What brought down WTC7

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Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
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And nothing was pushing down on anything regarding the Towers. Gravity was pulling at it and all manner of structure was pushing up on it too... Apparently, there was more up then down for the longest time...

The vertical columns in a building ALWAYS have force pushing down on them 24/7 that is how the load is carried floor to floor all the way into the foundation. If those vertical members flex then they lose integrity and will cause the building to collapse.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
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If they were trying to be objective at all, they would have at least loaded down the column they ignited thermite around with a bunch of weight like they did with the beam and the jet fuel. Instead, they made sure the column wouldn't fail by having it stand without any load, in a situation where even if the thermite was enough to turn the steel to the consistency of rubber it could have still stood.

Thermite as a means of destroying steel doesn't work well, it is slow and requires lots of material remain in place for a long period of time. Does anyone really think that they could put enough of this nano thermite on the beams and keep it in place and ignite it and do it all without anyone noticing ?

If it was a horizontal steel column and you piled it up on top and let it sit there burning it might burn through. But a vertical column with some painted on ? no way .

Truthers will never believe what people tell them, they could have a front row seat with God himself showing them how it happened and they would still say there is a conspiracy.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Can I write that 2000 replies to this thread is a little excessive?
It would be better if you could write a post actually adressing the OP, as the vast majorty of the posts in this thread do anything but.

The vertical columns in a building ALWAYS have force pushing down on them 24/7 that is how the load is carried floor to floor all the way into the foundation. If those vertical members flex then they lose integrity and will cause the building to collapse.
Rather, they will flex while the structure collapses, and the force exerted in flexing them being imparted by the acceleration of gravity pulling down on them, and the resistance they provide reducing that acceleration bellow that of free fall as long as that structure is there to do so. Also note that we aren't talking about free standing column here, but rather a collection of columns laterally supported by their connections to each other though the beams and such which make up the floors of the building. Pretty much all of that structural resistance had to be displaced to facilitate the observed period of free fall.

Thermite as a means of destroying steel doesn't work well, it is slow and requires lots of material remain in place for a long period of time.
I wasn't talking about destroying steel, I was talking about weakening it to the point of failure, which simply requires generating enough heat to do so, and ignited thermite generates a lot of heat. Again, had the beam exposed to thermite in the NG program been loaded with enough weight, it may well have failed, and that is just with the bog-standard sparkler dust they were using, not highly engineered nano-thermite which generates far more heat.

Does anyone really think that they could put enough of this nano thermite on the beams and keep it in place and ignite it and do it all without anyone noticing ?
The most likely explanation for the nano-thermite found in the dust by various labs is that it was sprayed on by people thinking it was fireproofing, triggered by remote ignition mechanisms which also possibly were installed unwittingly. Regardless, I understand the difference between probability and possibility; do you?

If it was a horizontal steel column and you piled it up on top and let it sit there burning it might burn through. But a vertical column with some painted on ? no way.
Nano-thermite painted onto the beams would do a whole lot more to weaken them than the office fires claimed to have brought WTC7 down alone according to the official story. Besides, I don't claim to know what the nano-thermite found in the dust was used for, or how specifically the buildings were brought down, the only thing I'm in a position to say for certain is that the official story is physically impossible.

Truthers will never believe what people tell them, they could have a front row seat with God himself showing them how it happened and they would still say there is a conspiracy.
I believe what is demonstratively true, I don't take faith based claims to be anything more than what they are, and I highly doubt you our anyone else has a front row seat with God. On the other hand, you falser seem to believe that God confirm the official story, much like young Earth creationist claiming the Bible proves the Earth is only six minimums old.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
The vertical columns in a building ALWAYS have force pushing down on them 24/7 that is how the load is carried floor to floor all the way into the foundation. If those vertical members flex then they lose integrity and will cause the building to collapse.

I think we were talking about doing a proper Scale and as an aside, gravity and that it 'attracts' or 'pulls' down... nothing on top pushing it down... while the columns resist that action by, I guess one can say pushes up... I have to think that way cuz while the vertical columns are resisting load they too are being pulled down. I even understand compression and tension loads.

