Welcome Back, MINIMUM PURCHASE signs for Credit Card Usage!!

[Modelworks]

I can see this being good for small business because processing fees on credit cards for merchants are based on volume. The more you do the better the rate is for them .

My brother accepts credit cards but most of his customers use cash . So for every purchase of $100 it cost him $1


Edit:
I just asked him more about it.
He pays 1.69% per purchase + 25 cents per transaction + $12 statement fee

 

[misle]

Why is it up to the government to decide what retailers will accept for payment?

 

[marvdmartian]

Small businesses were already paying hefty fees to offer credit card payment options, now this might just drive more of them to stop offering to take credit & debit cards. By offering this "fix" to the credit card "problem", it looks as though they're just going to drive this economy back to a more cash-based version, like it was last century. Way to go, forward thinking lawmakers!!

Makes you wonder if that wasn't their intent, though. Keeps the US Mint in business for a long time to come. :hmm:

 

[Born2bwire]

The stupid part is that handling physical money is just as expensive as the card fees. Do you know how much its costs for a brinks truck to come to your bhusiness? Holy shit man, lots. If anything, they should give a cc discount when spending large amounts.

It's completely voluntary on the retailers part. If they don't want a minimum they don't have to stipulate one. It does at least give them the option of specifying one. This seems perfectly fine to me. It isn't forcing any retailer to change their policies but it does give them more freedom when dealing with credit card transactions.

 

[moparacer]

Small businesses were already paying hefty fees to offer credit card payment options, now this might just drive more of them to stop offering to take credit & debit cards. By offering this "fix" to the credit card "problem", it looks as though they're just going to drive this economy back to a more cash-based version, like it was last century. Way to go, forward thinking lawmakers!!

Makes you wonder if that wasn't their intent, though. Keeps the US Mint in business for a long time to come. :hmm:

I know first hand about all the fees associated with taking credit cards.

Every time I read the monthly statement I want to peel the card stickers off the shop window and say the heck with it.

 

[Brainonska511]

yeah because 20$ isn't enough depending on where you live. In DC-metro area, 20$ might last you a single day. ATM fees of 4$ adds up real quick, also going out of your way to get to an ATM is not convenient. Even if you were to try to minimize the fees and take out money 200$ (for example) at a time, carrying 200$ in cash constantly is not comfortable.

I don't spend money willy-nilly, so I wouldn't know. I don't buy lunch regularly - I make it at home and bring it with me. I don't buy coffee regularly - I just make my own with breakfast at home.

And you don't have to carry $200 in cash. You can carry what you need for the day and keep the rest at home. That way, you can use your own bank's ATM (or find another bank that has more convenient ATMs or something).

And because of the amendment's "can apply" wording, it doesn't mean that everyone is going to be putting CC minimums in place. Just some places will utilize the option because they're tired of losing money on small purchases.

 

[lokiju]

I don't see this as an issue. Just use a debt card for small stuff.

 

[kami333]

Out of boredom, I've worked a few days at the pizza shop. I'm amazed at the number of people who will use a debit or credit card for $1 and $2 orders. They'll order just a can of pepsi, and use the card for it. Then, 5 minutes later, they'll come up and get something else, then use the card again. There's a per transaction fee, as well as a small percent to businesses (which is ridiculous for what it actually must cost a company for these electronic transactions.)

I do that sometimes, ring up multiple small purchases. Though I try to limit it to chains and other large retailers.

It's because Chase changed their Freedom card rewards and now it gives me 10 bonus points per transaction. Most months I have more rewards points from the transaction bonus than from actual spending


While it sucks, I think it was inevitable. Just like free checking, or rewards cards, or 0% for life balance transfers; it was too good to last. Though I have a feeling it's going to be mainly small businesses that implement minimum purchases and all it's going to accomplish is drive consumers towards larger retailers that won't have limits, some of whom are offering discounts to use their card (ie Target plans to offer 5% discounts for using their card). Why would I risk stopping at Mom and Pops X Store and not have enough cash when I can go to Walmart/Target/etc instead and not have to worry about it? And while many smaller stores carry specialty items that larger ones don't normally carry, if I have to plan ahead to carry cash I might just consider ordering it off the internet instead.

 

[mfenn]

While it sucks, I think it was inevitable. Just like free checking, or rewards cards, or 0% for life balance transfers; it was too good to last. Though I have a feeling it's going to be mainly small businesses that implement minimum purchases and all it's going to accomplish is drive consumers towards larger retailers that won't have limits, some of whom are offering discounts to use their card (ie Target plans to offer 5% discounts for using their card). Why would I risk stopping at Mom and Pops X Store and not have enough cash when I can go to Walmart/Target/etc instead and not have to worry about it? And while many smaller stores carry specialty items that larger ones don't normally carry, if I have to plan ahead to carry cash I might just consider ordering it off the internet instead.

