We've Become a Nation of Takers, Not Makers

[werepossum]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704050204576219073867182108.html

Damned good read. More Americans now work for government than work in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities combined.

If you want to understand better why so many states—from New York to Wisconsin to California—are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, consider this depressing statistic: Today in America there are nearly twice as many people working for the government (22.5 million) than in all of manufacturing (11.5 million). This is an almost exact reversal of the situation in 1960, when there were 15 million workers in manufacturing and 8.7 million collecting a paycheck from the government.

It gets worse. More Americans work for the government than work in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities combined. We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers. Nearly half of the $2.2 trillion cost of state and local governments is the $1 trillion-a-year tab for pay and benefits of state and local employees. Is it any wonder that so many states and cities cannot pay their bills?

If you cannot see the problems inherent in this situation, then congratulations, your lobotomy was a smashing success! Cue squeals about the sensationalist right wing corporate media conspiracy and complaints about the evil rich . . .

 

[Infohawk]

It isn't a partisan issue, but Republicans did certainly sell out the American manufacturing base by opening free trade with heinous governments like China. Of course Democrats were no better. It's just like with illegal immigration, neither party really wants to do anything about it.

 

[ShawnD1]

American opinion of how an economy works must change. A while ago we had a thread about USA selling oil and minerals to China. OUTRAGE. People on this forum were upset that products were being sold for profit.

Do people not understand where money comes from? You sell things, people give you money in return. It's really not a hard concept.

 

[Throckmorton]

I thought we didn't want those hard manufacturing and farming and logging jobs. Those jobs are for Mexicans.

This argument makes no sense. Our corporate overlords outsourced all our jobs, or in the case of farming and other resource extraction just mechanized them or gave them to illegal immigrants. And now more of us work in crappy service sector jobs. So the author at the WSJ is comparing the jobs that Wall Street itself told us we didn't want and took away from us, but not including the service jobs, and saying that government is too big... WTF?

This is how they think. Wall Street is basically grabbing our hand, using it to punch us in the face, and saying "Why are you punching yourself?"

Now how about comparing the number of union jobs to 1960... Interesting how I don't see the WSJ complaining that there are too few union jobs compared to government jobs.

 

[spidey07]

Lol! Why this is bad went right over the leftists heads. Lobotomy successful.

 

[Throckmorton]

Study after study has shown that states and cities could shave 20% to 40% off the cost of many services—fire fighting, public transportation, garbage collection, administrative functions, even prison operations—through competitive contracting to private providers.

LOL, seriously? Right, because a garbageman contractor getting $85 an hour is cheaper than a city garbageman getting $25 an hour. Contracting out work is a great way to enrich contracting companies... Not save money.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704050204576219073867182108.html

Damned good read. More Americans now work for government than work in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities combined.



If you cannot see the problems inherent in this situation, then congratulations, your lobotomy was a smashing success! Cue squeals about the sensationalist right wing corporate media conspiracy and complaints about the evil rich . . .

You also spend more in taxes on healthcare than the UK or France while that is just 1/20'th what you spend on healtcare to get 60% covered.

So what? You have a nation with more beuocracy and static socialism than any other nation, is this new to you?

You pay more for less when it comes to government using your money, it's because you don't let them compete on the free market for true market prices because that would mean unjust competition, which it would, if it was a market economics design from the get go and everyone else wasn't already livining on subsidies.

The US is probably the most socialist nation in the western world if you count in corporate welfare as socialism, which it should be noted as since it is the HEIGHT of socialism.

Wait... what...

 

[JimW1949]

Did the number of Government jobs go up, or did the number of manufacturing jobs go down?

Obviously, since so many manufacturing jobs have gone overseas, this lowers the number of manufacturing here in the United States, so the ratio between the two changes. Doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that one out.

As has been mentioned, many farming jobs, as well as mining jobs, have been mechanized so that the number of people needed to do those jobs has gone down. Then too, we are importing a lot of food from other countries. Why do we do that? Supposedly it is because we can import it cheaper than we can grow it.

 

[comptr6]

Lol! Why this is bad went right over the leftists heads. Lobotomy successful.

Great job preempting the pathetic libtards not getting it. haha idiots!

 

[majob1112]

Government jobs are usually glorified in the benefits and pay they offer. It's really a no brainer that some people a government job, where training is usually offered along with employment, in comparison to private industry jobs that require experience.

 

[ShawnD1]

LOL, seriously? Right, because a garbageman contractor getting $85 an hour is cheaper than a city garbageman getting $25 an hour. Contracting out work is a great way to enrich contracting companies... Not save money.

It saves money because you don't need to deal with their unions.

Right now I work for a contract engineering group. This company is expanding extremely fast because we're doing work that was typically done by union engineers for larger companies. Due to things like pension obligations and double or triple overtime pay, those companies decided that it's cheaper to hire contract engineers than it is to do stuff in-house. As people retire from the big companies, they are never replaced because it's too expensive to hire new guys under the union.

Another thing is that it's easy to fire and replace contract people. If company A is sucking ass, they get kicked to the curb and some other company immediately takes their spot. They can't strike or organize some month long garbage protest like they do EVERY SINGLE YEAR in the peak of summer when the smell is unbearable. The result is better service. The government garbage people totally fuck us around every summer, it's as predictable as the tide.