I understand the bracing and beams and all that stuff keeps the columns from buckling... that is what NIST said happened to column 79... the beam from 44 to 79 walked off 79 because of thermal expansion.:hmm:
 
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LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Thermite as a means of destroying steel doesn't work well, it is slow and requires lots of material remain in place for a long period of time. Does anyone really think that they could put enough of this nano thermite on the beams and keep it in place and ignite it and do it all without anyone noticing ? If it was a horizontal steel column and you piled it up on top and let it sit there burning it might burn through. But a vertical column with some painted on ? no way . Truthers will never believe what people tell them, they could have a front row seat with God himself showing them how it happened and they would still say there is a conspiracy.

I think the folks said there are two applications of a few that might have been employed at WTC... one was to blow the weld area and the other was adding sulphur and weakening the steel.
I've seen Magnesium fires eat through steel like it was butter. Almost sank Oriskany in '66. This nano stuff is much hotter I'm told or more 'gasious' than C4 if you want exploding it.
I don't know about spraying it on.. but it can be formed. In any case, molten stuff was found so something moltened it. Wasn't fuel nor paper.

I think the Tower issue was that it fell so fast through the path of greatest resistance. How does gravity do that while keeping in mind Newton's third law? You eventually run out of the upper bloc's mass. What enabled the collapse to continue?
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
Your signature describes you well Kyle.

"I am just a worthless liar, I am just an imbecile. I will only complicate you, trust in me and fall as well. Trust me, trust me."

From Wiki: This is lyrics
from "Sober" a song about a friend of the band Tool, whose artistic expression only comes out when he is under the influence.

Perfect.

 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
The CBC has a special on TV tonight titled:

The unofficial story (on the fifth estate)

"On September 11, 2001 the world watched in shock and disbelief as planes flew in to New York’s World Trade Center and the Pentagon in Washington, and Americans realized they were under attack. But by whom? What really happened? In The Unofficial Story, the fifth estate’s Bob McKeown introduces us to people who believe the real force behind the attacks was not Osama Bin Laden, but the U.S. government itself.
"

You can also watch the full episode after 11 PM ET on this site
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2009-2010/the_unofficial_story/
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Your signature describes you well Kyle.

"I am just a worthless liar, I am just an imbecile. I will only complicate you, trust in me and fall as well. Trust me, trust me."
It's sarcasm, which Tool's lyrics are full of.

From Wiki: This is lyrics from "Sober" a song about a friend of the band Tool, whose artistic expression only comes out when he is under the influence.
Wiki mischaracterizes Adam's statement, which you could have seen for yourself if you followed the citation to the interview transcript where he actually states:

The song and video are based on a guy we know who is at his artistic best when he's loaded.
As for what the Song is about, Maynard explains that here:

It's saying why can't we get along? It's about unity.

Anyway, here is another one of Maynard's songs, sarcastically directed at people like yourself. A bit of the lyrics:

Pay no mind what other voices say
They don't care about you, like I do, (like I do)
Safe from pain, and truth, and choice, and other poison devils,
See, they don't give a fuck about you, like I do.

Just stay with me,
safe and ignorant, go,
back to sleep, go
back to sleep
As for the The CBC program, I'm guessing it will be another hit peace, though I doubt it could be as lame as the recent one from National Geographic.
 
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LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
As for the The CBC program, I'm guessing it will be another hit peace, though I doubt it could be as lame as the recent one from National Geographic.

I missed watching the streaming video of that but garnered it was not to be a 'hit piece' but, rather, a portfolio of the Truther movement.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
All they have to do is showcase enough nuts who think the Pentagon was blown up from the inside or that the planes that hit the towers were holograms and leave out any real discussion of actual proof that the official conspiracy theory is false to make it a hit piece. I haven't seen the program yet, and the link now says it won't be available online until the 29th, but I'd wager that is exactly what they did.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
All they have to do is showcase enough nuts who think the Pentagon was blown up from the inside or that the planes that hit the towers were holograms and leave out any real discussion of actual proof that the official conspiracy theory is false to make it a hit piece. I haven't seen the program yet, and the link now says it won't be available online until the 29th, but I'd wager that is exactly what they did.

