What did we do right to create a great middle class and what did we do wrong to destroy it?

[HomerJS]

What are your thoughts on how we created a great middle class and how we managed to tear it down. Republicans and Democrats have ideas on how to bring back the middle class. Can we learn frm history. Can those factors be applied today?

60 Years of American Economic History, Told in 1 Graph

We built the world's greatest middle class economy, then unbuilt it.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

We had a job market for the middle class.

Now we are nothing but a services based economy... So anyone who has skills related to "building and doing stuff" are pretty much screwed.

I think we could very well still have a middle-class. Hell, I just paid a plumber a few grand to do things around my house. No one wants to learn those skills though for whatever reason.

 

[pmv]

You emerged largely-undamaged from a war that destroyed all your economic competitors?

Not saying that's 'the' answer. I don't really know. It must be part of it, though. Those are dramatic bar charts.

 

[mdram]

we conviced people they had to go to college and get a degree in basket weaving instead of learning a good trade

 

[Muse]

We made it too easy for the rich to get richer (effectively picking the pockets of the middle class).

 

[UNCjigga]

What did we do right to create a great middle class?

The New Deal and winning World War 2, empowering the greatest generation to be leaders of the free world.

What did we do wrong to destroy it?

Vietnam, Nixon and Reagan

Vietnam is what screwed the Boomer generation, Nixon helped sow the seeds for the great partisan divisions we see today, and Reagan ensured that only the richest of the rich should see any government benefits (mainly low taxes) while the poors stayed poor and received fewer gov services to help lift them out of poverty (bootstraps bitches!)

 

[K1052]

You emerged largely-undamaged from a war that destroyed all your economic competitors?

Not saying that's 'the' answer. I don't really know. It must be part of it, though. Those are dramatic bar charts.

Also with the largest industrial base the world had ever seen to that point. Also domestically the baby boom took off and demand exploded.

The last several decades have seen major inroads in mechanization. Even putting automation aside you can do the work that took 100 people 50 years ago with maybe a dozen in a lot of heavy industries now and still increase output.

 

[Oyeve]

What did we do right to create a great middle class?

The New Deal and winning World War 2, empowering the greatest generation to be leaders of the free world.

What did we do wrong to destroy it?

Vietnam, Nixon and Reagan

Vietnam is what screwed the Boomer generation, Nixon helped sow the seeds for the great partisan divisions we see today, and Reagan ensured that only the richest of the rich should see any government benefits (mainly low taxes) while the poors stayed poor and received fewer gov services to help lift them out of poverty (bootstraps bitches!)

Pretty spot on.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

we conviced people they had to go to college and get a degree in basket weaving instead of learning a good trade

And when the market is flooded for "a good trade" as much as anything else? Humans are becoming redundant at an ever-increasing rate and even Asians sweatshops could be replaced by a machine along with CEOs.

It's mainly a product of hoarding wealth by the powerful while opportunity, real opportunity not "McJobs" diminishes.

I have no answer based on a capitalistic consumerist society.

 

[Jhhnn]

We made it too easy for the rich to get richer (effectively picking the pockets of the middle class).

We bought in to the bullshit of trickle down Reaganomics & have been taking a beating in top down class warfare ever since.

Three people now have greater wealth than the lower 50% of the population.

Bernie Sanders: Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffett have more wealth than bottom half of U.S. | PolitiFact Wisconsin

 

[pmv]

we conviced people they had to go to college and get a degree in basket weaving instead of learning a good trade

Desperately needs more data. For example, what _is_ a 'good trade' and has potential employment in those fields remained strong?

Here, for example, there was a shortage of plumbers and tradespeople, to the point where very middle class professional types started retraining as plumbers...but then lots of well-trained Eastern Europeans arrived. The Poles had the advantage of an education system (created by communists, as it happens, who, on account of being very left-wing, had a rather conservative and traditional attitude to education) that still trained people in those fields. British companies have for a long time been very short-termist and very reluctant to train people in anything.

