were my workplace privacy rights violated?

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: hans007

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: BoomerD
wonder if the IT guy sent a nice "NO Thank you" to the folks offering the job? OR, plans on trying to get it himself?

I think that what they did sux, and is underhanded, and possibly borders on illegal, (accessing your external e-mail account and forwarding an e-mail in it, BUT, as others have noted, you have no real expectation to privacy when on a company network. THEY own it, and everything on it...NO, that doesn't give them the right to USE information, like PIN#'s, account numbers NOT related to work, etc, but they do have the right to access any information on their network.

I completely agree. The company owns everything in their network. They own any and all recorded data that traverses to and from their network. They are liable for it. And if the OP had used the company email account for correspondence communication, the company has every right to look through the employee's company mailbox and duplicate any e-mails. And if that were the case, then I'd side with the company.

The difference is that I used a company computer to login to a remote computer owned by yahoo. The only thing stored on the company's computer was my internet cookies.

Having what would amount to a stored password on a company computer, does not permit them to access my personal account.

As the example was said before, it they monitored my use of the internet obtained usernames/passwords to non work sites through my using of their computer it does not permit them to use those passwords/logins to access those sites because they would be impersonating me.

the key words are..... I used a company computer to.....

I used a company computer to pay my credit card bill and walked away from my workstation with my account open and the workstation unlocked and therefore it gives them the right to look at all my past statements and payments. Is that right?

Fixed it to make it properly fit the OP context.

 

[JDMnAR1]

No, there was no violation of any workplace privacy rights. You have no reasonable expectation of privacy in anything done on a company-furnished workstation connected to a company-owned and -maintained network. Now, that doesn't make the forwarding of your personal email unethical, but there was no breach of workplace privacy.

 

[vetteguy]

At a place I used to work at, there was a woman who was let go on a Friday morning. After she left the building, they went in to her office and started looking at her computer. She had left it unlocked, and had her Hotmail open. There was a message already on the screen (they did not actually open it, it was open and in plain view) was from a co-worker of hers who said some threatening things about their shared boss (the word 'kill' was used). They printed it out, took it to HR, and the co-worker was terminated the same day. So, not only do you have to be careful about what YOU do on your PC at work, you have to be careful about what others might do with information you send them, even over "private" email services.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Those of you who are crying that it's not right need to realize something - regardless of whether it is right or legal or ethical for the company to log on to your accounts, you are using their computers on their network (not to mention the fact that they're paying you). If you don't want them to access it at all, don't log on using their stuff on their network using their bandwidth... and don't leave your account unsecured so any moron can sit at your computer and forward e-mails (or transfer money between bank accounts). Doesn't make what they did right or ethical. But at some point, you've got to take responsibility for your own actions... which in this case, was leaving your e-mail account unsecure.

Let's say you leave your house unlocked... worse yet, the door open. Someone comes in there and takes your TV. Doesn't make it right that they took it. But if you don't want your stuff taken, keep your darn door locked, and don't give anyone else the key to it. You want people to stay out of your e-mail, don't leave it open.

The OP said the company's policy allowed employees to check their personal emails at work. Oh, and you can bet that if it were another employee that jumped on your "unsecured" workstation, and you caught them, there would be consequences for that employee.

 

[BigDH01]

I believe what the company did was actually fraud. The company might be able to view ingoing and outgoing messages at will, and do so legally. However, when someone in the office got onto his logged account and forwarded an email that would be shown as coming from the employee himself, then the IT officer committed fraud. He used your account to send information without permission.

Company's computer or not, that is fraud. It would be a different situation if he had just printed the email, but certainly wrong to forward.

For example: my company might be able to read the stuff I post here on Anandtech, but would it be right for them to post as me just because I left the window open and logged in? Just because I accidently left the window open does not give the company the right to commit fraud.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: vetteguy
At a place I used to work at, there was a woman who was let go on a Friday morning. After she left the building, they went in to her office and started looking at her computer. She had left it unlocked, and had her Hotmail open. There was a message already on the screen (they did not actually open it, it was open and in plain view) was from a co-worker of hers who said some threatening things about their shared boss (the word 'kill' was used). They printed it out, took it to HR, and the co-worker was terminated the same day. So, not only do you have to be careful about what YOU do on your PC at work, you have to be careful about what others might do with information you send them, even over "private" email services.

