Whoa, madoka got banned? Had no idea... was wondering why I didn't see any more lego posts.
Whoa, madoka got banned? Had no idea... was wondering why I didn't see any more lego posts.yes 100$k has historically been called the ATOT minimum wage (i think alky started that)
but once madoka got banned, the average income here dropped by like 100$k
Investing in decent index funds is fine for most people - you get the benefit of investing in a broad variety of stocks without having to worry about trying to pick the specific winners. Plus, it doesn't require that much knowledge to pick a decent fund or two; from my own experience, I've had quite good returns over the last 10 years. However, at the end of the day, it still takes money to make money this way. People still need to be able to forgo some money now for future gains.With a funds there's less involvement needed. Yearly review usually. Stocks could be quite different.
Hey you never know. Since it's AGI based maybe we're a bunch of high savers with access to an unusually large amount of tax advantaged spaceUmm ... no one on ATOT should be receiving a stimulus check since we are all ballers.
Right?
It has never been easier or cheaper to invest in the stock market - something that has an incredible track record of annual dependable positive returns. Gone are account minimums, there are now alternatives to high etf trade fees, high ER mutual fund fees and there is an incredible wealth of good, free information to get you started.
The biggest roadblock is that someone has to do something for decades for it to pay off and people want flashy and immediate gratification
You still need lot of money for a big return though in most cases. Ideally, extra money. Money you are willing to lose. For example if I wanted to buy big name stocks like TSLA, APPL etc with my broker I need to buy 100 at a time. That's around 70 grand. I just don't have that kind of money. Even the smaller stocks that are like $10 that's still 10 grand. I don't have that kind of money either. You also need to know what you're doing. Ponyo knows his way around the market and is a much bigger expert at it than I am.
Not wanting to play with the more risky stuff like options is not fear, it's being smart. It's stupid to do stuff you're not comfortable with if it can risk losing money.
I'm not poor but I'm not rich either. I mostly live pay to pay by the time all the bills, taxes etc come out. To get back on topic if I got the stimulus chances are I would just be putting it towards the credit line. One big financial regret of mine is buying a truck for 14k a bit over a year ago when I could have bought a car and trailer instead for way cheaper, like around 5-6k. There was a used car for sale at the time for like 3k and a good aluminium trailer is around 1-2k. Don't really need a V8 to carry a couple sheets of plywood. Still paying that off. But at the time a truck is really what I had been wanting so I got it and may as well enjoy it now.
Other than contributing to my company ESPP and a little bit of small stocks I'm more in debt paying mode these days. Every extra money I get my hands on just goes towards the credit line, and once that's paid off I'll increase my mortgage payment. My ESPP is really the only stock that's doing well for me, but that works differently, since it's 12% of may pay that goes towards it and it can buy fractional units. I can't do that manually myself with other stocks as I can only buy 100 at once. This is something that's setup through my company. I eventually want to buy off grid land as there is less costs of living there, so my long term goal to get "rich" is to simply live a dream with lots of land, and very low costs. I'm more willing to put land on credit than stocks. Land is guarantee and is something I'll have. Stocks can tank.
Maybe it's all weird in Canada, but here you can buy individual stocks - one share of Apple, Tesla, or whatever - with little to no fees.
Not many think the stock market Is the primary measuring stick of the economy for the whole country. I sure don't. Only people like Trump thinks that and people like you. I know there are plenty of people suffering out there right now which is why I support these stimulus checks even though I won't see any dollar on my end. Any help is better than no help and more should be done.
You work with the system you have. We live in capitalistic society. Owners make bulk of the money while the workers make the rest. In this setup, if your a worker, your focus should be to become an owner so you can participate and get a piece of that bulk money. And great thing about the US is that it has the most robust and best public equity markets in the world. Our stock market is far the largest, strongest, and the envy of the world. And the beautiful thing is you won the fucking sperm lottery and was born here so you have super easy access to this great wealth building machine of ours. And I don't know why you guys have the idea the stock market is zero sums game. The US public stock market has been the greatest generator of wealth in this country and the world. And it's open to anyone to join in and invest. And millions do invest through their 401k, IRA, pensions, insurance, etc. Yes, even the "trash collector or food service person or photographer or graphic designer or whatever, that busts their fucking asses day in and day out." They have equal access to this public market and they invest. Everyone has access to index funds. Investing in index funds isn't rocket science and doesn't require any intellectual ability or financial knowledge. But you have to make the choice to invest. And many do invest through their work via 401k and retirement accounts. But no one is going to take your money and put it In index funds without your consent.
