What controls Turbo Core in Xeons?

[balnazzar]

Thanks @Micrornd for you feedback about Gigabyte business branch. Im thinking about the single-socketed 3647 board... I think I'll call and ask for the price, if it's within ~300 it can be a viable option.

Oh, and my MW30 runs dual 2696v3 @ 3.4ghz (all 36 real cores) with the bios mod and Windows 10 loading the microcode.

May I ask you how you manage to load the microcode with W10? Will W10 updates break or override it? Thanks!

 

[Micrornd]

Thanks @Micrornd for you feedback about Gigabyte business branch. Im thinking about the single-socketed 3647 board... I think I'll call and ask for the price, if it's within ~300 it can be a viable option.

Nope. $400 +/-
If you want top end, look at the C621 Aorus Xtreme, that thing just scares me and screams excess, benchmark toy.

C621 AORUS XTREME (rev. 1.0) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...

www.gigabyte.com

May I ask you how you manage to load the microcode with W10? Will W10 updates break or override it? Thanks!

1) The bios without microcode is flashed to the board.
2) Windows is installed in EFI/GPT mode.
3) Reboot and boot into the EFI shell.
4) The chosen EFI file (voltage offsets) is loaded to the EFI/BOOT directory of the boot drive as a selection. In my case I load 2 voltage offsets and give them different names/selections.
5) Reboot into bios and select the named EFI driver (voltage offset file) you want (it should be somewhere on your "boot" tab), then reboot.
6) Windows will load it's updated microcode automaticly, if you don't want it to then you must rename or delete the "Windows/System32/mcupdate_GenuineIntel.dll" file.
(I'm using the "43" microcode version as it gives the best performance for me. YMMV)
7) Windows updates can/may reinstall "mcupdate_GenuineIntel.dll", so if you don't want it to load, take the 10 seconds needed and check on it after Windows updates.
8) It sounds complicated, but once you have done the above, you just boot or reboot as you always did and everything happens normally and automatically.

For me, the difference between letting Windows load/update the microcode and not updating is about 50mhz (3.400ghz or 3.455ghz), but without the microcode loaded the CPUs don't throttle up and down properly, as they normally would, so you get higher temps on normal usage.
For me that means about steady 8-10c difference under normal usage and I'm on water.
Full load temps are the same though whether Windows loads the microcode or not.
With 36/72 cores, I can live with a 50mhz drop.

 

[Micrornd]

How much your dual 2696v3 score in cinebench R15 & R20 ?

5343 and 11420

 

[e97]

Hello. Got a E5-2678 v3 on a JINGSHA X99-8D3, to mod the BIOS for all core unlock - is it removing the microcode and adding the DXE https://github.com/freecableguy/v3x4

 

[Markfw]

5343 and 11420

A stock 2990wx with 32 cores scores over 13k in R20 vs your 36 OC;ed cores @ 11420. But not bad for old hardware.

 

[Micrornd]

A stock 2990wx with 32 cores scores over 13k in R20 vs your 36 OC;ed cores @ 11420. But not bad for old hardware.

And not great for 5 years newer new hardware.
Should be better.

 

[protator]

see my post above

Thank you, mek5.
For now I'll just hold on to those files for later use.
Right now my rig is more open air bench than workstation and I don't really trust the CoolerMaster AIOs I slapped onto the CPUs.
55 bucks per 240 AiO was cheap for a quick and conveniant solution but they're not gonna win any reliability award, that's for sure^^.
A full custom loop for the whole system is gonna take some time though. Can't keep spending on hardware porn or the missus is gonna delid My cpu^^.

 

[protator]

Thank you @serverpanda and @topmysteries5 for the information and advice you gave me.

I know that Ryzen 3000 are very capable cpus with an almost unbeatable price/performance ratio. They are not for me, though. Indeed, I'm building my next deep learning platform: I need more than 16 lanes (the bare minimum are 3 slots at 8x each for the GPUs, the taichi is good since its 16x/16x/8x layout), and 128gb of ram, preferably ECC.
But most of all, I need support for Intel MKL, which the amd cpus do lack. The best option for me would be a Xeon Gold/Platinum, for which I found many QS samples at good prices on ebay, with a core count between 16 and 22. However, I cannot manage to find a single-socket lga3647 board with enough 16x slots...