Not saying that I disagree with you. Just highlighting the difference between that case and the OP's.

 

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Leaving his email account open on the company's computer, implies rights, on their part. Some of you just don't get this. It's an ethics issue, not a legal one. If this battle were fought in court, the plaintiff, (assuming the OP brought suit), would handily lose.

Implied rights? If I forgot my cell phone at work does that imply rights for the company to use it since the phone is on company premises?

Be real! If you pay for it, it's yours and they have no right to it. If they pay for it then yes, they can use it as they see fit.
Ethically right or wrong is irrelevant because, as many have already pointed out, from a legal standpoint the company has the right to monitor everything that goes on their networks and computers. He left it open and unprotected...his mistake. At the very least, frickin' common sense should have told the OP not to leave "incriminating evidence" accessible to said company.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: ITJunkie

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Leaving his email account open on the company's computer, implies rights, on their part. Some of you just don't get this. It's an ethics issue, not a legal one. If this battle were fought in court, the plaintiff, (assuming the OP brought suit), would handily lose.

Implied rights? If I forgot my cell phone at work does that imply rights for the company to use it since the phone is on company premises?

Be real! If you pay for it, it's yours and they have no right to it. If they pay for it then yes, they can use it as they see fit.
Ethically right or wrong is irrelevant because, as many have already pointed out, from a legal standpoint the company has the right to monitor everything that goes on their networks and computers. He left it open and unprotected...his mistake. At the very least, frickin' common sense should have told the OP not to leave "incriminating evidence" accessible to said company.

The company owns the right to property (building/desk/etc.) as much as they own the rights to the computer equipment. The personal e-mail belongs to the user as does the cell phone. Its a completely legitimate comparison.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: spidey07
their computer, they can do anything they want with it.

If you think hard about that statement, you'll realize how stupid it was.

 

[chrisms]

Originally posted by: her209
I used a company computer to pay my credit card bill and therefore it gives them the right to look at all my past statements and payments. Is that right?

You shouldn't be logging into your personal financial accounts on company workstations. The ethical issue that comes up is a result of your misuse of company equipment.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: her209
I used a company computer to pay my credit card bill and therefore it gives them the right to look at all my past statements and payments. Is that right?

You shouldn't be logging into your personal financial accounts on company workstations. The ethical issue that comes up is a result of your misuse of company equipment.

The company said it was okay.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Those of you who are crying that it's not right need to realize something - regardless of whether it is right or legal or ethical for the company to log on to your accounts, you are using their computers on their network (not to mention the fact that they're paying you). If you don't want them to access it at all, don't log on using their stuff on their network using their bandwidth... and don't leave your account unsecured so any moron can sit at your computer and forward e-mails (or transfer money between bank accounts). Doesn't make what they did right or ethical. But at some point, you've got to take responsibility for your own actions... which in this case, was leaving your e-mail account unsecure.

Let's say you leave your house unlocked... worse yet, the door open. Someone comes in there and takes your TV. Doesn't make it right that they took it. But if you don't want your stuff taken, keep your darn door locked, and don't give anyone else the key to it. You want people to stay out of your e-mail, don't leave it open.

The person who took the tv still goes to jail, right? I don't see anyone arguing that leaving his computer in that state was smart. People keep saying and quoting how stupid it was as if there's some argument. The only argument is that what the company did was still wrong regardless.

 

[TreyRandom]

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Those of you who are crying that it's not right need to realize something - regardless of whether it is right or legal or ethical for the company to log on to your accounts, you are using their computers on their network (not to mention the fact that they're paying you). If you don't want them to access it at all, don't log on using their stuff on their network using their bandwidth... and don't leave your account unsecured so any moron can sit at your computer and forward e-mails (or transfer money between bank accounts). Doesn't make what they did right or ethical. But at some point, you've got to take responsibility for your own actions... which in this case, was leaving your e-mail account unsecure.

Let's say you leave your house unlocked... worse yet, the door open. Someone comes in there and takes your TV. Doesn't make it right that they took it. But if you don't want your stuff taken, keep your darn door locked, and don't give anyone else the key to it. You want people to stay out of your e-mail, don't leave it open.

