I'm sorry your lack of faith has apparently brought you sorrow and given you an angry outlook. We all experience crises of faith but, to me, the benefits have always outweighed the tragedy of doubts in the long run. Take heart, life is not a one way street. You have the choice to be happy or, not.It doesn't matter whether your belief harms anyone or not.
Any belief system will be judged on the benefits or detriment to society over time but, you are right that in the long run, the only judgement that matters is God's
You can't both defend your own belief and attack the SoS or CM claims because they're both based on the same bullshit foundation that personal experience is a valid and rational form of evidence upon which to form a conclusion.
And here I thought that's what science was built on. What's that? it has to be consistent and replicable? You got me, I guess that makes your examples outliers at best and irrelevant at worst.
I don't lack anything. I used to be a pastor before many caring individuals helped me break out of the mind-forged manacle that is religion and spirituality.
You have my sincere regrets for your loss of faith.
Now, you can pretend to know me all you want. You can project whatever kind of flaw you want onto me if it helps you continue to rationalize why I reject your methodology. That doesn't make it true, but you're more than welcome to do it if it helps you sleep at night.
How do we know that this alleged "dimension of God" is any more real than Narnia or Oz or Valhalla or ... ?You choose to inhabit the realm of two dimensional facts while I seek to describe the dimension of God.
Really what is unsuprising is that you appear to lack the references, language, and understanding to "describe the dimension of God."Is it really any surprise you lack the references, language or, understanding to comprehend?
If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars when you leave town. I swear.Take a leap of faith, the rewards are boundless.
How do we know that this alleged "dimension of God" is any more real than Narnia or Oz or Valhalla or ... ?
You will know through God's grace after you take the leap of faith.
Really what is unsuprising is that you appear to lack the references, language, and understanding to "describe the dimension of God."
You are right in that language is a poor method for describing God's love. Alas, it is all we have.
If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars when you leave town. I swear.
To whomever feels this: Making it your job to convert people is another marketing tactic of organized religion. And it makes you so arrogant and offensive. Please STFU b/c nobody wants to hear you.
If you are happy, fine. Live your life, leave the rest of us alone. But if you feel the need to pass laws designed to punish non-adherents or to establish a religious-based government and laws based on the Old Testemont, please f*ck off -- you are an extremist, an American version of Al-Qaeda/Taliban. That's right: no difference between extremist right Christianity and those extremist religious assholes in the Middle East who are punishing and killing people in the name of religion, thinking they are God's proxy. They, and you, are not God's proxy.
I'm sorry your lack of faith has apparently brought you sorrow and given you an angry outlook. We all experience crises of faith but, to me, the benefits have always outweighed the tragedy of doubts in the long run. Take heart, life is not a one way street. You have the choice to be happy or, not.
I do not know Hank but, I can introduce you to many who know God. Why do you fear what may benefit you but, can't hurt you (at least in your current beliefs)?
What does this have to do with being happy or not? I'm happy as fuck, bro.
I can only go by the continually angry tone of your posts. I'm glad you're happy.
"Faith is the surrender of the mind; it's the surrender of the reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other mammals. It's our need to believe, and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and pull all our trust or faith in someone or something that is the sinister thing to me. Of all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated." -Hitchens
You don't seem willing to put your beliefs and thoughts out there as I have done without needing to use Biblical quotes. While you may share the reasoning quoted, it doesn't convey your feelings. I believe faith is what allows us to surpass the limitations of science and logic.
Again, I have not lied about my beliefs or misrepresented them. I have not sought to mislead you or anyone else. Why do my beliefs piss you off and what harm have I done to you or anyone you know? Is it rational to condemn me without cause? You seem to enjoy ranting but, convey little.I am absolutely willing to have my own conclusions challenged. I welcome it.
That's WHY I've asked you for proof. I've come to the conclusion that all religions and all claims of god are horse shit.
You continue to ask for proof you are able to accept knowing, there is none. That speaks of delusion to me.
I've asked you for proof in an effort to upset my own pool of evidence.
You completely and wholeheartedly fail. Repeatedly. On top of that, you willfully boast that you are not a rational person, that you do not value reason or logic or even HONESTY for that matter. This is you: "Weeeee! Lookit meee, everybody! I'm a retard and I'm proud of it! WEEEEEEEE!"
I have been honest in all my statements and beliefs. I have not lashed out at you for your antagonistic behavior.
You are part of the problem.
By the way, I'm always open to my own conclusions being challenged. Whenever you feel like beginning to respect the person who asks you for help, let me know. I'll be waiting for your "evidence" ... but I won't be holding my breath.
If you are asking for help, which is not at all clear, you can't dictate it be on your terms.
Yes, I'm a happpy person. However, it's intentionally intellectually dishonest people like you who piss me off. Not only are you willing to lie to yourself about your own beliefs, but you're willing to attempt to convince others that your bullshit beliefs are legitimate. That's what really pisses me off. Like a snake oil salesman, your forked tongue preys on your fellow weak-minded and vulnerable and impressionable human beings, dragging them down the drain with you.
