went from AMD to Intel...VERY IMPRESSED! 1.8A@2.7ghz!

[GenTarkin]

I was a diehard AMD fan for the longest time, I still am. Although while I was an AMD fan, I really thought the P4 sucked, which LETS FACE IT...at its first release the P4 did suck.
my last AMD piece was a Athlon XP 1900+ oced to 2100+ speed on a Epox 8k3a+. It was nice, I was running it around 400mhz FSB with memory at 400mhz also...the system was fast. I had the AX-7 on it with a 80mm Delta fan...thing was loud and blew tons of air around in that case lol.

I figured it was time for a uprgrade, started lookin into P4 overclockin and was amazed to see the 1.6a and 1.8a's sitting such high clocks.
Then it was time for price comparison lol! a 2700+ averages around 250-300$, P4 1.8A averaged around 140$ even though your not garunteed 2.7ghz with that P4, I still took a shot.
It was definatly worth the money, and I am using the same ram I Was with my athlon in the P4 system, its running flawless.
Northwood 1.8A@2.7ghz, 600mhz FSB, 400mhz memory, 1.8V according to BIOS, dont know true voltage. Its running on EPOX's 4PEA+ board, I love this board!. Idle temp around 40C and max usage temp is around 46-48, Not bad for that voltage. I bought that Vantec THD fan for it. It runs nice and quiet compared to my AX-7 LOL.
my score in 3dmark2001 went up another 1300points from my athlon system.
my pcmark2k2 scores went up massively, and the memory score increased a lot, I am guessing thats due to the P4's 512kb lvl 2 cache.
games perform quite better also.

Overall, I never thought Id make the switch, but for the money and the OC it got me, I am really happy...hehe
pretty much the point of this post.

 

[nealh]

I would lower that vcore...there are reports of too much voltage on these P4 and the chip dying...the rcommend by many of the hard core o/cers here is no more than 1.7v

 

[ChampionAtTufshop]

to check actual voltage look into mbm5

 

[oldfart]

Yes, 1.7 actual measured Vcore is what is normally considered max. 1.8 is pretty high.

 

[ChampionAtTufshop]

Originally posted by: oldfart
Yes, 1.7 actual measured Vcore is what is normally considered max. 1.8 is pretty high.

yah, if you have any intent of keeping the cpu live for more than a few months (worse case scenario) you should look into lowering vcore

iwth northwoods its not the temperature that kills them, its the voltage
gate oxide breakdown or somethng along those lines is the technical name for the condition

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: ChampionAtTufshop

Originally posted by: oldfart
Yes, 1.7 actual measured Vcore is what is normally considered max. 1.8 is pretty high.

yah, if you have any intent of keeping the cpu live for more than a few months (worse case scenario) you should look into lowering vcore

Actually, at 1.8v, he'd be lucky to keep his CPU running at that speed for even one month.

Btw, do all of you recycle your cycles?

 

[Challenger]

Originally posted by: ChampionAtTufshop

Originally posted by: oldfart
Yes, 1.7 actual measured Vcore is what is normally considered max. 1.8 is pretty high.

yah, if you have any intent of keeping the cpu live for more than a few months (worse case scenario) you should look into lowering vcore

iwth northwoods its not the temperature that kills them, its the voltage
gate oxide breakdown or somethng along those lines is the technical name for the condition

I had my 1.6a @2240 1.7Vcore for about eight months and I just RMAd it cause it was starting to fail:Q Now I have one that I bought here(haven't gotten the replacement CPU yet)running @2400 1.575Vcore let's see how long this one lasts

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: Challenger

Originally posted by: ChampionAtTufshop

Originally posted by: oldfart
Yes, 1.7 actual measured Vcore is what is normally considered max. 1.8 is pretty high.

yah, if you have any intent of keeping the cpu live for more than a few months (worse case scenario) you should look into lowering vcore

iwth northwoods its not the temperature that kills them, its the voltage
gate oxide breakdown or somethng along those lines is the technical name for the condition

I had my 1.6a @2240 1.7Vcore for about eight months and I just RMAd it cause it was starting to fail:Q Now I have one that I bought here(haven't gotten the replacement CPU yet)running @2400 1.575Vcore let's see how long this one lasts

You RMA'd a CPU after eight months when you were running it way out of spec and broke the warranty? Overclocking your computer carries a degree of risk along with it, if you aren't willing to assume the risk, don't overclock.

 

[Idoxash]

"I had my 1.6a @2240 1.7Vcore for about eight months and I just RMAd it cause it was starting to fail Now I have one that I bought here(haven't gotten the replacement CPU yet)running @2400 1.575Vcore let's see how long this one lasts "

ya the reasone why some of us has to pay out our arse to buy buy computer parts online anymore! They should start testting these things before they let them be rma....

 

[GenTarkin]

WOW! THANKS GUYS I didnt know that. I knew these processors were more voltage sensetive, but I thought that was to the point of temperature wise.
Thanks for tellin me to lower it....
I lowered it to 1.7v in the BIOS which is prolly 1.65 MBM5 switches back and forth between 1.65 and 1.68 around there.

Is this a safer voltage?
I had to downclock processor 100mhz, but I figure its worth savin the processors life.

Thanks again.

 

[Egrimm]

MUCH safer voltage, 1.7 or below is what seems to be acceptable although a few people have run 1.8+ for a long time many have had dead cpus with 1.7+

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: GenTarkin
WOW! THANKS GUYS I didnt know that. I knew these processors were more voltage sensetive, but I thought that was to the point of temperature wise.
Thanks for tellin me to lower it....
I lowered it to 1.7v in the BIOS which is prolly 1.65 MBM5 switches back and forth between 1.65 and 1.68 around there.

