what computer certifications do you have?

[Juno]

Originally posted by: Rock Hydra
I to A+, Nef+ and Postcount+

:thumbsup:

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Ameesh
none, i have a degree in computer science, its all you need

LOL

If we both interview for a job and I have 10+ years experience and you're fresh out of college just with a degree, you aren't getting that job. I've already proven that I can perform that task, while you're still unproven.

I suspect you're not competing for the same kinds of jobs.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Ameesh
none, i have a degree in computer science, its all you need

LOL

If we both interview for a job and I have 10+ years experience and you're fresh out of college just with a degree, you aren't getting that job. I've already proven that I can perform that task, while you're still unproven.

Uh, Ameesh has Microsft and Amazon.com on his resume, who do you have?

Uh (mouthbreather), I already stated it above.

Thanks, I'm sure we'll both be better informed if you act insulting.

 

[gar3555]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: jewno

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Ameesh
none, i have a degree in computer science, its all you need

LOL

If we both interview for a job and I have 10+ years experience and you're fresh out of college just with a degree, you aren't getting that job. I've already proven that I can perform that task, while you're still unproven.

it doesn't matter.

with a college degree = better pay.

Nope.

On average, yes, but I've always been well above average (consistently scored in the top 2% nationwide)

Experience + more personal ability will take you much further than degree + less personal ability.

College grads are a dime a dozen nowadays. There are nobody special. The cost of admission is so low, and ANYONE can get a degree. You don't have to be especially intelligent to get a degree, so college no longer separates the smart from the dumb.

lets say I have 30+ years in the business, with great prev employers/patents, and no degree at all, I think could get pretty much any job I wanted over you...

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Not to drag this into another "are certs worth it thread", but I took your stance 5 years ago. Not any more. There simply are so many IT people looking for jobs right now that there is a huge supply of people, but not of jobs. Certs are a quick and easy way to sort out people.

If you have two people with 5 years of equal experience and one has technical certs, and one doesn't. The one who doesn't isn't going to get the interview..

I have enough experience that I'm already ahead of the curve. Most of the consulting agencies know me, as I've taken jobs with them. I don't just have dinky little mom&pop stores on my resume, I've worked for companies that have pretty strict requirements such as IBM, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Johnson&Johnson, Peco Energy (Excelon), Siemens, Aramark, etc.

I don't have any problems getting jobs.

Yeh we can name drop all we want. I can put John Deere, Mckesson, and Krispy Kreme on my resume with 7 years of full time IT experience and it still isn't enough to get interviews. Unless you have a very good social network that you can use, you have to do everything you can to differentiate yourself from the 500 other people that are applying for a position.

I moved to a new city that I have no social network or connections in. Even with the names and the experience I have on my resume, it isn't enough.

 

[Horus]

Working on A+ (Core and OS) and MCSE Windows XP...while working towards my B.A(Honours) in History/Classics

 

[MetalMat]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: jewno

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Ameesh
none, i have a degree in computer science, its all you need

LOL

If we both interview for a job and I have 10+ years experience and you're fresh out of college just with a degree, you aren't getting that job. I've already proven that I can perform that task, while you're still unproven.

it doesn't matter.

with a college degree = better pay.

Nope.

On average, yes, but I've always been well above average (consistently scored in the top 2% nationwide)

Experience + more personal ability will take you much further than degree + less personal ability. (case in point, the richest man in the world has no degree but a lot of personal ability.)

College grads are a dime a dozen nowadays. There are nobody special. The cost of admission is so low, and ANYONE can get a degree. You don't have to be especially intelligent to get a degree, so college no longer separates the smart from the dumb.

Maybe they are more common nowadays, but it shows that you can put up with 4 years of bs. Besides, some jobs you have to have a degree to get. Sure you could gamble by just working hard and not getting a degree, but I earned my degree and plan on doing something with it.

 

[gar3555]

Originally posted by: Horus
Working on A+ (Core and OS) and MCSE Windows XP...while working towards my B.A(Honours) in History/Classics

interesting combo history and computers

 

[Imdmn04]

Certs don't mean shiat in front of degrees, they are more of a compliment to a degree when you have graduated long ago and you need to update yourself to the new stuff.

