Westworld Discussion Thread

[A Casual Fitz]

But yeah, the reveal was pretty cool.

Spoiler

why did Ford bother showing Bernard the secret cottage? It seemed sort of redundant. I get why it was done to advance the story so I guess we can let that slide.

Spoiler

He wanted Bernard to lure her down there so he could dispose of her discreetly. That host that was shown being built is a Theresa clone, no doubt. He is in control.

 

[Udgnim]

But yeah, the reveal was pretty cool. That was a popular topic of speculation. The question I have there though is

Spoiler

why did Ford bother showing Bernard the secret cottage? It seemed sort of redundant. I get why it was done to advance the story so I guess we can let that slide.

Spoiler

I don't think Ford purposely showed Bernard the secret cottage. That was the result of Bernard's interactions with Elsie.

Pretty sure Bernard has also been down in the basement before finding the "secret cottage."

http://imgur.com/a/nTfG3

Spoiler

[/quote][/quote]

 

[Kazukian]

The Board's "real interest" in Westworld's tech has been referenced several times, is it to upload human consciousness into host bodies?

 

[PottedMeat]

What door?

nice. weve got that full hannibal lecter look walking around the glass and concrete walled room. hes given that vibe before several times but nothing that creepy.

 

[Miles Vappa]

My question about episode 7:

Spoiler

Was bernard a host built from the ground up with false memories of a previous life (his dying kid and wife and such)? Or was bernard a real person who for whatever reason was killed and had a host clone copy made of him?(could have been tricked by ford in a situation similar to the women, stumbling onto a place he shouldnt have)

If he is a host clone of a real bernard, it adds more questions, like: was his conciousness actually transferred or is it simply a similar shell around whatever is the normal code for a host?

 

[Aikouka]

The only thing that bugged me about this episode was the direction. There were so many awkward close-ups on people that didn't really seem to serve a purpose, and it kept pulling me out and making me wonder, "What are they doing!?"

Although, I guess one interesting thing of note is that if you read into the dialog, Ford never denied that he killed Arnold. He simply stated that Bernard wasn't around at that point.

 

[Charmonium]

Spoiler

I don't think Ford purposely showed Bernard the secret cottage. That was the result of Bernard's interactions with Elsie.

Pretty sure Bernard has also been down in the basement before finding the "secret cottage."

http://imgur.com/a/nTfG3

Oh, that's interesting.

My question about episode 7:

Spoiler

Was bernard a host built from the ground up with false memories of a previous life (his dying kid and wife and such)? Or was bernard a real person who for whatever reason was killed and had a host clone copy made of him?(could have been tricked by ford in a situation similar to the women, stumbling onto a place he shouldnt have)

If he is a host clone of a real bernard, it adds more questions, like: was his conciousness actually transferred or is it simply a similar shell around whatever is the normal code for a host?

Spoiler

We're heavy into 'ghost-in-the-shell territory here. It's a great take on that concept. What if you had a malicious agent doing the consciousness transfer? Although Ford doesn't seem to be completely malicious. He seems to want his "creations" to be happy.

 

[Kazukian]

My question about episode 7:

Spoiler

Was bernard a host built from the ground up with false memories of a previous life (his dying kid and wife and such)? Or was bernard a real person who for whatever reason was killed and had a host clone copy made of him?(could have been tricked by ford in a situation similar to the women, stumbling onto a place he shouldnt have)

If he is a host clone of a real bernard, it adds more questions, like: was his conciousness actually transferred or is it simply a similar shell around whatever is the normal code for a host?

Ford said Bernard was made after Arnold's death.

 

[MaxDepth]

Spoiler

So is William the Man in Black? Is William's timeline before the present time line?

Because the WestWorld main story line always repeats itself, we the viewer are not sure what is the real date and time. Remember as William walks first into town, the call to arms side-story is not going into the hills to look for the bandit but to join the military service. (I think that's correct, I have to rewatch to confirm.)

 

[A Casual Fitz]

Spoiler

So is William the Man in Black? Is William's timeline before the present time line?

