weird problem with several wall sockets

[nisryus]

So my wife complained that the living room wall sockets stopped working. I checked it with a night light and all of the wall sockets in the living room do have power, but very low voltage so the light was very dim.

Checked the breaker (without removing the panel), looks ok from the outside and there was no burning smell!

Funny thing is that the breaker for the living room also powers the wall socket inside the garage, as the living room is next to the garage.

Multimeter shows the garage wall socket has a steady 120 voltage. I could plug a blend in an dit would works. The wall sockets in the living room are below 110.

Could this be problem with the line connecting to the wall sockets in the living room? If it is the breaker, the socket in the garage should experiences the same voltage problem, right?

 

[herm0016]

sounds like a neutral issue. you have a loose connection or a neutral that is grounding out. turn off the breaker and open the garage outlet, check the connections. if they are back stabbed, put them on the screws or replace the socket. also, the garage outlet needs to be GFI. you can line side the living room, but it is code to have GFI in the garage. when was your place built?

 

[Paperdoc]

Voltage is not a really reliable measure of the condition of the wires and joints in a circuit. A voltmeter draws virtually no current, so it cannot detect a bad connection causing high resistance. On the other hand, a night light uses very low current, so if that shows low brightness, there certainly is a very bad connection somewhere.

To try to find the problem area, plug a normal lamp with a 100W bulb in it into a living room socket. It should work dimly according to your post. If you probe the other half of that outlet with the voltmeter, it probably will show low voltage. Leave the lamp plugged in and start checking voltages elsewhere.

First, try the night light in the garage. Also check Voltage. If it is low there, the problem is early in the circuit - either the breaker itself or inside the panel to start with. Check Voltage on the line from the breaker itself.

Next you need to figure out where ALL the lights and outlets on that circuit are. THEN figure out which one is fed first from the breaker. Go there and check voltage. Follow the sequence of outlets and light fixtures on this circuit, checking Voltage at each. When you find the start of low Voltage, the problem is in that box OR in the previous one. OR it may be in the actual cable behind the walls between the last good Voltage point and the low Voltage location.

All of this assumes you know how to use a Voltmeter safely AND you can work safely with electrical outlets and sockets when power is on. If you are NOT sure you can do this safely, do NOT start! Get a pro to do the job. 110 VAC CAN be fatal if handle incorrectly!

 

[nisryus]

Thx guys. I will try to find out which one has issue by testing them one by one. Hopefulyl wife won't have a heart attack lol. She was already afraid i will get electrocuted.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Turn the circuit off that powers the outlets. I think your problem is not a loose wire failing outlets. It could be just one and that is daisy chained to the other outlet that has weak power. Hot is black, neutral white and green is ground. Always connect the ground first. Make a hook and attach in a clockwise direction. A duplex outlet which is most outlets has two plugs. Hot wire posts (posts are the screws on the side of the outlet) are gold and neutral posts are silver. Keep your wires on the same side to avoid cross wiring. Get an outlet tester to make sure your wiring is correct when complete.

The garage outlet is closest to the breaker which means in your circuit, it's first outlet in the line that completes the circuit. That outlet is good registering 120v. Replace any outlet in your living room registering 110v. It could be a loose wire that is causing your problem but the safest thing to do is to replace the outlets. They do fail sometimes in mysterious or weird ways. Receiving some power is still a failed outlet.

 

[Red Squirrel]

To rule out bad wiring plug a big load like a heater while checking the voltage to see if you get a drop.

Could also be a bad neutral if it's a MWBC, basically if the neutral is loose/disconnected it would be putting two parts of the circuit in series with each other at 240v so depending on how balanced it is one side will get more voltage than the other. This is a bad situation for whatever is plugged in. I would isolate everything that is on that circuit and experiment by unplugging stuff then plugging things in. Try to stick with resistive loads until you figure out the issue so you don't damage any electronics. Might also just be easier to go to each outlet and check/tighten connections. Start with the breaker itself. If it's a double pole breaker that's also a good indication it's a MWBC (multi wire branch circuit).