Someone taking some course over a couple of weeks is not gonna be a better canadiate thanb someone who dedicated 4 years of his life to the subject.

 

[wbresson]

eh Hi

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Armitage

I suspect you're not competing for the same kinds of jobs.

I don't know what he does, so you could be right.

But let me tell you what I do know. Take a look at the largest computer corporations in the world. To be a good *employee*, college helps. But the head honcho calling the shots is usually a person of superior intellect, whether they went to college or not. At Microsoft you have Bill Gates, at Apple you have Steve Jobs, at Dell you have Michael Dell, at Oracle you have Larry Ellison, etc.

So I guess if your goal is to be a good subordinate, college is the way to go. Personally, I don't get much satisfaction working for someone else, and I'm only working at IBM until I can get my own business off the ground.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
Certs don't mean shiat in front of degrees, they are more of a compliment to a degree when you have graduated long ago and you need to update yourself to the new stuff.

Someone taking some course over a couple of weeks is not gonna be a better canadiate thanb someone who dedicated 4 years of his life to the subject.

Depends completely on the job.

I'd rather have a person with 4 years of hands on experience and an MCSE designation under their belt managing my network than a kid right out of college with a crispy B.S. in MIS and zero experience.

 

[gar3555]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Armitage

I suspect you're not competing for the same kinds of jobs.

I don't know what he does, so you could be right.

But let me tell you what I do know. Take a look at the largest computer corporations in the world. To be a good *employee*, college helps. But the head honcho calling the shots is usually a person of superior intellect, whether they went to college or not. At Microsoft you have Bill Gates, at Apple you have Steve Jobs, at Dell you have Michael Dell, at Oracle you have Larry Ellison, etc.

So I guess if your goal is to be a good subordinate, college is the way to go. Personally, I don't get much satisfaction working for someone else, and I'm only working at IBM until I can get my own business off the ground.

you know, college doesn't "train you to be a good subordinate" anyone w/ enought capitol and can start a business

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: jewno

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Ameesh
none, i have a degree in computer science, its all you need

LOL

If we both interview for a job and I have 10+ years experience and you're fresh out of college just with a degree, you aren't getting that job. I've already proven that I can perform that task, while you're still unproven.

it doesn't matter.

with a college degree = better pay.

Nope.

On average, yes, but I've always been well above average (consistently scored in the top 2% nationwide)

Experience + more personal ability will take you much further than degree + less personal ability. (case in point, the richest man in the world has no degree but a lot of personal ability.)

College grads are a dime a dozen nowadays. There are nobody special. The cost of admission is so low, and ANYONE can get a degree. You don't have to be especially intelligent to get a degree, so college no longer separates the smart from the dumb.

If ANYONE could get a degree, everyone would have one. Apparently you aren't ANYONE since you don't have one? Or, maybe you just figure you're better off without a degree?

Yeah, the cost of admission to college is low. The amount of work and dedication required to actually graduate from college is still fairly high. Barely a quarter of Americans have college degrees. I'm pretty sure that more than 1/4 of Americans would like to have college degrees.

So what's stopping these people from getting degrees? Something is certainly doing it. Not ANYBODY gets a degree just because they want it, they have to put out the effort.

College has never separated the smart from the dumb. College separates the dedicated from the lazy.

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
Certs don't mean shiat in front of degrees, they are more of a compliment to a degree when you have graduated long ago and you need to update yourself to the new stuff.

Someone taking some course over a couple of weeks is not gonna be a better canadiate thanb someone who dedicated 4 years of his life to the subject.

Depends completely on the job.

I'd rather have a person with 4 years of hands on experience and an MCSE designation under their belt managing my network than a kid right out of college with a crispy B.S. in MIS and zero experience.

Why does everybody automcatically assume someone has a degree has no experience?

a person with a degree+exp but no cert
will be >
a person with no degree +exp +cert

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
I didn't bother. Actually I did get the CCNA, but I found that certs mean squat once you have experience. The jobs I work at require certs that I don't have, yet I have no problem working there. I'm a server guy for IBM now.