Because the WestWorld main story line always repeats itself, we the viewer are not sure what is the real date and time. Remember as William walks first into town, the call to arms side-story is not going into the hills to look for the bandit but to join the military service. (I think that's correct, I have to rewatch to confirm.)

That and the other hints given. The different logos are the most blatant evidence that they're showing different time periods.

 

[Skel]

Spoiler

I don't think Ford purposely showed Bernard the secret cottage. That was the result of Bernard's interactions with Elsie.

Pretty sure Bernard has also been down in the basement before finding the "secret cottage."

http://imgur.com/a/nTfG3

Spoiler

Spoiler

[/quote]

[/QUOTE]

I don't think that's the same place. He said there were a bunch of those maintenance 'basements' scattered around the park that Ford and Arnold would use.

 

[smackababy]

Spoiler

He wanted Bernard to lure her down there so he could dispose of her discreetly. That host that was shown being built is a Theresa clone, no doubt. He is in control.

Spoiler

I wouldn't say that. There is a very good chance he gave Bernard a much more conscious AI than the hosts in the park. He clearly can hurt people and think mostly for himself. Perhaps, his ignorance in not knowing he was a host simply had him curiously looking for a problem.

I also wager the man that has been killed over and over his Arnold, who uploaded his conscious into a host body. But know knows.

 

[Skel]

Spoiler

I wouldn't say that. There is a very good chance he gave Bernard a much more conscious AI than the hosts in the park. He clearly can hurt people and think mostly for himself. Perhaps, his ignorance in not knowing he was a host simply had him curiously looking for a problem.

I also wager the man that has been killed over and over his Arnold, who uploaded his conscious into a host body. But know knows.

What's the timeframe for dropping spoilers for the last episode?

Spoiler

I don't think Bernard has much more conscious than the rest. He was able to kill because Ford wanted it. Remember Ford is a god to the machines (due to code) so he can overwrite the rules whenever it suites his fancy.

One question that came up last night. Is it possible that Logan and William are machines? I find myself wondering if that story line (being the past one, most agree is the case) is the attempt to bring down the park by Arnold that the future storylines talked about. If it's not the case, then that would mean Dolores has had three shots at getting to the center of the maze.. the first being where she was there when Arnold died, the second being this William storyline, and now the one where she's on her own due to Bernard pushing her. There's a good chance I'm forgetting something as it's early and my brain isn't working at full steam due to a illness.

 

[A Casual Fitz]

Eh, once the episode airs spoilers should be fine. I highly doubt William is a host. They showed him as a guest of the park, emphasized that he couldn't be hurt by the bullets, etc...

 

[4K_shmoorK]

I haven't looked into fan theories or anything but its pretty much accepted at this point that Arnold is still very much alive and is either trapped, or most likely, hidden himself in Westworld right? Otherwise, Ford would have really no motive to be making these servant-esque undocumented hosts. No doubt, he's been doing it for years but perhaps now he is finally to a point where he believes he can find/locate/best Arnold by setting hosts 'free' in the park? Doesn't seem like board has any power over the situation, case in point Arnold smash, so there must be something driving him since his comments sort of confirm this isn't all for legacy's sake.

Or maybe his plan is to place his hosts in other real world position of power, maybe to extend his god complex even further? Who's to say he doesn't have more hosts working for Westworld? This episode opened the show up a lot for me, very excited to see where it goes.

Side note: Can't wait for The Leftovers Season 3. Love these slow burn, culmination type shows. Wish they would announce a Knick Season 3 but it doesn't sound like the show had enough popularity to keep going.

 

[Kazukian]

I haven't looked into fan theories or anything but its pretty much accepted at this point that Arnold is still very much alive and is either trapped, or most likely, hidden himself in Westworld right? Otherwise, Ford would have really no motive to be making these servant-esque undocumented hosts. No doubt, he's been doing it for years but perhaps now he is finally to a point where he believes he can find/locate/best Arnold by setting hosts 'free' in the park? Doesn't seem like board has any power over the situation, case in point Arnold smash, so there must be something driving him since his comments sort of confirm this isn't all for legacy's sake.