Interesting you mentioned 'blownup from inside'... I saw a photo with columns bent outward.. only two of them but still it is interesting.

I'd expect them to include all manner of comments and notions of what happened and what folks believe. But it seems to be more oriented toward what the Canadians and others feel and that is that it was not totally the work of our 19 astronauts who spent their time prior to the 9/11 tragedy making sure folks would noticed and remember them... for some reason.

It is the little bits as well as the larger issues that bug me... For instance: Government says they found two terrorist passports one at each of two sites... and at another site some kind of burnt ID type thing and that red bandanna in Pa. How many driver licenses did they find, I wonder?

I watched a video with Ryan Mackey and an engineer discussing 'jolt'. Aside from Mackey being a wise acre but probably a frustrated nice guy at heart tired of dealing with folks who 'just don't get it', I heard how he deflected the question along with the host about the redundancy of the building structure.. He did math suggesting how easy it was to destroy the building but it seems he based it on the structural aspect being 100% and not the possible 300% suggested by the developers and engineers. He falls back on associated elements to justify his points... not a bad idea if you accept his associated elements.

He said the 'tilt' made the 'jolt' a non factor. That would be true if true. I saw no evidence reflected in the building facade to allow for that 'tilt' until well after the initial collapse bit. And I saw the top bit with the spire 'dissolve' about 4 floors of itself before the main or lower structure began to collapse. It lost mass.. and ergo, energy. Don't seem enough left to destroy the lower part... This was to do with the Tower...:sneaky:
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
As for the The CBC program, I'm guessing it will be another hit peace, though I doubt it could be as lame as the recent one from National Geographic.

As for your sig the sarcasm is lost on me and many. You're just calling yourself an imbecile.

As for the CBC show, I taped it last night and will watch it soon.

Why would you even bother to comment on the show BEFORE seeing it?
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
I just finished watching that Fifth Estate show on my DVR.

All the points they covered have already been discussed in this thread. The show pointed out some anomalies in the official explanation and the twuthers inability to formulate any rational credible alternative explanation.

The main conclusion is that twuthers assert the official explanation is not possible and that once they convince enough people, another official investigation will be done to find out what really happened.



From my perspective, the twuthers came out looking like a bunch of loons.

On a side note, Kylebisme has been nominated by several people for the 2009 AT ownage of the year award. I think it would be well deserved as he put a lot of efforts into it.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
I just finished watching that Fifth Estate show on my DVR.

All the points they covered have already been discussed in this thread. The show pointed out some anomalies in the official explanation and the twuthers inability to formulate any rational credible alternative explanation.

The main conclusion is that twuthers assert the official explanation is not possible and that once they convince enough people, another official investigation will be done to find out what really happened.



From my perspective, the twuthers came out looking like a bunch of loons.

On a side note, Kylebisme has been nominated by several people for the 2009 AT ownage of the year award. I think it would be well deserved as he put a lot of efforts into it.


The other day the site indicated November 29th they'd 'stream' it.. Now I see they say they can't stream outside of Canada. Oh Well... Guess it was not informative in any event.

From my perspective, obvious bias clouds the view. I think the various government investigations had a bias that precluded inclusion of what did not fit the theory they held. I think that ought to be examined by doing a credible investigation and answering all the questions and hopefully put this to bed.
It is sorta like why the UFO's only appear to nut cases... but, nut cases see reality too... they simply examine the bits they support... NIST is like that.
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
I just finished watching that Fifth Estate show on my DVR.

All the points they covered have already been discussed in this thread. The show pointed out some anomalies in the official explanation and the twuthers inability to formulate any rational credible alternative explanation.

The main conclusion is that twuthers assert the official explanation is not possible and that once they convince enough people, another official investigation will be done to find out what really happened.



From my perspective, the twuthers came out looking like a bunch of loons.