In my experience @topmysteries5, the Xeons E5 do consume way less power than their nominal TDP. My E5-2680v2 (10c/20t, 115W) tops at ~90W under prime95 at 3.1ghz (all cores). If I disable turbo, it drops to ~60/65W @2.8Ghz, measured with coretemp. I do expect however, that the actual power draw won't scale linearly with frequency. I do expect the -97v3 to scratch 200W when modded, which maybe will require liquid, or at least an air cooler so good it would cost almost as a liquid.
One option to stay cool would be the 2660v3. It has 10 cores with a base freq of 2.6 ghz. Max turbo 2.9Ghz on all cores, that would become 3.3 Ghz with the mod. Ten haswell cores at 3.3 won't be bad, and since the cpu has a TDP of 105W, I don't expect it to draw more than ~120W as modded. In any case, I'll be fine with the cooler I always use with 2011 processors, the CM Hyper 412R (20$).

The next option would be the 2690v3 (12C, 2.6,3.1,3.6 respectively base, turbo on al cores, turbo modded). It's a 135W cpu, I dunno if I'll be ok with the air cooler.

My "new" system is a Asus Z10PE-D8 WS with two 2690v3 and 8 sticks of standard 16gig 2133 cl15 samsung ecc.
Got actual retail cpus for 180 from ebay and even with the expensive board and the higher price for the ecc ram this is - for my use case - a lot more perf/$ than a Ryzen 3000 build or a used TR.
80 Lanes make a huge difference. I was able to hook six 8x pci-e nvmes to the cpus and still had a 16/16 slot left for the gpu. (the heat those drives produce is scary though^^)

Stock a 2690v3 runs a lot cooler than the 135w tdp would let you believe. Without OC a Noctua tower cooler works great.
Anything above stock turbo frequencies and they get really toasty, though. Just increasing bclk to 105 for 3100>3250MHz got my 2693 (which is just a 2690 with increased base freq) to 95°C in Prime. With a D15 and fresh liquid metal paste.
In comparison, same chip with Cheapo 240mm AiO: 65°C with noctua s12 fans at 500rpm. Cool and dead silent.
If you got a 26xxV3 for a bargain and want to use it for a budget build (allround-pc/"gaming-workstation") aircooling is probably fine even with oc because of the lower average load and shorter load spikes, so heat should be somewhat manageable.
But if you intend to have an oc'd xeon do serious work then water is your only option.

Just for reference: The 2693v3 has merely 200MHz more base clock than the 2690v3, max boost clocks of 3100/3500MHz are identical, yet that's enough for it to be rated at 165W tdp instead of 135. Stock.
With Intels homebrew definition for TDP a highly overclocked 2697v3 would be closer to 300W than your estimated 200.
Regardless of the actual real world heat-output, trying to air-cool something like that would be a waste of time. Unless noise is not an issue ... then a pair of 10000rpm server fans on a D15 or DR4 Pro might do the trick.
Prepare for 75dbA^^.

 

[topmysteries5]

My "new" system is a Asus Z10PE-D8 WS with two 2690v3 and 8 sticks of standard 16gig 2133 cl15 samsung ecc.
Got actual retail cpus for 180 from ebay and even with the expensive board and the higher price for the ecc ram this is - for my use case - a lot more perf/$ than a Ryzen 3000 build or a used TR.
80 Lanes make a huge difference. I was able to hook six 8x pci-e nvmes to the cpus and still had a 16/16 slot left for the gpu. (the heat those drives produce is scary though^^)

Stock a 2690v3 runs a lot cooler than the 135w tdp would let you believe. Without OC a Noctua tower cooler works great.
Anything above stock turbo frequencies and they get really toasty, though. Just increasing bclk to 105 for 3100>3250MHz got my 2693 (which is just a 2690 with increased base freq) to 95°C in Prime. With a D15 and fresh liquid metal paste.
In comparison, same chip with Cheapo 240mm AiO: 65°C with noctua s12 fans at 500rpm. Cool and dead silent.
If you got a 26xxV3 for a bargain and want to use it for a budget build (allround-pc/"gaming-workstation") aircooling is probably fine even with oc because of the lower average load and shorter load spikes, so heat should be somewhat manageable.
But if you intend to have an oc'd xeon do serious work then water is your only option.

