Went to Church for the First Time in a Long Time

[OverVolt]

It was a good thread Sho'Nuff

After having grown up Catholic and only getting left with "must have faith" type answers I have no reason to believe in a God other than to look at the whole church as nothing but salesman looking to profit from followers somehow.

But once I die, pretty sure I will know the answer ..will try to update post after my death as soon as possible.

I was raised catholic too. Thats how it dawned on me one day alot of the complaints atheists have are full of shit because I never experienced anything they complain about on the internet vs what I experienced in real life.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Would you ever acknowledge the possibility that perhaps there are some questions science cannot answer?

There are some questions that are objectively meaningless, and it is true that science cannot answer those questions.

Where in my musings did I limit my consideration to the infinitesimally small period of time that is human history?

Everything that has happened in the past, including those things that happened before you and I were born, and even before life appeared on the face of the earth, are all part of our history. I will grant that it is ambiguous however, and apologize for the confusion. You're invited to attempt an answer to the question again following this clarification.

The first law of thermodynamics essentially states that energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. If that law is true, all matter, energy, etc. in the universe had to come from somewhere.

How in the world do you suppose that you can derive "the universe had to come from somewhere" from "energy cannot be created"? You really don't see the plain contradiction there?

Ah. I see we have branched off into the realm of opini . . . . er . . . philosophy. Are you going to start quoting Locke and Socrates now?

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. You assume that the universe must have "come from" somewhere without a shred of evidence or argument.

Are you arguing that the universe came from nothing, because the universe does not exist?

No, I'm saying that it isn't impossible for the universe to have always existed, and we have no reason to believe that it didn't.

Edit - nevermind. I take from your sig that you are a solipsist. If that is true, why does it matter to you that I am not a cosmologist, or that I have any thoughts whatsoever? The only thing real is your mind, right?

It's a philosophy joke, genius.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You, a person who believes that only his mind exists, is having an argument on the internet about the existence of god (of all things). And you are having that argument with someone that your own belief dictates does not exist, but whom your mind believes to exist. Oh the delicious irony.

It amuses me that you took your chance to cast your stones and then pre-preemptively announced your exit before you even got a response.

You must be an attorney. You're all class.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Point is, something doesn't need to meet the standard of descriptive language to exists. Existence of something isn't determined by being able to describe it.

This doesn't contradict or refute anything that I've said, and so it's consequently irrelevant. Guess you just had to speak up lest anyone forget how blundering you are wont to be in threads like these.

You clearly understand that.

But of course.

 

[ralfy]

Church activity is more active in poorer countries. Given, there will likely be the same in more places as global crises persist.

 

[alkemyst]

I studied religion at university as well and with respect to the Abrahamic religions they're all the same. Basically at least.

My gripe in the USA is that the good moral lessons are also taught along side sheer stupidity. Most Americans, according to the polls, don't understand evolution or science for example. They take the bible literally. This is not the case in other Christian/catholic countries so its easier to buy the moral lesson argument for going to church.

That bible in other countries has people killing in it's name.

Most that say they studied religion at university did not.

I studied the old testament, non-secularly. Religion is a very broad paint brush.

It's like saying "I studied history in College".

This is just anti-American talk.

 

[doubledeluxe]

Or maybe it's based on actual polling.

Here's a ton of polls: http://www.gallup.com/poll/1690/religion.aspx

Here's the ones I'm specifically talking about: http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx

You can try to brush that under the rug all you want and call it anti-american but it's who we are.

I wasn't aware we were cock fighting about how much we studied. I have nothing to brag about. I'm not a scholar. I studied world religion for one semester. The religions are so damn similar was my point.

 

[SP33Demon]

Church activity is more active in poorer countries. Given, there will likely be the same in more places as global crises persist.

Church activity is also very active in the U.S., stop using subjective terms like "active".