The person who took the tv still goes to jail, right? I don't see anyone arguing that leaving his computer in that state was smart. People keep saying and quoting how stupid it was as if there's some argument. The only argument is that what the company did was still wrong regardless.

The only defense that can be given for their actions is that it's:
- their computer
- their bandwidth
- their office
- their real estate property

In any case, I don't believe what they did was illegal. It might suck that they did it, but it's not illegal.

 

[TreyRandom]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Those of you who are crying that it's not right need to realize something - regardless of whether it is right or legal or ethical for the company to log on to your accounts, you are using their computers on their network (not to mention the fact that they're paying you). If you don't want them to access it at all, don't log on using their stuff on their network using their bandwidth... and don't leave your account unsecured so any moron can sit at your computer and forward e-mails (or transfer money between bank accounts). Doesn't make what they did right or ethical. But at some point, you've got to take responsibility for your own actions... which in this case, was leaving your e-mail account unsecure.

Let's say you leave your house unlocked... worse yet, the door open. Someone comes in there and takes your TV. Doesn't make it right that they took it. But if you don't want your stuff taken, keep your darn door locked, and don't give anyone else the key to it. You want people to stay out of your e-mail, don't leave it open.

The OP said the company's policy allowed employees to check their personal emails at work. Oh, and you can bet that if it were another employee that jumped on your "unsecured" workstation, and you caught them, there would be consequences for that employee.

Doesn't matter if they allowed him to check e-mails or not... everyplace I've worked has had an acceptable use policy that states that there is no expectation of privacy on company-owned computers, even if they allow Web browsing and checking e-mail.

The difference between "another employee" getting on his computer and an authorized representative of the company is that the company representative (IT staff, whomever) is allowed to do whatever the company chooses with the company's property. Yes, it's his e-mail, but it's displayed, unprotected, on the company's computer, in the company's office, on the company's property, during company hours.

Again, I'm not saying it's ethically right, but I don't believe it is illegal. But hey, if the OP feels that strongly about it, then the OP can sue. I'd be interested to hear about what happens.

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Those of you who are crying that it's not right need to realize something - regardless of whether it is right or legal or ethical for the company to log on to your accounts, you are using their computers on their network (not to mention the fact that they're paying you). If you don't want them to access it at all, don't log on using their stuff on their network using their bandwidth... and don't leave your account unsecured so any moron can sit at your computer and forward e-mails (or transfer money between bank accounts). Doesn't make what they did right or ethical. But at some point, you've got to take responsibility for your own actions... which in this case, was leaving your e-mail account unsecure.

Let's say you leave your house unlocked... worse yet, the door open. Someone comes in there and takes your TV. Doesn't make it right that they took it. But if you don't want your stuff taken, keep your darn door locked, and don't give anyone else the key to it. You want people to stay out of your e-mail, don't leave it open.

The OP said the company's policy allowed employees to check their personal emails at work. Oh, and you can bet that if it were another employee that jumped on your "unsecured" workstation, and you caught them, there would be consequences for that employee.

Doesn't matter if they allowed him to check e-mails or not... everyplace I've worked has had an acceptable use policy that states that there is no expectation of privacy on company-owned computers, even if they allow Web browsing and checking e-mail.

The difference between "another employee" getting on his computer and an authorized representative of the company is that the company representative (IT staff, whomever) is allowed to do whatever the company chooses with the company's property. Yes, it's his e-mail, but it's displayed, unprotected, on the company's computer, in the company's office, on the company's property, during company hours.

Again, I'm not saying it's ethically right, but I don't believe it is illegal. But hey, if the OP feels that strongly about it, then the OP can sue. I'd be interested to hear about what happens.

They can look at it but I still believe that as soon as a company representative hit the "forward" button that a crime was committed. If the IT guy just printed the screen, that's one thing, but forwarding the email is, in effect, impersonating the original poster. That is wrong.

 

[TreyRandom]

Originally posted by: BigDH01
They can look at it but I still believe that as soon as a company representative hit the "forward" button that a crime was committed. If the IT guy just printed the screen, that's one thing, but forwarding the email is, in effect, impersonating the original poster. That is wrong.

Not sure there's a law against using someone else's e-mail, but I see where you're coming from. Obviously, that could have been avoided if he had closed his browser, but I realize that's not your point.