Public market is wonderful thing. It removes the income and society barriers and allows anyone with even $1 to invest and become owner in companies they otherwise wouldn't be able to own. And as an owner, you participate in all the upside and downside. Which would you rather have? Private market where the only the ultra rich and well connected can participate and become owners? Or public market where even average Joe like me can become owner? There are many private companies like SpaceX, Chick-fil-A, Stripe, etc. I want to invest in but can't because I'm not ultra wealthy and don't have the connections. To invest in SpaceX and Stripe, you have to be accredited investor, which requires minimum net liquid worth of $1 million or $200k annual income. I'm accredited investor yet I can't get access to SpaceX and Stripe shares. Not only you have to have money, you need extreme luck and connections to be able to buy direct private shares from some other rich person who wants to sell. Which makes SpaceX and Stripe shares extremely hard to come by. Private market is definition of the rich boys club. Public market is not. The rich control both markets because they have the most money.
Short term, stock market is a casino. Longterm, nothing beats return on equities and returns from the S&P pretty much outpaces everything else. Compounding is extremely powerful tool and everyone has access to index funds and the magic of compounding. This is how you build wealth. It takes time, discipline, and many years of hard work. It's not get rich quick scheme. It's the long game. Generally, time in the market > market timing. So quit bitching and make the commitment to invest. Or not and keep talking about the evils of the stock market and how unfair everything is. Yeah, life is unfair. But quit playing victim and make changes in your life to better yourself.
People "know" (no one truly "knows", they just manage risk IMO) their way around the market because they take the time to learn it, it's not some ability they were born with. Instead of fearing the market, take the time to learn it.You still need lot of money for a big return though in most cases. Ideally, extra money. Money you are willing to lose. For example if I wanted to buy big name stocks like TSLA, APPL etc with my broker I need to buy 100 at a time. That's around 70 grand. I just don't have that kind of money. Even the smaller stocks that are like $10 that's still 10 grand. I don't have that kind of money either. You also need to know what you're doing. Ponyo knows his way around the market and is a much bigger expert at it than I am.
Not wanting to play with the more risky stuff like options is not fear, it's being smart. It's stupid to do stuff you're not comfortable with if it can risk losing money.
I'm not poor but I'm not rich either. I mostly live pay to pay by the time all the bills, taxes etc come out. To get back on topic if I got the stimulus chances are I would just be putting it towards the credit line. One big financial regret of mine is buying a truck for 14k a bit over a year ago when I could have bought a car and trailer instead for way cheaper, like around 5-6k. There was a used car for sale at the time for like 3k and a good aluminium trailer is around 1-2k. Don't really need a V8 to carry a couple sheets of plywood. Still paying that off. But at the time a truck is really what I had been wanting so I got it and may as well enjoy it now.
Other than contributing to my company ESPP and a little bit of small stocks I'm more in debt paying mode these days. Every extra money I get my hands on just goes towards the credit line, and once that's paid off I'll increase my mortgage payment. My ESPP is really the only stock that's doing well for me, but that works differently, since it's 12% of may pay that goes towards it and it can buy fractional units. I can't do that manually myself with other stocks as I can only buy 100 at once. This is something that's setup through my company. I eventually want to buy off grid land as there is less costs of living there, so my long term goal to get "rich" is to simply live a dream with lots of land, and very low costs. I'm more willing to put land on credit than stocks. Land is guarantee and is something I'll have. Stocks can tank.
Once I establish the homestead and come up with a passive source of income, I could then sell the house, I can probably get like 250k for it. Though I would wait a few years for that and keep working, so I can fully monitor the homestead to make sure it's truly functional. (power generation, heat, water filtration etc). Probably go to it on my days off. I could look at investment options for the house money too at that time, as that is an amount that I can actually do more with. For an amount that big though I would probably just go through a financial advisor though.