From wiki: Gallup estimated the once-a-week church attendance of the Americans in 2013 as 39%.[7] This compares to other countries claims such as 15% of French citizens, 10% of UK citizens,[3] and 7.5% of Australian citizens.[4]
Based on 1990-1991 data, it was estimated that the country with the highest rate of church attendance in the world was Nigeria (89%) and with the lowest - the Soviet Union (2%).[8]


So the highest attendance is a poor African country and the lowest is a crumbling and poorer former superpower, with the rich US in between. Based on these facts, your generalizations don't indicate any trend at all. If anything, the only trend we can derive is that the more liberal and socialist a country becomes, the less it attends Church as shown in European countries. If anything, this could affect the US if it becomes more liberal and socialist in the future.

 

[SP33Demon]

That bible in other countries has people killing in it's name.

Like who? The crazy 10 people in a cult somewhere? lol

 

[SP33Demon]

There are some questions that are objectively meaningless, and it is true that science cannot answer those questions.

Just quit while you're ahead. Trying to trivialize major questions that modern physics cannot answer as "meaningless" is the true sign of a troll. Go back under your bridge.

 

[ThinClient]

I have defended my faith. I have testified. My intelligence speaks for itself. I have stated many times that the belief in God requires a leap of faith. I am not perfect, I have no desire or, willingness to be the resident believer you and Cerpin Taxt apparently delight in trying to bait. I believe that speaks volumes about your true character.

Yes, your intelligence speaks for itself; not the way you think it does, however.

You still have yet to provide evidence to support your claim. That's not defending your faith. That's not testifying.

Lots of things require a leap of faith. Believing that Santa Claus delivers gifts to all the children of the world in one night requires a leap of faith. Believing that a magical fairy exchanges teeth left under pillows for money requires a leap of faith. Believing that undead vampires feed on the blood of the living and are real requires a leap of faith.

What separates your make-believe from these other make-believes? What makes your bullshit true while these are false?

That is what we're asking and you're basically sticking your stupid ostrich head in the sand to avoid answering the question.

 

[ThinClient]

Point is, something doesn't need to meet the standard of descriptive language to exists. Existence of something isn't determined by being able to describe it.

You clearly understand that.

con·scious·ness
ˈkän(t)SHəsnəs/
noun
the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.
"she failed to regain consciousness and died two days later"
the awareness or perception of something by a person.
plural noun: consciousnesses
"her acute consciousness of Mike's presence"
the fact of awareness by the mind of itself and the world.
"consciousness emerges from the operations of the brain"



There. I just described consciousness with words.

Where's your evidence that your supernatural deity exists, Retard Rob?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Like who? The crazy 10 people in a cult somewhere? lol

African countries, both christian and muslim quite literally have laws on the books that allow for execution of homosexuals. This is very largely driven by religion.

 

[ThinClient]

African countries, both christian and muslim quite literally have laws on the books that allow for execution of homosexuals. This is very largely driven by religion.

http://www.alternet.org/story/15372...he_anti-gay_bills_sweeping_sub-saharan_africa

http://news.yahoo.com/us-religious-presses-anti-gay-laws-africa-125113762.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/20/1264289/-Uganda-s-American-Religous-Anti-Gay-Lobby

http://hunterofjustice.com/2009/12/uganda-analysis-american-religion-and-the-violence-of-law.html

http://www.twocare.org/the-national-christian-foundation-anti-lgbt-funding-encyclopedia/

 

[SlowSpyder]

Church activity is also very active in the U.S., stop using subjective terms like "active".

From wiki: Gallup estimated the once-a-week church attendance of the Americans in 2013 as 39%.[7] This compares to other countries claims such as 15% of French citizens, 10% of UK citizens,[3] and 7.5% of Australian citizens.[4]
Based on 1990-1991 data, it was estimated that the country with the highest rate of church attendance in the world was Nigeria (89%) and with the lowest - the Soviet Union (2%).[8]


So the highest attendance is a poor African country and the lowest is a crumbling and poorer former superpower, with the rich US in between. Based on these facts, your generalizations don't indicate any trend at all. If anything, the only trend we can derive is that the more liberal and socialist a country becomes, the less it attends Church as shown in European countries. If anything, this could affect the US if it becomes more liberal and socialist in the future.

I bet he is right, in general. You're using old data and also using a lack of church attendance in the Soviet Union as a counterpoint. I bet the people there would have attended church had their oppressive government had a different outlook on religion.