Or maybe his plan is to place his hosts in other real world position of power, maybe to extend his god complex even further? Who's to say he doesn't have more hosts working for Westworld? This episode opened the show up a lot for me, very excited to see where it goes.

Side note: Can't wait for The Leftovers Season 3. Love these slow burn, culmination type shows. Wish they would announce a Knick Season 3 but it doesn't sound like the show had enough popularity to keep going.

I'm thinking soldier AI's?

 

[A Casual Fitz]

I'm really warming up to the idea that Bernard is a host version of Arnold. Someone on reddit pointed out that the basement from the most recent episode is identical to the one shown when "Bernard" was having his conversations with Delores. The theory is that it's actually Arnold talking to her 30+ years ago and we've been seeing scenes of both real Arnold and Bernarnold made to look like one character.

https://imgur.com/a/nTfG3#se1UGFL

 

[Skel]

I'm really warming up to the idea that Bernard is a host version of Arnold. Someone on reddit pointed out that the basement from the most recent episode is identical to the one shown when "Bernard" was having his conversations with Delores. The theory is that it's actually Arnold talking to her 30+ years ago and we've been seeing scenes of both real Arnold and Bernarnold made to look like one character.

https://imgur.com/a/nTfG3#se1UGFL

Weren't there other people working with Ford and Arnold when they were first getting it going? While it's possible, I can't help but think if Ford had a replica of Arnold, let alone one in the job Bernard had, that people wouldn't know.

 

[Miles Vappa]

I'm really warming up to the idea that Bernard is a host version of Arnold. Someone on reddit pointed out that the basement from the most recent episode is identical to the one shown when "Bernard" was having his conversations with Delores. The theory is that it's actually Arnold talking to her 30+ years ago and we've been seeing scenes of both real Arnold and Bernarnold made to look like one character.

https://imgur.com/a/nTfG3#se1UGFL

While I do believe the multiple timeline theory works in a very basic sense (like what is mentioned above could have been the (real/not real) Bernard from some earlier point, I think the multiple timeline theory that's being mentioned all over reddit and youtube (where what we are seeing in westworld could be jumping from 30+ years back and forth, and two different characters may actually be the same person, just 30 years apart in age) is not accurate.

Spoiler

Not that it couldn't be the case, but if it was, I think the writers have already taken way too many liberties for it to be believable, due to a few facts mentioned:

We see the people who work on the overall map/command room center are the same age in relation to scenes they respond to that are 30 years apart.

The main tech guy Stubb(the one who has the gun and shoots the brothel girl host in the last episode) authorizes a technician to allow the MIB to blow up the lock in the jail, and then in an later episode tries to recall Delores from Pariah (because she is detected out of her zone), and then Williams intervenes. And the simplest reason that William and the MIB aren't the same is because William has a mole on his face and the MIB doesn't. Unless Williams gets facial reconstruction surgery.

Of course, this can all be explained if they are all hosts, which is perhaps where the show is leading us to (or at least hosts in the "modern" era), which I think is the only logical explanation without the writing having way too many plot holes, or cheap misdirection.

BTW, I keep typing hosts as synths, and then have to correct myself.

 

[MaxDepth]

So what do we know...

• Are there really several different timelines? It is possible because the stories keep repeating themselves, so one day looks like any other because you are experiencing a self-perpetuating anachronism.
• Old Pete. When they run diagnostics on him, we learn he was the leader of cannibals out in the wilder parts of the park as his first(?) scripted role. Does that role coincide with Wyatt?
• Ford [is that a little too on the nose as the inventor of the hosts, just as Henry Ford created the automobile?] treats his hosts like they are, automatons. And tells others not to get involved with them (as in do not proscribe human feelings)