 

[Thorny]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: hans007
The difference is that I used a company computer to login to a remote computer owned by yahoo. The only thing stored on the company's computer was my internet cookies.

Having what would amount to a stored password on a company computer, does not permit them to access my personal account.

As the example was said before, it they monitored my use of the internet obtained usernames/passwords to non work sites through my using of their computer it does not permit them to use those passwords/logins to access those sites because they would be impersonating me.

I'm confused here....what part of "they own the infromation" don't you undestand? You have no privacy whatsoever, nor are you entitled to it.

The information in question didn't traverse his employers network. He didn't have the email open on his screen, just the main email page. What your saying is that just because you bring your wallet to work, your employer has the right to search it.

If the op would have read that email at work it would've been fair game, but since he didn't say he did, we don't know that they would have had access to it. From what the OP has said, the company would NOT have had access to that email had they not searched his private email, using HIS access information. Just because they know his password does NOT give them the right to search his account.

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom

Originally posted by: BigDH01
They can look at it but I still believe that as soon as a company representative hit the "forward" button that a crime was committed. If the IT guy just printed the screen, that's one thing, but forwarding the email is, in effect, impersonating the original poster. That is wrong.

Not sure there's a law against using someone else's e-mail, but I see where you're coming from. Obviously, that could have been avoided if he had closed his browser, but I realize that's not your point.

I'm not sure it technically constitute fraud as the intent was not to damage the OP or for to gain something for the company. However, when the IT guy sent the message, the OP's email service accepted and forwarded the message under the understanding that the OP created the email and had the intent to distribute when, in fact, it was sent by the company and not the OP. The company "impersonated" the OP. I would imagine this falls under forgery laws.

For example, if I use a password to sign into my bank account at work and this password is caught by the network admin and logged, the admin can KNOW the password but he cannot USE the password to sign into my bank account. The OP's company can know what is on the machine but cannot use that knowledge to deceive the poster or his email service.

 

[TreyRandom]

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: hans007
The difference is that I used a company computer to login to a remote computer owned by yahoo. The only thing stored on the company's computer was my internet cookies.

Having what would amount to a stored password on a company computer, does not permit them to access my personal account.

As the example was said before, it they monitored my use of the internet obtained usernames/passwords to non work sites through my using of their computer it does not permit them to use those passwords/logins to access those sites because they would be impersonating me.

I'm confused here....what part of "they own the infromation" don't you undestand? You have no privacy whatsoever, nor are you entitled to it.

The information in question didn't traverse his employers network. He didn't have the email open on his screen, just the main email page. What your saying is that just because you bring your wallet to work, your employer has the right to search it.

If the op would have read that email at work it would've been fair game, but since he didn't say he did, we don't know that they would have had access to it. From what the OP has said, the company would NOT have had access to that email had they not searched his private email, using HIS access information. Just because they know his password does NOT give them the right to search his account.

If he was on a computer at the company, I can assure you that packets to and from Yahoo's e-mail server traversed his employer's network.

Eh, I'm not here to play e-lawyer with you. I'm simply saying that he was on his company's computer with his personal e-mail open. Dumb move, which everyone agrees with.

 

[TreyRandom]

I did find this, from here:

The privacy of any particular e-mail message is contingent on federal statutes, including the 1996 Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA) and the Stored Wire and Electronic Communications and Transactional Records Access Act (also 1996), and constitutional protection against search and seizure. Essentially, ECPA "prohibits intentional interception and use of oral, wire, and electronic communications," and the Stored Wire and Electronic Communications and Transactional Records Access Act "makes it a crime to unlawfully access stored communications" (Sultanik 26). But state privacy laws and college or university policies governing e-mail and Internet usage by students and employees may be the determining factors on most campuses. As Peterson and Hodges explain, "the basic issue that defines the level of privacy to afford citizens is whether or not there is a 'reasonable expectation of privacy'"

I guess a lot depends on whether the OP was told that he could be monitored. Most workplaces don't provide a "reasonable expectation of privacy."

As far as forgery is concerned, I guess it depends on what the definition of forgery is in the OP's state.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: hans007
The difference is that I used a company computer to login to a remote computer owned by yahoo. The only thing stored on the company's computer was my internet cookies.

Having what would amount to a stored password on a company computer, does not permit them to access my personal account.

