace]

Whether you do high, medium or low reps, the end result is muscle growth. Do not lift for the sake of cardio, since it is inefficient compared to your running (there are some exceptions). Your weight loss from lifting will come from increased BMR and increased muscle mass. For your running focus on finding your target heart rate and sticking to it for 20-30 minutes. This is a direct assault on your fat stores.

Balance daily not weekly. A weekly rotation means you are wasting a lot of recovery time. IE: You work your triceps on a Monday, and then don't do them again for 2 weeks. Completely wasted.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Diet > Lifting > Running

However, I don't think any plan is complete without all three.

How about swimming instead of running? swim 1 mile for every 3 that you'd run .....
Less impact and better workout, no?

 

[KoolDrew]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Diet > Lifting > Running

However, I don't think any plan is complete without all three.

How about swimming instead of running? swim 1 mile for every 3 that you'd run .....
Less impact and better workout, no?

Sure. Whatever works for you. I just mentioned running because the OP did.

 

[maluckey]

Easy to remember is cardio training for the heart, circulatory and lungs; weight training for the rest. Your diet should support cardio and lifting and should be adjusted to the needs presented by your workout. Most of the time you just need to clean up what you eat and remove trans fats, saturated fats and limit processed foods (almost impossible to get rid of them in this age). that normall reduceds calories to the point that most people end up eating more food overall to support losing fat and gaining muscle.

A lot of people get it backwards and think that cardio and weght training alone are enough, or that cutting calories is a good thing, then wonder why their workouts won't progress how they want. Sure, you can make it work that way, but why work hard when you don't have to?

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Running burns the second-most number of calories of all exercises (behind cross-country skiing), so you can drop a lot of weight from that. Adding weights to your routine increases muscle mass, which burns more calories.

Try alternating cardio days with strength training days (i.e. run/swim one day; lift weights the next). Take one rest day per week. This will make you the most fit, although not the most thin. I am doing this routine now, and I am 5'9" 142 lbs, compared to 128 lbs when I ran 6 days a week and ate like a horse, but did little strength training.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Sure. Whatever works for you. I just mentioned running because the OP did.

Ahhh ok ... I guess I misread it then .... Thought I may have been missing out on something because I hate running and do want to get back into shape, but I'd really rather do some other aerobic type exercise instead (such as swimming.) Sorry bout that.

 

[Fox5]

hydroxycut hardcore supplements

Man, these things will mess you up. In their current form, they're basically pure caffeine, along with a variety of other stimulants similar to caffeine. And the recommended doses are quite high (well over the amount of caffeine anyone should be taking daily), you're going to be heading toward massive dehydration, mental fatique, loss of sleep, and possibly organ damage. Enjoy your highly elevated blood pressure.

 

[irishScott]

Running on pavement long-term will kill your joints (in terms of developing arthritis years earlier if you push it). Unless you're on a rubberized track or your Treadmill has shock absorption, stick to low impact stuff.

Also, I recommend rowing. Full core workout plus excellent cardio. Takes some determination and will-power though. A treadmill, or even an elliptical will give you momentum and/or help keep you going. A rowing machine will do that to a degree (depending on the tech it uses and dampener setting), but after the first few minutes (or less if you it becomes negligible. At that point, you start driving the machine. Not the other way around. Takes a lot of will-power, especially if you're out of shape/not used to working out/lazy.

If you go for rowing, shove the dampener level up to ten. It's like rowing a fata$$ rowboat, as opposed to rowing a streamlined crew skimmer (lowest setting). Better workout. Even if you can only go for a few minutes at first, you'll get stronger very quickly. I went from doing 20 minute workouts to 1 hour workouts over the course of a month, and increased my Strokes/Minute and Split Time (The time it takes for you to "row" 500 meters). I was burning 700+ calories an hour by that time.

I've let myself slip since, but I'm getting back into it.

 

[MyThirdEye]

Originally posted by: Fox5

hydroxycut hardcore supplements

Man, these things will mess you up. In their current form, they're basically pure caffeine, along with a variety of other stimulants similar to caffeine. And the recommended doses are quite high (well over the amount of caffeine anyone should be taking daily), you're going to be heading toward massive dehydration, mental fatique, loss of sleep, and possibly organ damage. Enjoy your highly elevated blood pressure.

I drink ~2-4 gallons of water a day.

 

[MyThirdEye]

Originally posted by: irishScott
Running on pavement long-term will kill your joints (in terms of developing arthritis years earlier if you push it). Unless you're on a rubberized track or your Treadmill has shock absorption, stick to low impact stuff.

Also, I recommend rowing. Full core workout plus excellent cardio. Takes some determination and will-power though. A treadmill, or even an elliptical will give you momentum and/or help keep you going. A rowing machine will do that to a degree (depending on the tech it uses and dampener setting), but after the first few minutes (or less if you it becomes negligible. At that point, you start driving the machine. Not the other way around. Takes a lot of will-power, especially if you're out of shape/not used to working out/lazy.