 

[Paperdoc]

I would be very cautious about plugging in a heavy load (like an electric heater) because of what OP told us at the start. He says that a NIGHT LIGHT plugged in is too dim! That is a VERY small load and current. IF the problem is a poor high-resistance joint somewhere, connecting a large load to draw heavy amps can generate a LOT of heat at that bad connection! So, because he says that even a SMALL current device produces a noticeable impact, I suggested using only a 100 W lamp (still a bigger current draw than a night light) as the test load to create a measurable drop in voltage.

PLUS, the report did not make it clear that the SAME problem is or is not in the garage. The report was that a VOLTMETER in the garage shows normal Voltage. But if there is not load on the circuit, that Voltage tells you almost nothing. That is why I suggested connecting the test load (lamp) in the Living Room where he reports it DOES have an impact, and leaving that connected while he read Voltages at many points.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I would not leave it on, just run it for like 5 seconds while checking the voltage. Blow dryer on low might do the trick. Just hit it on for a sec with volt meter plugged into the same outlet.

 

[Hans Gruber]

I would not leave it on, just run it for like 5 seconds while checking the voltage. Blow dryer on low might do the trick. Just hit it on for a sec with volt meter plugged into the same outlet.

That is terrible advice. A good multimeter will show what is going on with his outlets. https://www.amazon.com/AstroAI-Multimeter-Resistance-Transistors-Temperature/dp/B071JL6LLL/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=JJL665OSFRYD&keywords=volt+meter+multimeter&qid=1699770002&sprefix=volt+meter+multimeter,aps,133&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

The OP has a bad outlet. The odds of a loose wire are very low considering the outlet is behind a fixed wall.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Keep in mind if there is no load a voltage check will not indicate a wiring fault. Resistance will only have effect when there is a load. Unless of course it's another type of fault like a floating neutral or even bad voltage coming in. If the voltage is indeed low even with no load, I would start checking all circuits too, maybe it's actually a problem with the incoming hydro and not that one circuit.

 

[Greenman]

That is terrible advice. A good multimeter will show what is going on with his outlets. https://www.amazon.com/AstroAI-Multimeter-Resistance-Transistors-Temperature/dp/B071JL6LLL/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=JJL665OSFRYD&keywords=volt+meter+multimeter&qid=1699770002&sprefix=volt+meter+multimeter,aps,133&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

The OP has a bad outlet. The odds of a loose wire are very low considering the outlet is behind a fixed wall.

A lose wire at an outlet or other connection is the most common reason for a string failure. It's also why building code requires every connection to be accessible.

 

[Paperdoc]

"Loose Wire" does not mean a wire or cable that is physically free to move around. It means a JUNCTION point where two or more wires are joined to make a solid electrical connection BUT that connection is bad with significant resistance between wires. The most common types of such joints are the screws (or push-in sockets) where wires attach to devices like switches or outlet fixtures, and multi-wire junctions using crimped connectors or "wire nuts". These normally are found INSIDE the wall mounting boxes for wiring devices or in octagonal junction boxes. As others have said, codes require that such locations always be accessible for exactly this reason - so that they can be inspected easily to find problems. A poor junction like that normally will produce problems downstream of the fault, and not BEFORE the fault in the circuit. Of course, it also is possible that the bad junction point is in the breaker panel, OR that the breaker itself is faulty. In this latter case the entire circuit will show the flaw symptoms.

Red Squirrel's proposed process would work IF you can have two people working together. For that scenario, you plug the Voltmeter into the LAST access point (wall outlet) and have someone watch the readings. Then Person #2 takes the high-load device (hair dryer?) around the circuit, starting from the first item after the breaker, and plugs it in briefly. A significant voltage drop means the load has been plugged in AFTER the fault and affects everything downstream.