As the example was said before, it they monitored my use of the internet obtained usernames/passwords to non work sites through my using of their computer it does not permit them to use those passwords/logins to access those sites because they would be impersonating me.

I'm confused here....what part of "they own the infromation" don't you undestand? You have no privacy whatsoever, nor are you entitled to it.

The information in question didn't traverse his employers network. He didn't have the email open on his screen, just the main email page. What your saying is that just because you bring your wallet to work, your employer has the right to search it.

If the op would have read that email at work it would've been fair game, but since he didn't say he did, we don't know that they would have had access to it. From what the OP has said, the company would NOT have had access to that email had they not searched his private email, using HIS access information. Just because they know his password does NOT give them the right to search his account.

Exactly. If they had used a packet sniffer, that would be a different story. If he had stored the offer letter in a file on his computer and they got it that way, that would be a different story. But they accessed his non-work e-mail account. It doesn't matter how easy he made it for them - whether he had the password on a Post-it note or he left the browser window open, that's wrong. I'm sure spidey07 would agree that if the OP's company had an open wireless network, that would not permit anyone who wants to access their network. That would be illegal. They own the network, and they own the computer. The fact that the OP logged into a website off their network does not permit them to do whatever they want with his account on that site.

 

[Thorny]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: hans007
The difference is that I used a company computer to login to a remote computer owned by yahoo. The only thing stored on the company's computer was my internet cookies.

Having what would amount to a stored password on a company computer, does not permit them to access my personal account.

As the example was said before, it they monitored my use of the internet obtained usernames/passwords to non work sites through my using of their computer it does not permit them to use those passwords/logins to access those sites because they would be impersonating me.

I'm confused here....what part of "they own the infromation" don't you undestand? You have no privacy whatsoever, nor are you entitled to it.

The information in question didn't traverse his employers network. He didn't have the email open on his screen, just the main email page. What your saying is that just because you bring your wallet to work, your employer has the right to search it.

If the op would have read that email at work it would've been fair game, but since he didn't say he did, we don't know that they would have had access to it. From what the OP has said, the company would NOT have had access to that email had they not searched his private email, using HIS access information. Just because they know his password does NOT give them the right to search his account.

If he was on a computer at the company, I can assure you that packets to and from Yahoo's e-mail server traversed his employer's network.

Eh, I'm not here to play e-lawyer with you. I'm simply saying that he was on his company's computer with his personal e-mail open. Dumb move, which everyone agrees with.

Except that he never says he actually opened that email at work, so it had NOT in fact traversed the company's network, not until thier own employee opened it that is. So are saying that if an employee leaves her purse on her desk while she goes to the can, her employer can legally go through her purse?

Just because the OP makes a dumb move does not mean he gives up his reasonable expectation of privacy, which employers have to abide by. While I prolly wouldn't try to pursue justice in this case, I might set the building on fire when I left :evil:

/jk

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom

If he was on a computer at the company, I can assure you that packets to and from Yahoo's e-mail server traversed his employer's network.

Eh, I'm not here to play e-lawyer with you. I'm simply saying that he was on his company's computer with his personal e-mail open. Dumb move, which everyone agrees with.

Sure the packets went over the network, but they didn't use a packet sniffer to get the offer letter. They accessed his Yahoo account without his consent.

His username and password to his Yahoo account also went over their network, but that doesn't give them the right to use them to log in to his yahoo account.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom
If he was on a computer at the company, I can assure you that packets to and from Yahoo's e-mail server traversed his employer's network.

Eh, I'm not here to play e-lawyer with you. I'm simply saying that he was on his company's computer with his personal e-mail open. Dumb move, which everyone agrees with.

Again, simply being logged into a personal account on a work computer does not entitle the company access to any e-mails in that personal account.

 

[marincounty]

It's unfortunate that we live in America, land of the free, and you have no rights at work.
You may undergo drug testing, backround checks, your telephone and computer all belong to the company and can be searched or monitored at any time. You can be fired for any or no reason at any time, and you have no recourse under the law.
But hey, that's what you get when corporations own the government.
I think the OP should contact an attorney to see if there is any action possible against this company. What they did is wrong and probably illegal, though I'm not a lawyer. Since you are leaving anyway, I would create a huge sh**storm for them as I walk out.