If you go for rowing, shove the dampener level up to ten. It's like rowing a fata$$ rowboat, as opposed to rowing a streamlined crew skimmer (lowest setting). Better workout. Even if you can only go for a few minutes at first, you'll get stronger very quickly. I went from doing 20 minute workouts to 1 hour workouts over the course of a month, and increased my Strokes/Minute and Split Time (The time it takes for you to "row" 500 meters). I was burning 700+ calories an hour by that time.

I've let myself slip since, but I'm getting back into it.

I believe there is a rowing machine at the gym I workout at. I'll have to check that out, Thanks

 

[ViperVin2]

Originally posted by: Fox5

hydroxycut hardcore supplements

Man, these things will mess you up. In their current form, they're basically pure caffeine, along with a variety of other stimulants similar to caffeine. And the recommended doses are quite high (well over the amount of caffeine anyone should be taking daily), you're going to be heading toward massive dehydration, mental fatique, loss of sleep, and possibly organ damage. Enjoy your highly elevated blood pressure.

with proper nutrition.. and of course exercise, hydroxycut does supplement weight loss pretty well. some experience the symptoms you mentioned.. but for many others it works w/o side effects.

personally i would recommend going with an ECA stack over hydroxycut. much cheaper and you have more control over your dosage

 

[edcarman]

Originally posted by: irishScott
If you go for rowing, shove the dampener level up to ten. It's like rowing a fata$$ rowboat, as opposed to rowing a streamlined crew skimmer (lowest setting). Better workout.

Be careful with max resistance on a rowing machine. If your techique's not good (and for the average gym-goer it isn't) you will stuff up your lower back.
Most of the people I've seen set the resistance to 10 (on a Concept II rower) and hack away at 32+ strokes per min. With proper technique you should really be hitting only 18-20 spm, but at max strength for each stroke.
It's a common misconception the resistance actually makes a difference to the difficulty or energy used for a workout - it doesn't (apart from certain physiological adaption effects). So long as you maintain the same split/power you will get the same workout load.

Summary: High resistance + low spm = Low resistance + high spm

PS. On a Concept II D machine a resistance of 4-6 usually corresponds to the feeling of rowing in a racing boat.

Concept2 Rowing Machines | Air Resistance Explained
Concept2 Rowing Machines | Technique
Good technique animation

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: edcarman

Originally posted by: irishScott
If you go for rowing, shove the dampener level up to ten. It's like rowing a fata$$ rowboat, as opposed to rowing a streamlined crew skimmer (lowest setting). Better workout.

Be careful with max resistance on a rowing machine. If your techique's not good (and for the average gym-goer it isn't) you will stuff up your lower back.
Most of the people I've seen set the resistance to 10 (on a Concept II rower) and hack away at 32+ strokes per min. With proper technique you should really be hitting only 18-20 spm, but at max strength for each stroke.
It's a common misconception the resistance actually makes a difference to the difficulty or energy used for a workout - it doesn't (apart from certain physiological adaption effects). So long as you maintain the same split/power you will get the same workout load.

Summary: High resistance + low spm = Low resistance + high spm

PS. On a Concept II D machine a resistance of 4-6 usually corresponds to the feeling of rowing in a racing boat.

Concept2 Rowing Machines | Air Resistance Explained
Concept2 Rowing Machines | Technique
Good technique animation

I believe that's actually better for the cardio aspect. You keep your heart rate higher for longer periods. Also, doing strokes at max strength is also a good way to blow out your back if you don't know your limits.

Like you said, energy wise they even out, and you need proper technique to get the most out of either method/avoid injury. Just depends on what you want out of the workout.

 

[edcarman]

Originally posted by: irishScottJust depends on what you want out of the workout.

Rowing is marketed as a great low impact whole body workout (which it is). The problem is that if you don't have proper technique, there is a pretty good chance that you'll pick up lower back injuries when training at higher intensities, regardless of rate or resistance setting.

Most non-rowers achieve high rate by 'shooting the slide'. When they start the stroke, their backside slides back quite a way before their shoulders start moving. A large amount of their initial leg drive goes into stretching their lower back. They then finish off with a very short stroke mainly using their arms - the handle doesn't move that far and they can get a high rate. In this situation, the higher the resistance, the higher the stretching of the back muscles from the leg drive.

In pretty much any cardio activity, what matters is intensity and duration. How you achieve the intensity (high rate, low resitance or low rate high resistance) is pretty much immaterial from your heart's point of view. What matters is picking an intensity that you can sustain for the duration of the exercise.
Maximum fat burning occurs at heartrates exceeding 90-95% maximum HR. The problem is that you generally can't sustain this effort for very long, and certainly not for multiple sessions on succesive days.
A good balance between intensity and duration is to work at around 83-88% MHR for 30 minutes or so (or slightly lower HR if you want to go for the full hour).