On a side note, Kylebisme has been nominated by several people for the 2009 AT ownage of the year award. I think it would be well deserved as he put a lot of efforts into it.

He's been nominated by TWO mentally challenged people. That hardly counts. Especially since there's little (see: none) ownage happening TO him. Keep on truckin, though.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Interesting you mentioned 'blownup from inside'... I saw a photo with columns bent outward.. only two of them but still it is interesting.
I'm not familiar with the photo you refer to, but the evidence I've seen makes it rather clear that it was hit by something, and I'm not certain it was the plane claimed by the official story, but have yet to see any hard evidence to rightly refute the story either. That was the problem with the CBC program, it wasted a lot of time on some guy claiming the Pentagon was blown up from within yet showed now evidence to support the claim, and they also wasted a lot of time with some fool claiming to have proven all the phone calls from the planes were faked and all sorts of other nonsense he didn't even come close to proving. That said, at least the didn't pull in the nutjobs who think the videos of planes hitting the towers are faked and that the towers we destroyed by satellite based directed energy weapons.

On the plus side, the did let Richard Gage lay out the facts which disprove the official story in regard to the WTC buildings, and showed plenty off footage of the buildings coming down which will drive the point home to anyone with a decent head on their shoulders. However, in the long run the CBC program was just another hit peace, much like the JFK documentaries where they show the film which proves the fatal bullet came from the front, yet fill the program with so much other nonsense speculation and refutations which mislead people into believing the official story of Oswald having taken the fatal shot from behind.

Anyway, someone uploaded it to YouTube, and you can find all the videos along with a good range of commentary on the program here.

Aside from Mackey being a wise acre but probably a frustrated nice guy at heart tired of dealing with folks who 'just don't get it'...
Mackey doesn't get it, and is frustrated by his own cognitive dissonance. I ran into him over at JREF forums, where he contested me with one ridiculous argument after another. It ended with when I pointed out the fact that he was making the argument of claiming the buildings came down without the use of explosives while also claiming it would have taken far too much explosives to bring the building down, the same false dichotomy argument I called TLC on here earlier. In response he deflected by falsely accusing me of not understanding calculus in regard to another part of the discussion to claim I wasn't worth his time, putting me on his ignore list. I've see many people accuse Mackey of being intentionally deceptive, but I rather figure he is just too wrapped up in himself to maintain a reasonable grasp of reality.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
He's been nominated by TWO mentally challenged people. That hardly counts. Especially since there's little (see: none) ownage happening TO him. Keep on truckin, though.

Only twuther would stand up for Kylebisme.
His name is being mentioned quite often in these forums. People think he is a retard.
You believe in the same shit he does. Guess what that makes you?
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
much like the JFK documentaries where they show the film which proves the fatal bullet came from the front, yet fill the program with so much other nonsense speculation and refutations which mislead people into believing the official story of Oswald having taken the fatal shot from behind.

Unbelievable.

Have you ever heard a conspiracy you could not believe in?

Good luck with your ownage of the year nomination.

You have my vote.
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,213
6
81
I missed it, but where is freefall proven? If you would be so kind as to provide the video used I would appreciate it.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
lmao at believing the JFK conspiracy theory. This thread just keeps on getting better and better and is definitely AT thread ownage of the year material.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Have you ever heard a conspiracy you could not believe in?
Far more than I could be expected to recount here. I don't even believe any particular conspiracy theory in regard to the murder of JFK, but I know for a fact the fatal shot didn't come from anywhere close to the direction which Oswald is claimed to have been, as I've seen the film footage which proves as much. By far most Americans have come to terms with the fact that Oswald did not act alone, though I can't say I'm surprised that you and Frist are among one in ten still clinging to the official myth of that, morons that you are.

I missed it, but where is freefall proven? If you would be so kind as to provide the video used I would appreciate it.
It's proven by every video which shows the roofline as it comes down, but if' you are asking which video NIST used to confirm the period of free fall, that is the first clip shown in this video which which I linked in the OP. If you want to see an actual video analysis of the rate of fall, you can view one of those here.
 
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