Weird Questions: Hyundai vs. Audi

[CrimsonChaos]

I am looking at the purchase of one of these two cars. I'd like some opinions on them from those who know:

* [$20,000] NEW 2009 Hyundai Sonata V4
* [$27,000] USED 2005 Audi A6 3.2 Quattro (Certified) with 34,734 miles

I test-drove both, and they both ride fine -- the Audi had some discoloration (possibly rust) on various parts of the underbody. The Audi had all sorts of "loaded" features -- like leather interior, power seats, sunroof, huge dashboard, dual temp controls, etc. The Hyundai had that new car smell, but otherwise pretty basic features.

So my question is - with the Audi being used, is it really worth $7,000 more than a new basic Hyundai? Do either of these cars have a bad track history with maintenance issues?

ALSO: I asked the Audi salesrep if he could show me proof that there was a warranty on the car being sold (since it was "Certified"), and he hemmed and hawed about it. He said there is no written warranty, that it's part of their "CPO" (Certified Pre-Owned) program. When I asked to show me something in writing, he got me some type of certification documentation for a completely different used car. Should I be concerned about this -- is this guy being shady, or am I nit-picking?

EDIT: One more thing -- should I take a mechanic with me to look at the Audi -- even if it is "Certified"?

 

[DonaldC]

On your certified question: If you don't trust the salesperson ask the used car manager. My car was advertised as certified and at closing they furnished me with paperwork confirming that. But my salesman didn't hesitate to confirm that the car was certified as I was inspecting it.

 

[DeviousTrap]

Originally posted by: CrimsonChaos
I test-drove both, and they both ride fine -- the Audi had some discoloration (possibly rust) on various parts of the underbody. The Audi had all sorts of "loaded" features -- like leather interior, power seats, sunroof, huge dashboard, dual temp controls, etc. The Hyundai had that new car smell, but otherwise pretty basic features.

So my question is - with the Audi being used, is it really worth $7,000 more than a new basic Hyundai? Do either of these cars have a bad track history with maintenance issues?

ALSO: I asked the Audi salesrep if he could show me proof that there was a warranty on the car being sold (since it was "Certified"), and he hemmed and hawed about it. He said there is no written warranty, that it's part of their "CPO" (Certified Pre-Owned) program. When I asked to show me something in writing, he got me some type of certification documentation for a completely different used car. Should I be concerned about this -- is this guy being shady, or am I nit-picking?

EDIT: One more thing -- should I take a mechanic with me to look at the Audi -- even if it is "Certified"?

You're comparing two vastly different cars. Before trying to figure out whether the Audi is worth $7,000 more than the Hyundai I'd suggest trying to figure out what you're looking for in your next car. The Sonata is a comfortable, but no-frills, point A to point B transportation appliance. It'll be reliable, get you wherever you want to go, and blend in with the crowd. The A6 is anything but a no-frills appliance. It is designed for the crowd of people that don't necessarily want blend in and it's the polar opposite in that it has all the creature comforts you could possibly want. It also does this with the expectation that the owner can afford to pay for it's significantly more expensive maintenance if he wants to get to work reliably every day.

If you can figure out which of those attributes you would prefer it will make this decision much easier. It'll also make it easier to look at other cars in the market, there are plenty of basic $20k appliances and tons of high-$20k used luxury cars that are worth considering.

As far as the particular Audi that you're looking at, it's priced quite high. For not too much more money you should be able to find a 2006/7. You'd be amazed if you knew what the true deprecation curve is for these cars, if you can deal without the certified warranty you can get the same car for under $20k. 2005 was the first model year for the current generation A6 (the C6 platform), and a lot of quirks/bugs were fixed as the model matured. This isn't to say that the current generation A6 is unreliable in any way, just as with any luxury car, it never hurts to get the newest one you can afford.

If the dealer you're currently working with is worthy of your business they shouldn't hesitate to let you borrow the car for a few hours to take it to your own mechanic for a check-up. The certification is really only an extension of the car's warranty. It's not unreasonable to expect that the dealer will only do the bare-minimum to bring a car up to certifiable spec, as after that point any expense associated with fixing the car is Audi's responsibility. If for some reason you don't trust a car (and mismatched panels is a good one) then definitely get it checked out by someone else before you spend your hard-earned dollars.

 

[CrimsonChaos]

Originally posted by: DonaldC
On your certified question: If you don't trust the salesperson ask the used car manager. My car was advertised as certified and at closing they furnished me with paperwork confirming that. But my salesman didn't hesitate to confirm that the car was certified as I was inspecting it.

Yes my salesrep "confirmed" it is Certified (in that he said it was) - but he looked insulted that I'd be asking for documented proof. I didn't want to wait until "closing" really - and it shouldn't be terribly difficult to produce documentation that the car is certified -- if in fact it is.