 

[Zebo]

Yup three elements we call material wealth are things that are grown, mined, or manufactured. Govt does none of these, most professions do none of these but are asset strippers, middle men, facilitators, counters or sponges off that wealth. Many are mandated many are needed but none create wealth.

For a long time now, we Americans have used credit to hide our lack of wealth generation which is unsustainable and reality is coming and will hit us like baseball bat to the head.

Here is were evil rich step in. While they bamboozled you with shill corporate economists telling you how great offshoring production would be for you and they made massive profit by employing slave labor, they also loaned you money they made back in the form of treasuries and municipal bonds to make you pretend you still had wealth and paid people to sit at home watching TV.

Now here is where it gets interesting -If you are a American citizen you effectively have joint and several liability with the government. If our country goes to war we go to war. If our country needs your children for war they will take your children for war. If our country owes money they will take your money. Wikipedia defines joint and several liability as follows:

If parties have joint liability, then they are each liable up to the full amount of the relevant obligation.

The key word is FULL....each party is responsible for the full amount of the obligations incurred by the other partner.

What do you think they are talking of taking 401ks for? That will be interesting taking all your money to pay off people who sold you out 20-30 years ago.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Looks like government jobs (state and local) grew with increase population while manufacturing jobs got outsourced.

http://www.npg.org/facts/us_historical_pops.htm

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Great job preempting the pathetic libtards not getting it. haha idiots!

Great job at being some political hacks dummy account.

 

[ProfJohn]

FYI manufacturing jobs did not get outsources, they got more productive.

We are making more stuff in this country than ever before dollar wise. It just takes a lot less people to make it than 30 years ago.

 

[Throckmorton]

FYI manufacturing jobs did not get outsources, they got more productive.

We are making more stuff in this country than ever before dollar wise. It just takes a lot less people to make it than 30 years ago.

LOL. Look in your closet and let us know how many of your clothes were made in America.

 

[ProfJohn]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41349653/ns/business-us_business/

Damn MSNBC and their pesky facts.

Yet America remains by far the No. 1 manufacturing country. It out-produces No. 2 China by more than 40 percent. U.S. manufacturers cranked out nearly $1.7 trillion in goods in 2009, according to the United Nations.

The story of American factories essentially boils down to this: They've managed to make more goods with fewer workers.

The United States has lost nearly 8 million factory jobs since manufacturing employment peaked at 19.6 million in mid-1979. U.S. manufacturers have placed near the top of world rankings in productivity gains over the past three decades.

 

[Naeeldar]

It saves money because you don't need to deal with their unions.

Right now I work for a contract engineering group. This company is expanding extremely fast because we're doing work that was typically done by union engineers for larger companies. Due to things like pension obligations and double or triple overtime pay, those companies decided that it's cheaper to hire contract engineers than it is to do stuff in-house. As people retire from the big companies, they are never replaced because it's too expensive to hire new guys under the union.

Another thing is that it's easy to fire and replace contract people. If company A is sucking ass, they get kicked to the curb and some other company immediately takes their spot. They can't strike or organize some month long garbage protest like they do EVERY SINGLE YEAR in the peak of summer when the smell is unbearable. The result is better service. The government garbage people totally fuck us around every summer, it's as predictable as the tide.

Sadly this seems to be the case for anything govt related. I work for a tech firm that provides support contracts for large corporations/govt. Specifically I have a state govt and federal agency as a client. I have to tell you that ranging from healthcare, to manufacturing, to technology, to govt clients - the State govt in particular has some of the dumbest people I have ever encountered. Incompetent on so many levels, that at other private industries - I've seen one Manager level contact doing the same work/jobs of a Director, two managers, and one AVP. It's sad really.

Federal is a lot better at the management level but the low level workers are another story.

Not being able to fire people is a MASSIVE drain on our taxes.

 

[Throckmorton]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41349653/ns/business-us_business/

Damn MSNBC and their pesky facts.

Two words: Trade balance

 

[ShawnD1]

Two words: Trade balance

translation: USA manufacturing is stronger than ever before, but now Americans are buying things from China as well

USA is still a very strong country. Doom is not around the corner. Not even close.

 

[comptr6]

Great job at being some political hacks dummy account.

Don't know what you're talking about. I'm not anyone's dummy account. If you need to know, this is who I am. ()

 

[ShawnD1]

With how fucked up your posts are, I thought you were this person
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB4vsODbdks

 

[JSt0rm]

Don't know what you're talking about. I'm not anyone's dummy account. If you need to know, this is who I am. ()

lmao.

 

[Throckmorton]

translation: USA manufacturing is stronger than ever before, but now Americans are buying things from China as well

USA is still a very strong country. Doom is not around the corner. Not even close.

Manufacturing $ being high while manufacturing jobs continually decline says to me that the corporations are benefiting and the rest of us are losing. That matches the decline in real wages over the past 40+ years.

WTF are they manufacturing? I can count on one hand the things I own that were manufactured here.

Just try to buy a piece of electronics made here. They don't exist. You can't even buy electronics made in Japan or Taiwan anymore. They all outsourced to China.

 

[nonlnear]

Sadly this seems to be the case for anything govt related. I work for a tech firm that provides support contracts for large corporations/govt.

CSC?