Just for reference: The 2693v3 has merely 200MHz more base clock than the 2690v3, max boost clocks of 3100/3500MHz are identical, yet that's enough for it to be rated at 165W tdp instead of 135. Stock.
With Intels homebrew definition for TDP a highly overclocked 2697v3 would be closer to 300W than your estimated 200.
Regardless of the actual real world heat-output, trying to air-cool something like that would be a waste of time. Unless noise is not an issue ... then a pair of 10000rpm server fans on a D15 or DR4 Pro might do the trick.
Prepare for 75dbA^^.

Try to set "Power Phase Response" to "Ultra Fast" and set voltage capability to 140% and CPU LLC to level 9 in BIOS of your Z10PE-D8 WS. With this i get stable x31 multiplier on all cores of both E5 2686v3 on my D16 WS motherboard. Also x27~x29 for Avx2 load. But above BIOS settings increases power draw by 100~150w, making total consumption in ~600w range.

 

[yashakalaka]

Hi Everyone, I have an E5- 2683 v3 retail and an Asrock Extreme4 X99. I was reading instructions on page 3 by @someEEguy and almost went through with it, but before I do, Is that method still valid? I don't want to end up using outdated files and mess something up. Anything I need to know? Any new tips and tricks?

So far, I used UBU v1.65 and modded X99EX43.60 bios file as per instructions on that page. Before flashing my bios and going through with it, I wanna check in here and see if there is anything I need to be aware of since the instructions are almost 3 years old now.

 

[balnazzar]

Hello. Got a E5-2678 v3 on a JINGSHA X99-8D3, to mod the BIOS for all core unlock - is it removing the microcode and adding the DXE https://github.com/freecableguy/v3x4

Hi @e97. I spotted that Jingsha thing on ebay, but thought it was some cheapo H61 disguised as X99, since it says "DDR3"... It seems rather to be the real deal? Does X99 support DDR3 as well?? Can you report some impression about that board? It's really cheap, if it's stable I think I'll buy it.
Thanks!

 

[topmysteries5]

Hi @e97. I spotted that Jingsha thing on ebay, but thought it was some cheapo H61 disguised as X99, since it says "DDR3"... It seems rather to be the real deal? Does X99 support DDR3 as well?? Can you report some impression about that board? It's really cheap, if it's stable I think I'll buy it.
Thanks!

Not sure about that eBay motherboard, but Huanan X99 motherboard from aliexpress has genuine X99 chipset. Yes X99 supports DDR3 also with quad channel but limited to 1866mhz. They also have similar motherboard with DDR4 slot.
I have 2 huanan X79 delux motherboard from 2017, and none have failed yet. These are used as render slave for 10-15 hours daily with 2690v2.

 

[balnazzar]

Thanks @topmysteries5, good to know.. I think I'll give those chinese mbs a try..

 

[Peaches182]

Hi punks !

Any one here got the bios without microcode for a nice Z10PE-D8 WS ?

Cheers !

 

[Djordjemasinac]

@topmysteries5 Is there any way to mod these Huanan x99 boards with undervoltage? Could you do such a thing?

 

[topmysteries5]

@topmysteries5 Is there any way to mod these Huanan x99 boards with undervoltage? Could you do such a thing?

Hi, i have never tried this mod on Huanan X99, though it should work, it may or may not sustain higher boost clock for longer time.. I can mod its BIOS, if you provide me its link. Also you must know how to flash BIOS on these motherboards, I'm sure there will be different procedure to flash. Also let me know which CPU you're using.

 

[Peaches182]

Hi,
you can download newest moded bios for ASUS Z10PE-D8 WS here:

Z10PE-D8-WS-ASUS-4001.CAP and 2 more files

3 files sent via WeTransfer, the simplest way to send your files around the world

we.tl

Contents:
Z10PE-D8-WS-ASUS-4001.CAP // original BIOS file from ASUS
Z10PE-D8-WS-ASUS-4001_MOD.ROM // moded BIOS w/o microcodes
v3x2_60-50-50_microcode_39_vcc1.8.efi // efi driver that works stable for me (24/7 for few months - used with BIOS 3407 before)

Unfortunately you need to use AFUWIN64_v3.05.04 to flash ROM bios (older version that allows to use /GAN command). The trick is to flash with proper BIOS first:

afuwinx64.exe <NAME OF THE ORIGINAL BIOS>.CAP

and then flash with moded (without restarting):

afuwinx64.exe <NAME OF THE MODDED BIOS>.ROM /GAN

After restart you will have new BIOS without microcode. Apply any efi driver that suits your platform.