 

[CrimsonChaos]

Originally posted by: DeviousTrap
You're comparing two vastly different cars. Before trying to figure out whether the Audi is worth $7,000 more than the Hyundai I'd suggest trying to figure out what you're looking for in your next car. The Sonata is a comfortable, but no-frills, point A to point B transportation appliance. It'll be reliable, get you wherever you want to go, and blend in with the crowd. The A6 is anything but a no-frills appliance. It is designed for the crowd of people that don't necessarily want blend in and it's the polar opposite in that it has all the creature comforts you could possibly want. It also does this with the expectation that the owner can afford to pay for it's significantly more expensive maintenance if he wants to get to work reliably every day.

If you can figure out which of those attributes you would prefer it will make this decision much easier. It'll also make it easier to look at other cars in the market, there are plenty of basic $20k appliances and tons of high-$20k used luxury cars that are worth considering.

As far as the particular Audi that you're looking at, it's priced quite high. For not too much more money you should be able to find a 2006/7. You'd be amazed if you knew what the true deprecation curve is for these cars, if you can deal without the certified warranty you can get the same car for under $20k. 2005 was the first model year for the current generation A6 (the C6 platform), and a lot of quirks/bugs were fixed as the model matured. This isn't to say that the current generation A6 is unreliable in any way, just as with any luxury car, it never hurts to get the newest one you can afford.

If the dealer you're currently working with is worthy of your business they shouldn't hesitate to let you borrow the car for a few hours to take it to your own mechanic for a check-up. The certification is really only an extension of the car's warranty. It's not unreasonable to expect that the dealer will only do the bare-minimum to bring a car up to certifiable spec, as after that point any expense associated with fixing the car is Audi's responsibility. If for some reason you don't trust a car (and mismatched panels is a good one) then definitely get it checked out by someone else before you spend your hard-earned dollars.

Thanks for the advice. What do you think the Audi should retail at if not $27K? What other cars do you recommend at both the $20K Utility (as you call them) range, and the $25K+ used luxury range?

Does Audi have high maintenance costs? Are they unreliable cars?

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: CrimsonChaos

Originally posted by: DeviousTrap
You're comparing two vastly different cars. Before trying to figure out whether the Audi is worth $7,000 more than the Hyundai I'd suggest trying to figure out what you're looking for in your next car. The Sonata is a comfortable, but no-frills, point A to point B transportation appliance. It'll be reliable, get you wherever you want to go, and blend in with the crowd. The A6 is anything but a no-frills appliance. It is designed for the crowd of people that don't necessarily want blend in and it's the polar opposite in that it has all the creature comforts you could possibly want. It also does this with the expectation that the owner can afford to pay for it's significantly more expensive maintenance if he wants to get to work reliably every day.

If you can figure out which of those attributes you would prefer it will make this decision much easier. It'll also make it easier to look at other cars in the market, there are plenty of basic $20k appliances and tons of high-$20k used luxury cars that are worth considering.

As far as the particular Audi that you're looking at, it's priced quite high. For not too much more money you should be able to find a 2006/7. You'd be amazed if you knew what the true deprecation curve is for these cars, if you can deal without the certified warranty you can get the same car for under $20k. 2005 was the first model year for the current generation A6 (the C6 platform), and a lot of quirks/bugs were fixed as the model matured. This isn't to say that the current generation A6 is unreliable in any way, just as with any luxury car, it never hurts to get the newest one you can afford.

If the dealer you're currently working with is worthy of your business they shouldn't hesitate to let you borrow the car for a few hours to take it to your own mechanic for a check-up. The certification is really only an extension of the car's warranty. It's not unreasonable to expect that the dealer will only do the bare-minimum to bring a car up to certifiable spec, as after that point any expense associated with fixing the car is Audi's responsibility. If for some reason you don't trust a car (and mismatched panels is a good one) then definitely get it checked out by someone else before you spend your hard-earned dollars.

Thanks for the advice. What do you think the Audi should retail at if not $27K? What other cars do you recommend at both the $20K Utility (as you call them) range, and the $25K+ used luxury range?

Does Audi have high maintenance costs? Are they unreliable cars?

I guess you don't research cars before you buy them. Audi has a horrible reputation as far as reliability goes.

 

[Bignate603]

The Hyundai will be far cheaper to own. $7k cheaper up front, a long warranty, and no question about the warranty being valid. On top of that I would expect the Hyundai to be more reliable than the Audi.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: CrimsonChaos

Originally posted by: DeviousTrap
You're comparing two vastly different cars. Before trying to figure out whether the Audi is worth $7,000 more than the Hyundai I'd suggest trying to figure out what you're looking for in your next car. The Sonata is a comfortable, but no-frills, point A to point B transportation appliance. It'll be reliable, get you wherever you want to go, and blend in with the crowd. The A6 is anything but a no-frills appliance. It is designed for the crowd of people that don't necessarily want blend in and it's the polar opposite in that it has all the creature comforts you could possibly want. It also does this with the expectation that the owner can afford to pay for it's significantly more expensive maintenance if he wants to get to work reliably every day.