Pretty much this. I can understand the small business owner's reasoning for not wanting to take cards, but he's going to end up fucking himself in the end.

 

[kranky]

Pretty much this. I can understand the small business owner's reasoning for not wanting to take cards, but he's going to end up fucking himself in the end.

How? I assume each merchant is smart enough to set the minimum CC purchase at a number that will eliminate money-losing transactions, and would make an effort to explain to customers why it is necessary. Seems to me that if a merchant finds a way to eliminate money-losing transactions, that isn't going to cause any harm.

I think the bluster and outrage is way overblown in this thread. It's rare for me to have a sub-$5 transaction. If I'm a regular customer of a store, it's probably because it's convenient to me and I like the service. So for the handful of sub-$5 purchases I make at places I regularly shop, it's easier for me to carry a little cash than it is to go out of my way to another store which may or may not have a minimum for a CC purchase. Sometimes I might choose to buy an extra item or two to push me over the minimum, and as it's something I would have purchased eventually anyway (gotta have Altoids!) I'm not suffering.

I choose not to have a debit card so for me it's either cash or credit. I have no problem carrying a little cash. There's no chance I would rather drive to another store which is likely to be less convenient instead of having a few dollars in my pocket. And I SURE as heck wouldn't go to a Walmart or Target to make a sub-$5 purchase I could have made from a store on my way to/from home.

 

[Fritzo]

I don't see this as an issue. Just use a debt card for small stuff.

Most debit cards can be used as credit cards to avoid bank fees. Most banks have a limit of 4-10 PIN sales transactions before they start charging you.

 

[Fritzo]

How? I assume each merchant is smart enough to set the minimum CC purchase at a number that will eliminate money-losing transactions, and would make an effort to explain to customers why it is necessary. Seems to me that if a merchant finds a way to eliminate money-losing transactions, that isn't going to cause any harm.

I think the bluster and outrage is way overblown in this thread. It's rare for me to have a sub-$5 transaction. If I'm a regular customer of a store, it's probably because it's convenient to me and I like the service. So for the handful of sub-$5 purchases I make at places I regularly shop, it's easier for me to carry a little cash than it is to go out of my way to another store which may or may not have a minimum for a CC purchase. Sometimes I might choose to buy an extra item or two to push me over the minimum, and as it's something I would have purchased eventually anyway (gotta have Altoids!) I'm not suffering.

I choose not to have a debit card so for me it's either cash or credit. I have no problem carrying a little cash. There's no chance I would rather drive to another store which is likely to be less convenient instead of having a few dollars in my pocket. And I SURE as heck wouldn't go to a Walmart or Target to make a sub-$5 purchase I could have made from a store on my way to/from home.

You said sub-$5....most places with limits post sub $10 transactions. How many of those do you make?

I know I end up not going to stores that have limits like that.

 

[Numenorean]

Most debit cards can be used as credit cards to avoid bank fees. Most banks have a limit of 4-10 PIN sales transactions before they start charging you.

What kind of shitty bank is that?

I can make as many debit card transactions as I want.

 

[jlee]

What kind of shitty bank is that?

I can make as many debit card transactions as I want.

This.

 

[Chaotic42]

This. Those who are crying bitter tears of outrage about this need to change their entitlement diapers.

Entitlement? Really? For not wanting to use an outdated form of currency?

 

[Bignate603]

Alright, I may be old-fashioned, but I ALWAYS have at least some cash on me. Pretty much all of the stores that I shop at on a regular basis are small Mom & Pop joints that have had a minimum for as long as I've been shopping at them, so I tend to have a small amount of cash on me at all times. I'm not saying I haven't done it before, but I really feel stupid charging, say, less than $5 worth of stuff. Honestly, instituting a purchase minimum doesn't really bother me.

I do too, but that 40 or 50 bucks in my pocket may have been taken out 3 or 4 months ago. I keep it for the random occurrences when I need it but that happens so rarely that I never actually use it.

 

[Chaotic42]

My friend is the manager of McDonalds. The money truck comes by his store once per week.
Lower managers count money each shift and deposit it in the safe (it has a drop slot but cannot be opened by any of the lower managers). After a week, the safe has more than $10,000 in it. Would you really want one of your employees hauling around 10k in cash? Would you want him doing this every week? Of course you wouldn't. That's why you hire a money truck.

The money truck also delivers new coins. You didn't think change magically showed up at the store did you?