That's what I object to the most: the spread of the poison that you so willingly embrace.
Again, I have not lied about my beliefs or misrepresented them. I have not sought to mislead you or anyone else. Why do my beliefs piss you off and what harm have I done to you or anyone you know? Is it rational to condemn me without cause? You seem to enjoy ranting but, convey little.
Why should I continue to debate God and my beliefs with you when you appear to only be interested in taking out your frustrations on me?You seemed to have missed the part about where you're not being honest with yourself.
You chastised me for thinking I knew you yet, you claim to know me well enough to say I'm not being honest with myself. This is not logical.
I completely believe that you really do believe what you claim to believe.
I'm glad I was able to convince you of that anyway.
Yes, it's irrational to condemn you without cause. However, I've given you several posts full of cause so I'm not being irrational.
You have presented your case for condemning religion not me or, my stated beliefs. So, your behavior towards me is irrational.
I've conveyed much. You're the one with his head in the sand refusing to acknowledge the significance of my words and others.
Where did I ever claim to know that there's no evidence?
Is it any wonder that Christians have earned a reputation as credulous fools? That is a serious question. I mean, you have to realize that this non-answer is transparently snake oil, right? Please tell me you're not being serious.You will know through God's grace after you take the leap of faith.
Things that do not exist are commonly difficult to describe with language. Conversely, things that do exist are quite easy.You are right in that language is a poor method for describing God's love. Alas, it is all we have.
No, you can introduce me to many that claim to know God. For all we know, God is like nowheremom or Manny Te'o's girlfriend.I do not know Hank but, I can introduce you to many who know God.
If you think I feel fear then you are sorely mistaken, and likely projecting your own insecurities about the idea of letting go of your beliefs. Instead, I disbelieve because my integrity is important to me. I cannot report that I believe something unless I have been legitimately convinced. Belief by fiat is dishonest.Why do you fear what may benefit you but, can't hurt you (at least in your current beliefs)?
I'm quite serious and even managed to convince TC of that. My values are very important to me and it is your choice what to believe. I am simply trying to offer more. Fear of the unknown is inherent in man. You demand answers in a form that is palatable to you. For the umpteenth time, none are available and non will ever be available until the end. Why do my beliefs make you so uncomfortable?Is it any wonder that Christians have earned a reputation as credulous fools? That is a serious question. I mean, you have to realize that this non-answer is transparently snake oil, right? Please tell me you're not being serious.
Things that do not exist are commonly difficult to describe with language. Conversely, things that do exist are quite easy.
Funny, that.
No, you can introduce me to many that claim to know God. For all we know, God is like nowheremom or Manny Te'o's girlfriend.
If you think I feel fear then you are sorely mistaken, and likely projecting your own insecurities about the idea of letting go of your beliefs. Instead, I disbelieve because my integrity is important to me. I cannot report that I believe something unless I have been legitimately convinced. Belief by fiat is dishonest.
Clearly integrity isn't nearly as important to you. Look at all the chances you had to answer my one question to you earlier, and all you could manage was evasion. If that's a taste of the products of a Christian worldview, then thanks, but no.
Why should I continue to debate God and my beliefs with you when you appear to only be interested in taking out your frustrations on me?
I'm quite serious and even managed to convince TC of that. My values are very important to me and it is your choice what to believe. I am simply trying to offer more. Fear of the unknown is inherent in man. You demand answers in a form that is palatable to you. For the umpteenth time, none are available and non will ever be available until the end. Why do my beliefs make you so uncomfortable?
Oh, I dunno, why should you bother defending your faith, testifying to the non believers like Christ commanded you to do? Why should you bother advertising yourself to be an intelligent individual and providing rational arguments as to why you believe in the supernatural?
Yeah, no idea
Things that do not exist are commonly difficult to describe with language. Conversely, things that do exist are quite easy.
Funny, that.
You're certainly no cosmologist.
Do you know another reliable method for producing objective answers to questions about reality?
It doesn't appear to have sprung from anything. Where in our history has the universe ever not existed?
No, they most certainly do not.
What makes you think they came from somewhere? You own inability to rationalize any other possibility?
Who said anything about "looks like," Rob? I can't describe the color of 440Hz plucked on a guitar string, but I can plot it on a graph and detect the frequency when it is present.Describe, with language, what consciousness looks like...not a conscious being, but consciousness itself.
You're just embarrassing yourself.If you can't, I guess it doesn't exist.
Sit back down, Rob. As usual, you are out of your depth.Things we cannot see cannot be described with language, but things we can see, can be described with lauguage.
Who said anything about "looks like," Rob? I can't describe the color of 440Hz plucked on a guitar string, but I can plot it on a graph and detect the frequency when it is present.
You're just embarrassing yourself.
Sit back down, Rob. As usual, you are out of your depth.