I think certs mean more when you don't have much experience.

"Do you have an elevator mechanic certification?"
"No, but I've been doing it for 20 years"
"When can you start?"

not in IT anyway.. do a search on DICE.. alot of companies especially Microsoft partners are requiring at least 1 MCP and usually A+ for entry level IT jobs.. and I dont know any Admins for any large company that dont have an MCSE...

new applicants to my company MUST hold at least 1 cert..
and you are expected to better yourself the whole time you are employeed with this company..
they expect at least 1 cert per year.
or college classes

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Ameesh
none, i have a degree in computer science, its all you need

LOL

If we both interview for a job and I have 10+ years experience and you're fresh out of college just with a degree, you aren't getting that job. I've already proven that I can perform that task, while you're still unproven.

yup and the guy with that 10 years exp the degree AND the certs is gonna get the job...

 

[pravi333]

IBM e(logo)server Certified Specialist - pSeries Administration and Support for AIX 5L V5.2

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Armitage

I suspect you're not competing for the same kinds of jobs.

I don't know what he does, so you could be right.

But let me tell you what I do know. Take a look at the largest computer corporations in the world. To be a good *employee*, college helps. But the head honcho calling the shots is usually a person of superior intellect, whether they went to college or not. At Microsoft you have Bill Gates, at Apple you have Steve Jobs, at Dell you have Michael Dell, at Oracle you have Larry Ellison, etc.

So I guess if your goal is to be a good subordinate, college is the way to go. Personally, I don't get much satisfaction working for someone else, and I'm only working at IBM until I can get my own business off the ground.

Bill Gates went to Harvard. Had he not gone there, there likely wouldn't have been a Microsoft, because that's where he met the co-founders of the company.

Steve Jobs went to Reed College. he credits a calligraphy class there as inspiring the high-quality text rendering that helped make the mac the choice of graphic artists.

Michael Dell went to the University of Texas as Austin. He started his computer business from his dormroom.

I can't find any info on Larry Ellison's education, but looking at the three men above, are you still going to imply that college is useless if you want to run a company?

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Armitage

I suspect you're not competing for the same kinds of jobs.

I don't know what he does, so you could be right.

But let me tell you what I do know. Take a look at the largest computer corporations in the world. To be a good *employee*, college helps. But the head honcho calling the shots is usually a person of superior intellect, whether they went to college or not. At Microsoft you have Bill Gates, at Apple you have Steve Jobs, at Dell you have Michael Dell, at Oracle you have Larry Ellison, etc.

So I guess if your goal is to be a good subordinate, college is the way to go. Personally, I don't get much satisfaction working for someone else, and I'm only working at IBM until I can get my own business off the ground.

Haha, I love how people always use Bill Gates and Steve Jobs as examples. For every one of them, there are a thousand that is not going anywhere without a degree. Yes, they have experience. Yes, they may have superior intellect. But with no degree you will face the glass ceiling with HR while climbing the coporate ladder.

So unless you think you are Bill Gates material, and is so confident that you will make it just like him without a degree. Then by all means continue ahead with your career with no degree. Otherwise, a degree is a safe bet, as most upper management of corporations has one, probably along with an MBA.

So carefully estimate your abilities and pick your poison.

 

[Jadow]

A+, Network+

I'm going to go for MCSA and CCNA eventually, don't have the motivation right now.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Ameesh
none, i have a degree in computer science, its all you need

Ditto. Except that I had a bunch of experience from volunteer projects that was the real key to employment.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Armitage

I suspect you're not competing for the same kinds of jobs.

I don't know what he does, so you could be right.

But let me tell you what I do know. Take a look at the largest computer corporations in the world. To be a good *employee*, college helps. But the head honcho calling the shots is usually a person of superior intellect, whether they went to college or not. At Microsoft you have Bill Gates, at Apple you have Steve Jobs, at Dell you have Michael Dell, at Oracle you have Larry Ellison, etc.