PS. if anyone know, how to change moded ROM to CAP let me know (to use with ezflash/flashback or ASUS Update).

CINEBENCH R15 score for DUAL E5-2686v3 and 103.5BCLK is 4860 points. With 105.0BCLK it's over 5000. Turbo for all cores is 3100 but with other efi driver I can achieve 3200-3300.

Too bad the share is no longer online. :-/

 

[Djordjemasinac]

Hi, i have never tried this mod on Huanan X99, though it should work, it may or may not sustain higher boost clock for longer time.. I can mod its BIOS, if you provide me its link. Also you must know how to flash BIOS on these motherboards, I'm sure there will be different procedure to flash. Also let me know which CPU you're using.

I am probably going to get an X99-AD3 Huanan board, so i will probably need the undervolt bios mods for it. If you could do them now or when i actually get some x99/x79 combo, i'd be very thankful. If i get the X99-AD3 i will use it with an e5 2678v3, and quad channel ddr3 at 2133 or higher.

 

[topmysteries5]

I am probably going to get an X99-AD3 Huanan board, so i will probably need the undervolt bios mods for it. If you could do them now or when i actually get some x99/x79 combo, i'd be very thankful. If i get the X99-AD3 i will use it with an e5 2678v3, and quad channel ddr3 at 2133 or higher.

I would recommend you to get motherboard with DDR4 slots, so you can run 2133mhz quad channel. With DDR3 you will be limited to 1866mhz. V3 xeons cant run memory at even 2400 or 3000mhz, whatever memory you use, it will be downclocked to 2133mhz.

 

[Djordjemasinac]

I would recommend you to get motherboard with DDR4 slots, so you can run 2133mhz quad channel. With DDR3 you will be limited to 1866mhz. V3 xeons cant run memory at even 2400 or 3000mhz, whatever memory you use, it will be downclocked to 2133mhz.

I am going for cost-effectiveness here so even 1866Mhz is fine. DDR3 combos from aliexpress are far better in terms of price/performance. Can i contact you when i have the board i need the bios mod for? Also, where do i learn more myself about bios modding?

 

[Peaches182]

I am going for cost-effectiveness here so even 1866Mhz is fine. DDR3 combos from aliexpress are far better in terms of price/performance. Can i contact you when i have the board i need the bios mod for? Also, where do i learn more myself about bios modding?

Well in terms of BW the difference between DDR3 1866 and ddr4 2133 is not impressive, if both can be used in quad channel, DDR3 could even be better if you can adjust the timings to get them tight...but I am not sure how good these Xeons can handle the DDR3 low latency anyway.

I'd rather stay on DDR4 where you could easily find references etc.

 

[topmysteries5]

Well in terms of BW the difference between DDR3 1866 and ddr4 2133 is not impressive, if both can be used in quad channel, DDR3 could even be better if you can adjust the timings to get them tight...but I am not sure how good these Xeons can handle the DDR3 low latency anyway.

I'd rather stay on DDR4 where you could easily find references etc.

Sadly there are no options to adjust memory timing on these motherboards. Also no overclocking features of any kind. For DDR4, it will use C15/C16 for 2133mhz.

 

[Peaches182]

Sadly there are no options to adjust memory timing on these motherboards. Also no overclocking features of any kind. For DDR4, it will use C15/C16 for 2133mhz.

In that case go for a second had maiboard in DDR4, at the moment DDR4 is quite cheap and at least you know that you will be able to adjust the settings in the bios and not only for the RAM but also C-states.... which in pretty important if you want to avoid nasty blue screens.

[EDIT] I prefer a well established second hand mainboard to a nasty cheap chines mainboard.

 

[Djordjemasinac]

@topmysteries5 Actually, there is no need for a bios mod for undervolting, it already has it according to what i have seen online. I just wonder if it works with your all core turbo boost mod. What do you think of the X99-TF Huanan board and could you mod that one to support one core boost on all cores?

 

[topmysteries5]

@topmysteries5 Actually, there is no need for a bios mod for undervolting, it already has it according to what i have seen online. I just wonder if it works with your all core turbo boost mod. What do you think of the X99-TF Huanan board and could you mod that one to support one core boost on all cores?

Its BIOS can be modded for turbo mod as its X99. But you'll have to link its BIOS file here, so i can mod it. Also you will have to find a way to flash modded BIOS on it.