Rowing at 70-80% MHR for an hour is a good fat burning and fitness workout, but...anyone who's done it will know that it's boring as hell, your bum starts to ache 2/3 of the way in and there's no way to scratch your balls, no matter how much they're itching!
Breaking it up into two sets of 30min at a slightly higher intensity allows you time for that all important scratch.
Ratewise, you don't really need to rate much more than 24-26 at 4-6 resistance with good technique, for a typical cardio session (this changes if you're doing sessions to improve speed, power etc.)

The sad thing about rowing at the gym is that it is not that difficult to learn the technique. You can teach someone reasonable technique in one or two supervised sessions of 15 minutes. The problem I've seen is that most personal trainers dump their clients on the machine and tell them to row for ten minutes while they meander off to make coffee.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: edcarman

Originally posted by: irishScottJust depends on what you want out of the workout.

Rowing is marketed as a great low impact whole body workout (which it is). The problem is that if you don't have proper technique, there is a pretty good chance that you'll pick up lower back injuries when training at higher intensities, regardless of rate or resistance setting.

Most non-rowers achieve high rate by 'shooting the slide'. When they start the stroke, their backside slides back quite a way before their shoulders start moving. A large amount of their initial leg drive goes into stretching their lower back. They then finish off with a very short stroke mainly using their arms - the handle doesn't move that far and they can get a high rate. In this situation, the higher the resistance, the higher the stretching of the back muscles from the leg drive.

In pretty much any cardio activity, what matters is intensity and duration. How you achieve the intensity (high rate, low resitance or low rate high resistance) is pretty much immaterial from your heart's point of view. What matters is picking an intensity that you can sustain for the duration of the exercise.
Maximum fat burning occurs at heartrates exceeding 90-95% maximum HR. The problem is that you generally can't sustain this effort for very long, and certainly not for multiple sessions on succesive days.
A good balance between intensity and duration is to work at around 83-88% MHR for 30 minutes or so (or slightly lower HR if you want to go for the full hour).

]Rowing at 70-80% MHR for an hour is a good fat burning and fitness workout, but...anyone who's done it will know that it's boring as hell, your bum starts to ache 2/3 of the way in and there's no way to scratch your balls, no matter how much they're itching!
Breaking it up into two sets of 30min at a slightly higher intensity allows you time for that all important scratch.
Ratewise, you don't really need to rate much more than 24-26 at 4-6 resistance with good technique, for a typical cardio session (this changes if you're doing sessions to improve speed, power etc.)

The sad thing about rowing at the gym is that it is not that difficult to learn the technique. You can teach someone reasonable technique in one or two supervised sessions of 15 minutes. The problem I've seen is that most personal trainers dump their clients on the machine and tell them to row for ten minutes while they meander off to make coffee.

Agreed, although I've never encountered any of the bolded problems, but that depends on the individual

That and I take the philosophy that "if you have enough energy to think it's boring, you're not working hard enough", but once again, depends on the individual.

 

[Bateluer]

Running is the ultimate exercise. Humans evolved to do it.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: amjohns5
I got into a pretty heavy routine before Christmas break happened, and I haven't been on it as heavily since. Anyway, I was wondering, if I should run and lift medium weight more reps? Or just lift more than I run..?

I'm currently taking a dietary protein, and hydroxycut hardcore supplements. Would it be bad to do week segments of running and lifting? run one week, lift the next? Or in day segments, rather?

Sorry for my grammar mistakes, typing this in a hurry.


Thanks

If I were you I would do weights + 20mins of High Intensity Interval Training 3x-4x per week, coupled with a diet that leaves you in a calorie deficit, consisting of roughly 40% protein, 40% healthy fats, and 20% carbs.

Basically, you want to continue to lift heavy in order to tell your body that it needs to retain the muscle. The high intensity interval training will elevate your metabolism to burn more calories per day, even while resting. Studies have shown it to be more effective for at loss than ordinary prolonged cardio workouts.

I also understand that there are superior cutting supplements to hydroxycut.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Running is the ultimate exercise. Humans evolved to do it.

On grass, soil, and sand. Running on any rigid hard surface (sidewalk, street, treadmill without shocks, etc) long term will wreak havoc your joints.

 

[Ultima200]

First, you need to identify your goals....How old are you?? To loose weight and gain muscle under normal circumstances (ie: no steroids) is extremely difficult, unless you are young. With that said, what are your specific goals??? Gain muscle mass, or loose fat/increase strength?? As I said to accomplish both of these at the same time is very difficult unless you are taking steroids.