You still need lot of money for a big return though in most cases. Ideally, extra money. Money you are willing to lose. For example if I wanted to buy big name stocks like TSLA, APPL etc with my broker I need to buy 100 at a time. That's around 70 grand. I just don't have that kind of money. Even the smaller stocks that are like $10 that's still 10 grand. I don't have that kind of money either. You also need to know what you're doing. Ponyo knows his way around the market and is a much bigger expert at it than I am.
lol. The good old days of alky and madoka. I actually found madoka recently on Reddit while randomly browsing. Madoka is the same baller still buying crazy number of Legos, Gundam toys, guns, spare MacBooks he won't use, spare houses to use as storage and crash at, etc. lol. He still has his Nissan GTR, Porsche Cayman, McLaren 570s, etc. Apparently, madoka moved to or is longterm staying in Seoul, South Korea, at the moment. Lucky bastard. I want to go there too but I don't want to deal with the 2 weeks mandatory government quarantine right now.
I know you enjoy cyberstalking @brianmanahan , so here's link to post madoka made recently about moving to and living in Korea.
But please leave the guy alone and don't harass him though. I haven't contacted him even though I found him. If he's in Korea when I go later this year, I'm thinking of contacting him to see if he wants to meet up and get a drink.
Ended up with the corps and over seas anyway. Enhanced unemployment(underemployment too) is a better way but that's just my opinion.
Hey you never know. Since it's AGI based maybe we're a bunch of high savers with access to an unusually large amount of tax advantaged space
He still has all his houses in California. But now he wants to buy a place in Seoul south of the river in case he's ever in the area and need a place to crash even though he already owns a home in Seoul. lol. Normal people would just rent a room at a motel/hotel for the night or just call a cab and go back home to sleep. But not madoka. He wants to buy a place just in case he's ever in that part of city at night and he's too tired to go back home. Reddit people hate people who brag and flex so they're starting to give him hard time in the r/korea and related subs. They don't know him like we do and the ridiculous financial brags are madoka being madoka and flexing.WHERE DOES HE STORE ALL HIS LEGOS NOW???????
I hate to quote the orange menace but............Fake news.yes 100$k has historically been called the ATOT minimum wage (i think alky started that)
but once madoka got banned, the average income here dropped by like 100$k
I hate to quote the orange menace but............Fake news.
madoka was never banned.
He just decided he didn't want to come back.
Just like many of the others you know that don't post here anymore.
What is big money to you? For the last 33 years the Canadian stock market has returned 10.8%.* Let's knock that down to 7% to be conservative and account for inflation. Let's say you start out investing $1k into the MSCI Canadian Index Fund. Some quick Googling indicates that this would likely mimic the general Canadian stock market returns so at first glance this seems like a good way to get a 7% average annual ROI with minimal effort and negligible annual review. So you put in $1k this year and next. Then you put in $2k the next two years. Then $4k the next two years. Then $6k for the next thirty years. You'd end up with ~$750,000. All for well below $10k per year and giving ample ramp up time to adjust spending habits or, hopefully, raises. Take too long? Up that $6k to $10k and cut 5 years off the timeline to 3/4 of a million dollars. Or, better yet, start doing $10k next year and you'll hit $750k in 25 years total. Tack on another 5 years for over $1M. Using conservative numbers.
Index funds, time and compound interest make it easy. It only gets hard when you take one of those away.
*I'm more familiar with the US market returns which is ~7.5% adjusted for inflation and including dividends for the last 100 or so years. That includes the Great Depression, Oil Crisis, run away inflation of the 70s, .com burst, Great Recession and COVID. Sure you can lose money but there isn't a statistically better alternative.