If you can figure out which of those attributes you would prefer it will make this decision much easier. It'll also make it easier to look at other cars in the market, there are plenty of basic $20k appliances and tons of high-$20k used luxury cars that are worth considering.

As far as the particular Audi that you're looking at, it's priced quite high. For not too much more money you should be able to find a 2006/7. You'd be amazed if you knew what the true deprecation curve is for these cars, if you can deal without the certified warranty you can get the same car for under $20k. 2005 was the first model year for the current generation A6 (the C6 platform), and a lot of quirks/bugs were fixed as the model matured. This isn't to say that the current generation A6 is unreliable in any way, just as with any luxury car, it never hurts to get the newest one you can afford.

If the dealer you're currently working with is worthy of your business they shouldn't hesitate to let you borrow the car for a few hours to take it to your own mechanic for a check-up. The certification is really only an extension of the car's warranty. It's not unreasonable to expect that the dealer will only do the bare-minimum to bring a car up to certifiable spec, as after that point any expense associated with fixing the car is Audi's responsibility. If for some reason you don't trust a car (and mismatched panels is a good one) then definitely get it checked out by someone else before you spend your hard-earned dollars.

Thanks for the advice. What do you think the Audi should retail at if not $27K? What other cars do you recommend at both the $20K Utility (as you call them) range, and the $25K+ used luxury range?

Does Audi have high maintenance costs? Are they unreliable cars?

I guess you don't research cars before you buy them. Audi has a horrible reputation as far as reliability goes.

Land Rover has a horrible reputation,
Audi sits around the 2/3 mark or so.

If you're cross shopping hyundai and an audi, you should buy a hyundai.

 

[DeviousTrap]

Originally posted by: CrimsonChaos
Thanks for the advice. What do you think the Audi should retail at if not $27K? What other cars do you recommend at both the $20K Utility (as you call them) range, and the $25K+ used luxury range?

Does Audi have high maintenance costs? Are they unreliable cars?

Assuming you're not interested in compact cars (civic, etc.):

$20K: Hyundai SonataHonda Accord, Toyota Camry, Nissan Altima, Mazda 6, VW Passat, etc.
$25-30K: Audi A6, BMW 530i/xi, Lexus ES, Mercedes E-Class, etc.

All of the luxury cars will have higher running costs associated with them than the new cheaper ones. A typical saying goes something along the lines of, if you couldn't afford to maintain a $50k car new than you can't afford to maintain it as a used car. This isn't to say that they're that up-keep is going to be that unreasonable, it just might be more than what you're used to.

As far as zerocool84's statement about Audi's reputation, a blanket statement like that isn't always valid. There haven't really been any serious reliability issues with any modern Audi's, but a reputation is a lot harder to hurt than to improve to many people have stigma's associated with all sorts of car brands. There haven't really been any problems historically with the A6 cars, but there most definitely have been some issues that were well publicized with the A4 1.8T engines, as well as the 2.7T engines used in early S4s. Other than that, I wouldn't expect anything significant outside of electronic glitches that really apply to all German brands. How long are you planning on keeping the car?

As far as the price, $23.5 would be more than fair, but if the dealer thinks that you were previously considering the car as $27k then you can expect a nice fight on your hands. I don't know where in Ohio you are, but if you are still interested in the A6, here are just a few ideas for you:

1 - This car already has the certified warranty.
2 3 4 - These cars are a bit higher in mileage, but there are plenty of others that I just didn't link. If you were prepared to spend $27k, you may want to consider buying one of these, sticking $10k in an interest bearing account (as a well to sell-insure oneself against repair costs) and then selling it after a year or two. With a good pre-purchase inspection chances are that you'll come out ahead ($$-wise) than had you paid the premium for a warranty.

Originally posted by: halik
Land Rover has a horrible reputation,
Audi sits around the 2/3 mark or so.

If you're cross shopping hyundai and an audi, you should buy a hyundai.

Honestly, halik is probably right.

 

[CrimsonChaos]

What do you think about the 2009 Mazda6 compared to the 2009 Nissan Altima? Are they relatively comparable? Does one outshine the other one in any particular areas? Yes I have read some of the reviews on edmunds.com, but they seem to be pretty much the same to me. Any advice?

 

[marrr]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I guess you don't research cars before you buy them. Audi has a horrible reputation as far as reliability goes.

I love my audi!

 

[DonaldC]

Originally posted by: CrimsonChaos

Originally posted by: DonaldC
On your certified question: If you don't trust the salesperson ask the used car manager. My car was advertised as certified and at closing they furnished me with paperwork confirming that. But my salesman didn't hesitate to confirm that the car was certified as I was inspecting it.