I worked at several McDonald's for years and they all had managers doing dropoffs and getting coins. Even the busiest ones never had trucks.

 

[Fritzo]

What kind of shitty bank is that?

I can make as many debit card transactions as I want.

A large number of banks do this. Because it doesn't happen to you you think it's uncommon.

Other issues with using PINs vs going through Visa/MC:

- There may be a delay it the charge posting, causing balance issues
- PIN transactions are not covered by Visa/MC's fraud insurance
- Security risk- your PIN is usually typed in while in line, so other people can see it
- The merchant has the right to add a transaction fee for PIN transactions

etc. Cash is a dying form of payment. Some services don't even accept cash anymore (we're one of them). Businesses with fee problems with their CC merchant bank just need to find another provider that charges reasonable fees.

 

[Numenorean]

A large number of banks do this. Because it doesn't happen to you you think it's uncommon.

Other issues with using PINs vs going through Visa/MC:

- There may be a delay it the charge posting, causing balance issues
- PIN transactions are not covered by Visa/MC's fraud insurance
- Security risk- your PIN is usually typed in while in line, so other people can see it
- The merchant has the right to add a transaction fee for PIN transactions

etc. Cash is a dying form of payment. Some services don't even accept cash anymore (we're one of them). Businesses with fee problems with their CC merchant bank just need to find another provider that charges reasonable fees.

Because you have a bank that does it, I'm supposed to feel sorry for you because you can't bother to use one that doesn't?

Delay in charge posting....causing balance issues? How the hell does it cause balance issues? Do you live on the edge such that a few transactions will cause you to overdraw? If so, that's hardly the fault of a debit transaction taking longer to post.

Security risk? I haven't noticed anyone bothering to stand too close to me while I'm putting a PIN in. Maybe you live in a sea of criminal assholes.

The merchant can add a transaction fee? Well...nowhere that I have ever used it does....so this is a non issue.

 

[Bignate603]

A large number of banks do this. Because it doesn't happen to you you think it's uncommon.

Other issues with using PINs vs going through Visa/MC:

- There may be a delay it the charge posting, causing balance issues
- PIN transactions are not covered by Visa/MC's fraud insurance
- Security risk- your PIN is usually typed in while in line, so other people can see it
- The merchant has the right to add a transaction fee for PIN transactions

etc. Cash is a dying form of payment. Some services don't even accept cash anymore (we're one of them). Businesses with fee problems with their CC merchant bank just need to find another provider that charges reasonable fees.

Are you trying to spend every last dime in your account? Why would a few day delay in a charge posting cause you to overrun your balance?
Also, what does it matter if somebody in line can see your pin? Unless they skim your card to get the data off of it the pin is useless. It's significantly more likely that your data will get stolen by a skimmer stuck onto an ATM than by somebody standing next to you in the grocery store.

 

[Eli]

Many rural places do this anyway. I don't really see it as a big deal.

 

[Platypus]

I'm indifferent. Lots of places tried to pull this shit before this law went into effect and I just choose not to patronize those places. It'd be kneejerk to think that now its going to be way more widespread but it's certainly a possibility. As usual, I will just choose not to do business with them. Hopefully business owners will deal with the fact that taking cards is just part of the cost of doing business instead of trying to pass the buck on to consumers. Luckily I live in Chicago so it's not really that complicated to just walk down the street to the next store. I'm also not one to charge a pack of gum.. but if you're going to tell me there's a $10 minimum then I'll just find somewhere else to spend my money... pretty simple.

 

[shortylickens]

For you guys who like small purchases, use a Check Card or Debit Card.

/debate

 

[notposting]

All the crybabies whining about the cut into their profits on small charges keep forgetting about the fact that if you didn't take the CCs you wouldn't be getting any of my larger orders either.

I've been steadily eliminating gas stations that have the "cash discount" pricing as well. F them I'll go to a station where I can hop out, swipe, and be done with it. And a card transaction doesn't take long when it's an integrated system--swipe....bzzt receipt to customer, done. No signing for $8 charge, no 2 receipts, one for the cash drawer etc.

I like being able to buy an overpriced pack of gum for $2.50 if I need to.

Fucking move forward you 18th century technotards.

 

[slag]

Because customers are stupid fuck tards who'd only listen if Visa or MC directly told them it was legal. When I worked retail I'd have people saying "this is bullshit you won't let me get 2 99 cent bags of chips on my mastercard!" After explaining that after our charges from MC we'd lose about .15 cents on the transaction "so?" If anything MC/Visa sending an across the board minimum will be perfect.

Thats the cost of doing business. For every person who spends under 5 bucks, there are just as many who spend $20.00 or more. Deal with it.