So I guess if your goal is to be a good subordinate, college is the way to go. Personally, I don't get much satisfaction working for someone else, and I'm only working at IBM until I can get my own business off the ground.

Bill Gates went to Harvard. Had he not gone there, there likely wouldn't have been a Microsoft, because that's where he met the co-founders of the company.

Steve Jobs went to Reed College. he credits a calligraphy class there as inspiring the high-quality text rendering that helped make the mac the choice of graphic artists.

Michael Dell went to the University of Texas as Austin. He started his computer business from his dormroom.

I can't find any info on Larry Ellison's education, but looking at the three men above, are you still going to imply that college is useless if you want to run a company?

Its still uneccessary specially in IT really..
by the time a course is written its mostly obsolete in the real world..
people that are already in the field have been here for years and years..
hell when I went to college Typewriters were still on desks..
PC whats a PC?
I learned 99% of what I know not from certs or college but hands on in the field..

now you pencil pushing geeks.... you guys need college... us tech nerds in the trenches... naw not so much..

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Armitage

I suspect you're not competing for the same kinds of jobs.

I don't know what he does, so you could be right.

But let me tell you what I do know. Take a look at the largest computer corporations in the world. To be a good *employee*, college helps. But the head honcho calling the shots is usually a person of superior intellect, whether they went to college or not. At Microsoft you have Bill Gates, at Apple you have Steve Jobs, at Dell you have Michael Dell, at Oracle you have Larry Ellison, etc.

So I guess if your goal is to be a good subordinate, college is the way to go. Personally, I don't get much satisfaction working for someone else, and I'm only working at IBM until I can get my own business off the ground.

I would argue that these people you name are extrodinary people who succeeded despite the lack of a college degree, not because of it. I think you'll find they are in the minority if you look at the overall class of CEOs of succesful companies.

Regardless, it's irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make. As I understand it, certifications are for jobs/careers as sysadmins, helpdesk, support etc. Now I don't have a CS degree or work in a primarily CS job - but it seems to me that these aren't the kinds of jobs somebody with a CS degree would have as their goal. They may end up in them, but I would guess that CS grads have a different focus - system/architecture design & development, algorithm development, research, etc. Kind of the difference between an automotive engineer and a mechanic.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Armitage

I suspect you're not competing for the same kinds of jobs.

I don't know what he does, so you could be right.

But let me tell you what I do know. Take a look at the largest computer corporations in the world. To be a good *employee*, college helps. But the head honcho calling the shots is usually a person of superior intellect, whether they went to college or not. At Microsoft you have Bill Gates, at Apple you have Steve Jobs, at Dell you have Michael Dell, at Oracle you have Larry Ellison, etc.

So I guess if your goal is to be a good subordinate, college is the way to go. Personally, I don't get much satisfaction working for someone else, and I'm only working at IBM until I can get my own business off the ground.

Bill Gates went to Harvard. Had he not gone there, there likely wouldn't have been a Microsoft, because that's where he met the co-founders of the company.

Steve Jobs went to Reed College. he credits a calligraphy class there as inspiring the high-quality text rendering that helped make the mac the choice of graphic artists.

Michael Dell went to the University of Texas as Austin. He started his computer business from his dormroom.

I can't find any info on Larry Ellison's education, but looking at the three men above, are you still going to imply that college is useless if you want to run a company?

Its still uneccessary specially in IT really..
by the time a course is written its mostly obsolete in the real world..
people that are already in the field have been here for years and years..
hell when I went to college Typewriters were still on desks..
PC whats a PC?
I learned 99% of what I know not from certs or college but hands on in the field..

now you pencil pushing geeks.... you guys need college... us tech nerds in the trenches... naw not so much..

I don't know what you're using as definitions for "IT" and "pencil pushing geek", but the things they teach in a computer science curriculum have been in use for decades.

Maybe your windows 2000 admin course is obsolete, but your data structures class that teaches you about red-black trees and hastables is still as useful as it ever was, and you aren't going to learn that material in an A+ or MCSE class.

I don't want to learn to administer windows, I want to create it.