When you are focused on mass gain (muscle), running occasionally, 6 miles a week (split between two days) is not a bad idea to keep your lungs in shape. When you are after muscle gains and you get crazy with cardio, you begin to walk a fine line. When doing cardio and you use up the carbs from your last meal, the first source of nutrients your body will go to is your muscles because they convert to energy quicker than fat does. based on that, you are cancelling out the benefits of lifting hard with the goal of muscle gain.

If you want to simply loose fat and get your muscles in shape but not necessarily get any substantial mass, do all the cardio you want. Depending on your body type loosing fat this way can be very quick and effective.


I combine these two methods in stages; currently I am in a bulking phase where I do essentially no cardio. Since my goal is to pack on additional mass in the form of muscle, I focus on lifting hard, quickly, and frequently, while making sure to take adequate rest. Additionally, nutrition is a whole other topic I will not get into right now but above all, nutrition is the most important part of getting in shape and attaining your goals. . In a month or so when I switch to a cutting phase, I will increase my cardio while adjusting my diet accordingly so I do not loose excess muscle (this is very difficult but with a strict diet and supplementation it is very possible).



A few last thoughts...your idea of doing running for one week, lifting the next is a bad idea for any type of goal....it is better to just balance your week by doing the activity suited for your goals. Finally, it is a great idea to supplement with protein but please make sure you become educated with nutrition otherwise you will be following the mfg. recommended usage and you will be getting little to nothing out of the product. Finally, supplements like hydroxycut are 100% ineffective...the old formulas of these thermogenic weight loss pills were based on the ECA stack (ephedrine, caffeine, aspirin)....the new legal formula is 100% bogus.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Running is the ultimate exercise. Humans evolved to do it.

On grass, soil, and sand. Running on any rigid hard surface (sidewalk, street, treadmill without shocks, etc) long term will wreak havoc your joints.

Humans can run on solid surfaces, such as pavement, over long periods without any ill effects, provided its done properly. Good fitting shoes are essential, as is a proper diet. Running on harder surfaces actually increases the physical strength of ones bones and tendons compared to zero-impact elliptical gliders.

Wolff's Law for Bones

Davis's Law for soft tissues

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Running is the ultimate exercise. Humans evolved to do it.

On grass, soil, and sand. Running on any rigid hard surface (sidewalk, street, treadmill without shocks, etc) long term will wreak havoc your joints.

Humans can run on solid surfaces, such as pavement, over long periods without any ill effects, provided its done properly. Good fitting shoes are essential, as is a proper diet. Running on harder surfaces actually increases the physical strength of ones bones and tendons compared to zero-impact elliptical gliders.

Wolff's Law for Bones

Davis's Law for soft tissues

To go along with proper fitting shoes, wear orthotics if you need them - you need to be biomechanically efficient.

If you run on a camber, such as a street, for a long period of time, be sure to balance by running on an opposing camber for a roughly equal amount of time. (i.e. one side of the street one way; the other side coming back). Otherwise you risk imbalance injuries (illiotibial band, for example).

To apply the laws you list above...

Run on a variety of surfaces - streets, grass, trails, etc. Sand and snow are good for developing balance and strength, but be careful as those surfaces can aggravate any nagging injuries (ankles, ITBs, etc.)

Slightly uneven surfaces help your feet, ankles, and muscles to adapt and strengthen constantly - that's why you shouldn't run on uniformly even surfaces such as treadmills regularly. Personally, I run on them only when it's dangerous to run outdoors (icy; lightning, etc.)

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Running is the ultimate exercise. Humans evolved to do it.

On grass, soil, and sand. Running on any rigid hard surface (sidewalk, street, treadmill without shocks, etc) long term will wreak havoc your joints.

Humans can run on solid surfaces, such as pavement, over long periods without any ill effects, provided its done properly. Good fitting shoes are essential, as is a proper diet. Running on harder surfaces actually increases the physical strength of ones bones and tendons compared to zero-impact elliptical gliders.

Wolff's Law for Bones

Davis's Law for soft tissues

Agreed.

The bones and muscles will benefit. It's the joints, cartilage, etc that take the pounding and the damage. Mixing the surfaces you run on can generally prevent this, and it takes a lot of running (20+ miles per week IIRC) on a hard surface to cause permanent damage.

It's a nice way to get in shape, but it can be overdone. You can do low impact stuff as long as your endurance holds out without much risk of permanent damage. I personally mix running and rowing, I run about 10 miles a week over 3 days, and row/Krav Maga the other 3.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Running is the ultimate exercise. Humans evolved to do it.

What? Horses evolved to run. Humans evolved to invent cars so we don't have to. Humans are terrible at running.

Anyway, my philosophy for weight loss is to lift to try and preserve as much muscle mass as possible and eat less. That's pretty much it. It's infinitely easier to simply not eat 600 calories than to try and run it off.