Yes my salesrep "confirmed" it is Certified (in that he said it was) - but he looked insulted that I'd be asking for documented proof. I didn't want to wait until "closing" really - and it shouldn't be terribly difficult to produce documentation that the car is certified -- if in fact it is.

You've got a problem I can't help you with.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: mar23

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I guess you don't research cars before you buy them. Audi has a horrible reputation as far as reliability goes.

I love my audi!

I love Audi's too as well but they are known for not being reliable.

 

[lastig21]

I don't care for the old body style Audi's, and have never cared for the Sonatas. If those were my only 2 options, I would save my cash.

At $27k in Houston, you can get a brand new 2009 Acura TSX (non-tech package). That might be a good option for you. The same price as the Audi, a car that should be more reliable than the Audi, will have many of the same interior luxuries as the Audi, but also comes with that new car smell

 

[JulesMaximus]

I'd never buy an Audi.

I'd never buy a Hyundai either.

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: lastig21
I don't care for the old body style Audi's, and have never cared for the Sonatas. If those were my only 2 options, I would save my cash.

At $27k in Houston, you can get a brand new 2009 Acura TSX (non-tech package). That might be a good option for you. The same price as the Audi, a car that should be more reliable than the Audi, will have many of the same interior luxuries as the Audi, but also comes with that new car smell

for real. i'd say the TSX is way nicer than a used audi from 05. unless you really want the audi badge to wear around, you should consider the tsx

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: lastig21
I don't care for the old body style Audi's, and have never cared for the Sonatas. If those were my only 2 options, I would save my cash.

At $27k in Houston, you can get a brand new 2009 Acura TSX (non-tech package). That might be a good option for you. The same price as the Audi, a car that should be more reliable than the Audi, will have many of the same interior luxuries as the Audi, but also comes with that new car smell

for real. i'd say the TSX is way nicer than a used audi from 05. unless you really want the audi badge to wear around, you should consider the tsx

I read that the new TSX doesn't handle like Hondas typically handle. Supposedly the steering is a bit numb. I read that about the Accord too. I hope Honda isn't about to start copying Toyota with that crap

Anyways, for $27k, the Acura is the better deal, but I'd narrow down exactly how much you want to spend. $7k is a lot of money. Do you want to spend $20k or $27k? There are a lot of good options, even quite a few new ones, for $20k.

 

[ViviTheMage]

wow, that Audi is OVERPRICED.

I got my 2006 A4 2.0T 6 SPD, 30k miles, loaded, withe everything but navigation for 22k after TTL and whatnot, with a certified used/2 year extended warranty. That was early last year...or maybe I got a helluva deal

 

[angry hampster]

If you want a reliable, used luxury car, get an Acura TSX or a BMW 325.

 

[zoiks]

Get a G35. Best of all worlds

 

[rh71]

the brand new car in your case.

 

[krunchykrome]

$27K for a used Audi; no thank you

I don't think I'd ever buy a used german car; I might buy a new german car one day ....might being the key word

How about an Accord? Did you test drive a new one?

Or, for $27K, you can get a new Audi A3

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: mar23

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I guess you don't research cars before you buy them. Audi has a horrible reputation as far as reliability goes.

I love my audi!

My SiL loves her. I do not, as I work on it.

Last month was a coil pack

Before that was a fuel pump

Before that was electrial problems with the tail lights

Before that...

 

[lastig21]

Originally posted by: Strk

I read that the new TSX doesn't handle like Hondas typically handle. Supposedly the steering is a bit numb. I read that about the Accord too. I hope Honda isn't about to start copying Toyota with that crap

Anyways, for $27k, the Acura is the better deal, but I'd narrow down exactly how much you want to spend. $7k is a lot of money. Do you want to spend $20k or $27k? There are a lot of good options, even quite a few new ones, for $20k.

I was pleased with the handling of the TSX when I test drove it. I own a 2005 Accord, and the TSX had much tighter steering response, but did remove a bit of the feedback through the steering wheel. The suspension is sporty, but definitely not jarring (stiffer than my Accord though). I think it would be fine for long roadtrips and for running around town. I liked it just fine, and couldn't imagine that it would be less satisfying than a Hyundai Sonata.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: mar23

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I guess you don't research cars before you buy them. Audi has a horrible reputation as far as reliability goes.

I love my audi!

My SiL loves her. I do not, as I work on it.

Last month was a coil pack

Before that was a fuel pump

Before that was electrial problems with the tail lights

Before that...

the fuel pump is easily explained - your sister drove too frequently with too little gas, causing the pump to repeatedly overheat, leading to failure. just make her fill at 1/4 tank and you'll never run into that problem.

same thing happened to my sister when she was driving our VW passat for a while.