A great many people have not been banned but instead decided to not post any more.oh huh, i thought he got perma'd after his last thread
What is big money to you? For the last 33 years the Canadian stock market has returned 10.8%.* Let's knock that down to 7% to be conservative and account for inflation. Let's say you start out investing $1k into the MSCI Canadian Index Fund. Some quick Googling indicates that this would likely mimic the general Canadian stock market returns so at first glance this seems like a good way to get a 7% average annual ROI with minimal effort and negligible annual review. So you put in $1k this year and next. Then you put in $2k the next two years. Then $4k the next two years. Then $6k for the next thirty years. You'd end up with ~$750,000. All for well below $10k per year and giving ample ramp up time to adjust spending habits or, hopefully, raises. Take too long? Up that $6k to $10k and cut 5 years off the timeline to 3/4 of a million dollars. Or, better yet, start doing $10k next year and you'll hit $750k in 25 years total. Tack on another 5 years for over $1M. Using conservative numbers.
Index funds, time and compound interest make it easy. It only gets hard when you take one of those away.
*I'm more familiar with the US market returns which is ~7.5% adjusted for inflation and including dividends for the last 100 or so years. That includes the Great Depression, Oil Crisis, run away inflation of the 70s, .com burst, Great Recession and COVID. Sure you can lose money but there isn't a statistically better alternative.
Number of dependents plays a big factor in if you get a check or not since it extends the phase-out of income.
But yeah, between all the tax-advantages I'm in the middle of the phase out for most of the stimulus checks with....
2x Maxed out 401ks (Drops AGI by $38,000)
1x Maxed out family HSA (Drops AGI by $7,000)
Other items (e.g. Employer-based healthcare cafeteria plans + dental - Drops AGI by another ~$3000).
Shouldn't you be investing in some good Canadian businesses, like Ubisoft or Shopify?
How would I do that then? I'm not sure what an index fund is. If it's that easy why is everyone not doing it though? I have a hard time believing that 1k can turn into 750k but if there is a way of doing it I'm game to know the details. Where do I sign up for that and what is the risk?
Knowing how the stock market works and knowing "the market" is also two different things. you need to really follow the company you are investing in and know every little detail, of not only that company, but the companies that are involved, so you can make the right moves. To do it right, it's really a full time job. The real hardcore people will buy a Bloomberg terminal and do it all day. For example when Tesla makes an announcement about a new battery tech, if you're already in on it and the industry you know what to invest in, not just Tesla, but the lithium companies, or the companies that provide tooling for the factory etc. My uncle is very deep into mine stocks and tracks every detail of a mine and knows which ones are good to invest in and which ones are not. A mine with a high total cost of production per oz is not a good investment vs one that has a low total cost of production for example. These are all things you need to know to get big gains.
An index fund is a composite of the larger sector its based on. Basically it buys pieces of all the things in that investment bucket weighted to their market share with the goal of matching what that sector is doing as a whole. So for a S&P 500 index fund in the US when you buy an index fund share (or fraction of a share) you are investing in each and every one those 500 companies (Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Visa, Johnson & Johnson etc etc). So you don't have to care if Johnson & Johnson is being well managed or even understand the industries they operate in because your returns are based on what all 500 of those companies are doing. If the S&P 500 goes up overall you make money, if it goes down you lose money. And the S&P 500 has gone up way more than it has gone down.
Keep in mind that my example didn't only use $1k to get to $750k. There were increases in there as well as a notable timeframe. That said many people work for 40-45 years so that timeframe fits in there and accounts for the 18-25 range which is indeed harder to save during.
The easiest way to start would be to open a target date retirement index fund. These will adjust the risk profile for you and get more conservative as it gets closer to your designated retirement date (when you can less afford risk). Looks like Vanguard now has Canadian target date retirement funds but not a ton information on their website: https://www.vanguardcanada.ca/institutional/etfs/target-retirement-funds.htm Just call them up - open an account and start putting money into it. Make sure that is a scheduled and automatic thing - not something you have to think about.
Looks like there is even a Canadian specific Bogleheads sister site if you want to learn more. I'm guessing the posters on there will also be very helpful like the US site although would likely want you to be familiar with this and this before asking for opinions and help. My knowledge is pretty US centric (since that is where my $ is) so I don't know how common it is for Canadian companies to offer additional investment opportunities for employees. If so you'll want to look into those. A quick perusal of the Canadian site I linked earlier would seem to indicate an inclination to include a decent amount of US stocks while investing. Whereas someone in the US might to a 75% US stock/25% International stock allocation in Canada it seems like it's split between 'Canada' stocks, 'US' stocks and 'All other' stocks
This might sound like a lot and it might seem a bit daunting at first but if you spend a few hours learning it sticks with you. Financial planning and investing doesn't change nearly as quickly as tech specs so that baseline education will serve you for decades.