Is this a safer voltage?
I had to downclock processor 100mhz, but I figure its worth savin the processors life.

Thanks again.

Is that idle or load? If idle, it should be fine. There are several here who have been running their CPU at 1.7v for several months with no problems. Personally, I don't feel like going over about 1.62v (idle), but I'm a tad more conservative on that than most here.

 

[GenTarkin]

OK, what I did was run sandra burn in wizard couple times and I monitored the activity in MBM5 every 5 seconds.
at idle according to MBM5 the CPU runs 1.68V at about 38-39C
When the burn in wizard kicks in....the CPU Vcore drops to 1.63 and the temperature goes up to around 43-44C

is this ok?

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: GenTarkin
OK, what I did was run sandra burn in wizard couple times and I monitored the activity in MBM5 every 5 seconds.
at idle according to MBM5 the CPU runs 1.68V at about 38-39C
When the burn in wizard kicks in....the CPU Vcore drops to 1.63 and the temperature goes up to around 43-44C

is this ok?

Looks about right. People have been running at 1.7v for 6-8 months now with no problems, so your chip should run one year, minimum, probably 2+.

 

[GenTarkin]

Man, this is interesting....
Is there anywhere I can read about the voltage sensetivities on these chips?
It is by far more then athlons and their voltage handlings.
I threw 2.0v at my athlon ran it like that for like 6months+ never died.

What makes P4's a lot more sensetive.

again, any cool links bout the P4's specifically and their voltage handling...would be awesome.
THANKS

 

[Ben88]

I think they have a smaller die.

 

[bgeh]

i think that the intel's die is bigger than amd's(not including the IHS)

 

[CrazySaint]

The main reason that P4s are more sensitive is that they are manufactured on a 0.13um process. Most likely, the Athlons you've worked with were manufactured on the 0.18um process. Smaller processes are more susceptible to electromigration (and hence, voltage adjustments).

 

[GenTarkin]

well, that doesnt explain its sensitivity to higher voltage. EXTREEM sensitivity that is.
cause I know I could argue that Nvidias NV25 is 1.5x bigger then both of the cores too. but people pump tons of extra V into those with no prob. lol

 

[rIpTOr]

Actually it is. The new Athlon XP 1700+ T-bred's run at 1.5v default.

 

[CraigRT]

I have almost the exact same setup... 1.8@2.7 on an EPoX 4PEA+ board running PC2700 DDR.
I am not satisfied with the performance... the P4 runs fast, but does not give you a real 2.7GHz feel. and I notice very little speed gain over my XP2000+ system. even in 3d games.

overall not worth the upgrade. I am going to be selling and picking up a 2400+ (to overclock). I'm sure it'll bust this thing up pretty bad...

The system seems to run solid and stable pretty well... but the performance leaves a bit to be desired.... since I believe this is the actual CPU's fault I won't be buying another P4 anytime soon.

 

[Ketchup]

Yield, you have to remember that running a Pentium 4 at 2.7 GHz isn't near as fast as an AMD Athlon/TBred would be at 2.7 GHz. The AMD's are designed to execute more instructions per clock cycle than the P4, while the P4 was designed to scale better than the AMD. They are both fast chips, and the seat-of-the-pants feeling is not going to be enormous.

The biggest thing I like about Intel is overclocking. I had an Athlon XP1800+ and the best I could do was 1.8 GHz (less than 300 MHz overclock) with a Swifty and 5700 RPM Delta. Frankly, I couldn't take the noise. I can get a 500 MHz overclock with my 2.4B and my CPU fan is spinning at a lazy 2700 RPM, and I got a 1500 3DMark improvement to boot.

GenTarkin, I have read a few places that state that Intel says you are fine as long as you stay below 1.75. Above 1.75, electron migration sets in the the chip will eventually fail, or so the theory goes. 1.7 is a good safe setting.

 

[rogue1979]

I was really gonna break down and buy a 1.8a and try it out, even though I am running XP 2200+ now ($62 cpu I might add). But after Yield's observation and the fact that AMD is officially releasing the t-bred "B" core at 1700+ speeds ($52), it just isn't worth it. I long ago did some extensive mods on my case and I have 6 quiet 80mm fans all running a 7-volt mod. My AX7 uses a 40cfm fan turned down to about 35cfm and I modded my Antec 400-watt power supply with two very quiet fans. So noise isn't even an issue, my system runs quieter than my wife's Celeron 1.0a@1400MHz. I admit I still want to try a P4 system, but not until the cpu's drop down to $75 or less which doesn't seem likely.

 

[GenTarkin]

yeah I read about that 1700+ core, and its overclockablity, the version B they are commin out with...
DAMN I guess its back to AMD for me, when those become the mainstream in all the resellers hands.
Thanks for the info guys.

 

[sonoran]

Originally posted by: GenTarkin

again, any cool links bout the P4's specifically and their voltage handling...would be awesome.

Linky: ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/datashts/24988703.pdf

Take a look at the graph on page 22. Looks like what's important is not just the voltage, but voltage * current (aka power). Looking at that graph, and assuming that a P4 could pull up to 70A of current, it's probably not a great idea to run above about 1.625V. Note that the motherboard also plays into how much resistance there is in the circuit, and thus how much current passes through the CPU. Logically, it follows that a poorly designed MB could fry a CPU even at lower voltage (by allowing too much current flow). Do such MB's exist? Who knows? Would be interesting to see if there's any correlation between motherboard and cpu deaths though.

As for why they're more sensitive - any wire heats up when you pump too much juice through it (try breaking the glass of a flashlight bulb, and hooking it up to a 9V battery - see how long it lives). The smaller the features, the more sensitive the circuit. The power requirements are only going to get tighter and tighter as features get smaller - there's no getting around the laws of physics.

* Not speaking for Intel Corp *