Spoiler

• We hear from Bernard why the hosts talk to each other even when not around guests, they "error correct." We know Dolores (and Pete) were some of the original models just improved superficially. So does Ford keep some of these originals around because Arnold programmed them? Does he allow Bernard to have sessions with Dolores to suss out Arnold's deep programs that may be buried in Dolores?
• Ford says he's seen many Heads of Quality when he chats with Theresa and they've all tried to work things out with him, except her. And when he tells her that he is communication with the Board, that tells me her position is just there to lead a group and not really participate in any significant position. Side note: he destroys that little restaurant (it is alluded to by the giant rock crusher coming towards it) to show that he is not sentimental about the past (even though he has a mini me). Does that mean he's always pushing the limitations of the hosts and the grounds, but to what ends?
• I don't think Theresa is coming back. He doesn't need to replace her because I think the Board is well aware of her impending doom. The only reason to bring her back is to create another host to manage the park, like Bernard.
• Is the maze for hosts only? I thought the conversation between Ford and MiB seemed to be Ford trying to dissuade MiB from continuing. Not protesting too much tat would cause MiB to be suspicious but more like non-committal about there being one. Like, oh go on; not much there anyway....

 

[Kazukian]

So what do we know...

• Are there really several different timelines? It is possible because the stories keep repeating themselves, so one day looks like any other because you are experiencing a self-perpetuating anachronism.
• Old Pete. When they run diagnostics on him, we learn he was the leader of cannibals out in the wilder parts of the park as his first(?) scripted role. Does that role coincide with Wyatt?
• Ford [is that a little too on the nose as the inventor of the hosts, just as Henry Ford created the automobile?] treats his hosts like they are, automatons. And tells others not to get involved with them (as in do not proscribe human feelings)

Spoiler

• We hear from Bernard why the hosts talk to each other even when not around guests, they "error correct." We know Dolores (and Pete) were some of the original models just improved superficially. So does Ford keep some of these originals around because Arnold programmed them? Does he allow Bernard to have sessions with Dolores to suss out Arnold's deep programs that may be buried in Dolores?
• Ford says he's seen many Heads of Quality when he chats with Theresa and they've all tried to work things out with him, except her. And when he tells her that he is communication with the Board, that tells me her position is just there to lead a group and not really participate in any significant position. Side note: he destroys that little restaurant (it is alluded to by the giant rock crusher coming towards it) to show that he is not sentimental about the past (even though he has a mini me). Does that mean he's always pushing the limitations of the hosts and the grounds, but to what ends?
• I don't think Theresa is coming back. He doesn't need to replace her because I think the Board is well aware of her impending doom. The only reason to bring her back is to create another host to manage the park, like Bernard.
• Is the maze for hosts only? I thought the conversation between Ford and MiB seemed to be Ford trying to dissuade MiB from continuing. Not protesting too much tat would cause MiB to be suspicious but more like non-committal about there being one. Like, oh go on; not much there anyway....

Spoiler

. I think Ford has to replace Theresa, as murder is still probably illegal.

 

[A Casual Fitz]

I wonder if they'll ever give us a real hint at what year(s) this is taking place in. Maybe reference 9/11 being 100 years ago or something.

 

[A Casual Fitz]

Spoiler

William totally put that guy out of his misery so they wouldn't have to drag his wounded ass around. He's starting to think of them more like robots and not humans.

Wow. The Asian morgue guy is a fucking idiot.

Also, F UCK what a cliffhanger!! What is happening to Dolores? Which time is which?

 

[A Casual Fitz]

Stolen from Reddit: The best Easter Egg of them all would be if William really is the Man in Black and since he's been riding around with Teddy, it could be called, "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure."

https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/5dzxdc/if_mib_williamsuper_easter_egg_if_reveal_is_true/

 

[smackababy]

William can't be the MIB. As stated before, the head of security interacted with both timelines. Unless he is a host, he would have aged somehow. We know some of the staff are hosts (besides the obvious). When William came, he was interacting with a girl who implied she was a host.

Spoiler

If the security guy is a host, the fact he knew about Bernard's trysts won't be a problem. But, why set up drama unless it's to throw us off?