If only ONE person is working, the plan needs to be reversed. The test load needs to be at the end of the circuit sequence and left plugged in so that it affects the entire circuit. (This is why I suggested a modest load for this situation with an apparent large resistance.) Then the single person goes through the circuit, starting at the breaker panel, and uses the voltmeter to check the voltage at each inspection point. A LOW voltage reading indicates that the fault it BEFORE this test point.

 

[NutBucket]

Why make it so complicated? Just identify every outlet on the circuit, turn off the breaker, remove each outlet and visually inspect every connection point.

 

[Paperdoc]

Yes, that may be all that is needed. SOMETIMES the poor connection is not obvious visually and the voltage readings can detect the problem. Further, such readings can be done without opening the device boxes, so you may be able to identify the ONE box you need to open and examine in detail.

 

[iRONic]

Wow, some of the suggestions in this thread…

DO NOT PLUG A HIGH LOAD DEVICE IN!!!

Keep it simple, just like NutBucket said.

 

[NutBucket]

I recall a few years back a family member had an outlet that was acting oddly. Similar to the OP, there were strange voltage measurements. Long story short I measured each outlet moving up the chain until I got to one that seemed normal. I removed that outlet and found the neutral was disconnected? I'm not exactly sure how anything that was plugged in downstream was working...must have a been a ground loop through a single device or something. And of course, still no way to know why it was disconnected in the first place. Basically it had been that way for well over a decade with no issues.

So, you never know what you might find

 

[Hans Gruber]

I feel very confident with an outlet tester. The faulty outlet would be easily found. The outlet testers are 95% reliable. There are only a few situations that can fool the outlet tester. I have 3 or 4 testers. It's good to have more than one for testing multiple outlets at the same time. It's not necessary though.

The biggest concern for DIY'er is reverse polarity or just plugging the wrong wires into the wrong screws.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Why make it so complicated? Just identify every outlet on the circuit, turn off the breaker, remove each outlet and visually inspect every connection point.

At this point that's probably the easiest bet just open up each outlet and redo the connections. Also if there are any backstabbed connections remove those and redo them properly using the screws.

If you see any burn marks along the way it will also be a good indicator you found the problem area. Replace the whole outlet in that case to play it safe. Hopefully there is no junction boxes in inaccessible or hard to access locations like the attic.

 

[herm0016]

so... do what the electrician suggested on the first reply.

 

[NutBucket]

I guess I should read the fine print

 

[nisryus]

Haven't had the time to check as I was away on a work trip. Will be home tomorrow night.

To answer Herm, the garage outlet is GFI and has no issue with anything I plugged in, be it hair dryer, night light.. etc.

 

[herm0016]

Haven't had the time to check as I was away on a work trip. Will be home tomorrow night.

To answer Herm, the garage outlet is GFI and has no issue with anything I plugged in, be it hair dryer, night light.. etc.

it would make sense then, if the outlets inside are wired after that outlet, that the connection problem is there. if the wire is shoved in holes in the back, change it to the screws, and check any other connections in the box. turn off the breaker first.

 

[Paperdoc]

Just a note that it is NOT clear from all these posts what the sequence of junction points is in this circuit. OP has not said he was able to trace that. Only clue is that Voltage reading in the Garage was normal. BUT as I said above, a voltmeter will NOT detect a bad connection causing low voltage unless there is a significant load on the circuit. The garage GFCI unit may NOT be the first outlet in this circuit.

 

[PowerEngineer]

True. The GFCI unit might not be the first outlet in the circuit, however it usually should be as the unit only extends ground fault protection to outlets further down the circuit.

 

[Paperdoc]

PowerEngineer is right, but that may not be the reason for that GFCI. Where I live, the electrical code requires that there be an outlet inside the garage for plugging in certain auto accessories and that it be protected by a GFCI. I know because I just wired a new garage, and I DID use that feature of the GFCI unit inside to extend its protection to some external outlets on that garage. However, if OP's garage GFCI is on the SAME circuit as several interior HOUSE outlets, those interior ones may NOT be fed from the GFCI's protected output. The may be simply on a separate branch of the circuit.