As for why people don't do it? I'm not sure but if I had to guess it's because of a couple of reasons:
-It's not flashy or fast. You see headlines of "If you invested $100 in this company you'd be a millionaire after 2 years!" but not "If you had done this consistently for 30 years you'd be a millionaire!". No one wants to wait 30 years. They want to pick a winner NOW
-It takes a little bit of time to get started. People think it's a huge commitment. But let's say the concepts aren't resonating for some reason and it takes you a couple hours a week for 6 months to learn. Out of the next 40-70 years it will benefit you that is a miniscule percentage of time and effort (And, in reality, a Vanguard advisor will likely get you on the right track faster than that so it can still be pretty fast)
-Everyone knows someone who knows someone who made a ton of money fast by doing something else! Most of those stories turn out to be exaggerations or incredible luck that you are unlikely to replicate but sure sounds a lot easier than boring 'ol index funds.
An index fund is a composite of the larger sector its based on. Basically it buys pieces of all the things in that investment bucket weighted to their market share with the goal of matching what that sector is doing as a whole. So for a S&P 500 index fund in the US when you buy an index fund share (or fraction of a share) you are investing in each and every one those 500 companies (Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Visa, Johnson & Johnson etc etc). So you don't have to care if Johnson & Johnson is being well managed or even understand the industries they operate in because your returns are based on what all 500 of those companies are doing. If the S&P 500 goes up overall you make money, if it goes down you lose money. And the S&P 500 has gone up way more than it has gone down.
Keep in mind that my example didn't only use $1k to get to $750k. There were increases in there as well as a notable timeframe. That said many people work for 40-45 years so that timeframe fits in there and accounts for the 18-25 range which is indeed harder to save during.
The easiest way to start would be to open a target date retirement index fund. These will adjust the risk profile for you and get more conservative as it gets closer to your designated retirement date (when you can less afford risk). Looks like Vanguard now has Canadian target date retirement funds but not a ton information on their website: https://www.vanguardcanada.ca/institutional/etfs/target-retirement-funds.htm Just call them up - open an account and start putting money into it. Make sure that is a scheduled and automatic thing - not something you have to think about.
Looks like there is even a Canadian specific Bogleheads sister site if you want to learn more. I'm guessing the posters on there will also be very helpful like the US site although would likely want you to be familiar with this and this before asking for opinions and help. My knowledge is pretty US centric (since that is where my $ is) so I don't know how common it is for Canadian companies to offer additional investment opportunities for employees. If so you'll want to look into those. A quick perusal of the Canadian site I linked earlier would seem to indicate an inclination to include a decent amount of US stocks while investing. Whereas someone in the US might to a 75% US stock/25% International stock allocation in Canada it seems like it's split between 'Canada' stocks, 'US' stocks and 'All other' stocks
This might sound like a lot and it might seem a bit daunting at first but if you spend a few hours learning it sticks with you. Financial planning and investing doesn't change nearly as quickly as tech specs so that baseline education will serve you for decades.
As for why people don't do it? I'm not sure but if I had to guess it's because of a couple of reasons:
-It's not flashy or fast. You see headlines of "If you invested $100 in this company you'd be a millionaire after 2 years!" but not "If you had done this consistently for 30 years you'd be a millionaire!". No one wants to wait 30 years. They want to pick a winner NOW
-It takes a little bit of time to get started. People think it's a huge commitment. But let's say the concepts aren't resonating for some reason and it takes you a couple hours a week for 6 months to learn. Out of the next 40-70 years it will benefit you that is a miniscule percentage of time and effort (And, in reality, a Vanguard advisor will likely get you on the right track faster than that so it can still be pretty fast)
-Everyone knows someone who knows someone who made a ton of money fast by doing something else! Most of those stories turn out to be exaggerations or incredible luck that you are unlikely to replicate but sure sounds a lot easier than boring 'ol index funds.