The Soviet Union was the first state to have as an ideological objective the elimination of religion. Toward that end, the Communist regime confiscated church property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in the schools. Actions toward particular religions, however, were determined by State interests, and most organized religions were never outlawed.

Now today, a lot more consider themselves christian.

 

[SlowSpyder]

http://www.alternet.org/story/15372...he_anti-gay_bills_sweeping_sub-saharan_africa

http://news.yahoo.com/us-religious-presses-anti-gay-laws-africa-125113762.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/20/1264289/-Uganda-s-American-Religous-Anti-Gay-Lobby

http://hunterofjustice.com/2009/12/uganda-analysis-american-religion-and-the-violence-of-law.html

http://www.twocare.org/the-national-christian-foundation-anti-lgbt-funding-encyclopedia/

Pretty sick, isn't it? Like I said earlier in this thread, typically my problem isn't with christians, but with christianity itself. The bible really contains a lot of evil in it. They way it warps morals and indoctrinates. But the faithful don't see it like that way because they think those evil passages are god's word and that makes it moral and right.

 

[ThinClient]

Pretty sick, isn't it? Like I said earlier in this thread, typically my problem isn't with christians, but with christianity itself. The bible really contains a lot of evil in it. They way it warps morals and indoctrinates. But the faithful don't see it like that way because they think those evil passages are god's word and that makes it moral and right.

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

-Weinberg

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

[

Just quit while you're ahead. Trying to trivialize major questions that modern physics cannot answer as "meaningless" is the true sign of a troll. Go back under your bridge.

You haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

It amuses me that you took your chance to cast your stones and then pre-preemptively announced your exit before you even got a response.

You must be an attorney. You're all class.

I'm happy to hear that your mind has acknowledged that I am a classy person.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

-Weinberg

You want to kill’: ISIS deserter recounts training, torture and terror

To spread terror among the civilian populations of small villages, Islamic State fighters would conduct public beheadings, he said. Townspeople would crowd into the main square to watch, bringing their children and exhorting the killers more out of fear than solidarity, he said. Islamic State members would fight over who would wield the blade, believing it “brings them closer to god,”

 

[Retro Rob]

Just quit while you're ahead. Trying to trivialize major questions that modern physics cannot answer as "meaningless" is the true sign of a troll. Go back under your bridge.

Well, he's not really "trivializing" them. Materialists hold the view that if something can't be answered using science, then the question is either unanswerable, unimportant, or the thing in question doesn't exist.

This is a god-of-the-gaps fallacy.

Funny how they never seem to recognize that.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I'm happy to hear that your mind has acknowledged that I am a classy person.

You came back into the thread just to say that? Wow. You're pathetic.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Well, he's not really "trivializing" them. Materialists hold the view that if something can't be answered using science, then the question is either unanswerable, unimportant, or the thing in question doesn't exist.

I have never said that and I am not a materialist.

This is a god-of-the-gaps fallacy.

Funny how they never seem to recognize that.

Funny how none of the theists ever seem to know what they're talking about. Doesn't keep them from shooting off at the mouth, though.

 

[Retro Rob]

Funny how none of the theists ever seem to know what they're talking about. Doesn't keep them from shooting off at the mouth, though.

I very much know what I'm talking about. You're filling a gap in scientific knowledge with blind assertions. If there is a gap in the understanding of the world, then that makes that gap "unimportant".

Do what real scientists do...find a better sceince.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I very much know what I'm talking about. You're filling a gap in scientific knowledge with blind assertions.

Which gaps have I "filled" with which "blind assertions," Rob? Put up, or shut up.

If there is a gap in the understanding of the world, then that makes that gap "unimportant".

My mouth is full of your inserted words. You can kindly take them back and shove them right where the sun don't shine.

Do what real scientists do...find a better sceince.

For fuck's sake you're an idiot. You've basically just said "find a squarer circle."

 

[Retro Rob]

Which gaps have I "filled" with which "blind assertions," Rob? Put up, or shut up.

I stand corrected, "objectively meaningless".

Point remains, declaring something "meaningless" becasue contemporary science cannot answer the question is itself unscientific.

For fuck's sake you're an idiot. You've basically just said "find a squarer circle."

No, what I basically said was "find another way to get the answer".

What are you afraid of?