There are some fields that are both hard to automate and hard to export, plumbing would seem to be the quintessential example. But how much scope is there for well-paid jobs for all as plumbers? Especially when at any moment the border might be opened to a country with lots of unemployed skilled workers (Poland had very high unemployment before A8). There are a finite number of houses in the country.

But it's also the case that British people aspired to something more 'creative' and less dirty than plumbing. There are questions of status involved as well. Competition from East Europeans might be greatly overblown as an explanation. I honestly haven't a clue where the balance is. I only have anecdotes to go on (e.g. a neighbour who was a plumber - and getting on a bit - and claimed he could no longer get work so easily once all these much-younger Polish plumbers turned up). But I just wouldn't know what to advise someone to train in, to get job security and a decent income. Everything keeps changing.

And while it's true that universities now offer degrees in things I feel very tempted to be sniffy about ('media studies' 'golf course management'...pah...everything that isn't physics or maths you should probably teach yourself in your own time) it's also true that some of our most profitable exports involve teenage wizards, fictional secret agents and pop music.

Edit - I mean, once-upon-a-time basket-weaving _was_ a good trade.

 

[mdram]

Desperately needs more data. For example, what _is_ a 'good trade' and has potential employment in those fields remained strong?

Here, for example, there was a shortage of plumbers and tradespeople, to the point where very middle class professional types started retraining as plumbers...but then lots of well-trained Eastern Europeans arrived. The Poles had the advantage of an education system (created by communists, as it happens, who, on account of being very left-wing, had a rather conservative and traditional attitude to education) that still trained people in those fields. British companies have for a long time been very short-termist and very reluctant to train people in anything.

There are some fields that are both hard to automate and hard to export, plumbing would seem to be the quintessential example. But how much scope is there for well-paid jobs for all as plumbers? Especially when at any moment the border might be opened to a country with lots of unemployed skilled workers (Poland had very high unemployment before A8). There are a finite number of houses in the country.

But it's also the case that British people aspired to something more 'creative' and less dirty than plumbing. There are questions of status involved as well. Competition from East Europeans might be greatly overblown as an explanation. I honestly haven't a clue where the balance is. I only have anecdotes to go on (e.g. a neighbour who was a plumber - and getting on a bit - and claimed he could no longer get work so easily once all these much-younger Polish plumbers turned up). But I just wouldn't know what to advise someone to train in, to get job security and a decent income. Everything keeps changing.

And while it's true that universities now offer degrees in things I feel very tempted to be sniffy about ('media studies' 'golf course management'...pah...everything that isn't physics or maths you should probably teach yourself in your own time) it's also true that some of our most profitable exports involve teenage wizards, fictional secret agents and pop music.

Edit - I mean, once-upon-a-time basket-weaving _was_ a good trade.

welders, machinist, mechanic, ect ect

 

[Muse]

We bought in to the bullshit of trickle down Reaganomics & have been taking a beating in top down class warfare ever since.

Three people now have greater wealth than the lower 50% of the population.

Bernie Sanders: Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffett have more wealth than bottom half of U.S. | PolitiFact Wisconsin

Reagan, another media "star" who decided to try his hand at winning public office. I hated him from the start as gov of CA. He played to public sentiment and didn't give a shit about the truth. Sounds like the current POTUS, who's even worse. Reagan had been, what? President of the Screen Actor's Guild before running for governor. Trump just jumped right into the presidential race and ran rough shod over everybody and people didn't care. Does that man have compassion for anybody? I can't detect any. And I have to think his base are very deluded people.

 

[hal2kilo]

What are your thoughts on how we created a great middle class and how we managed to tear it down. Republicans and Democrats have ideas on how to bring back the middle class. Can we learn frm history. Can those factors be applied today?

60 Years of American Economic History, Told in 1 Graph

We built the world's greatest middle class economy, then unbuilt it.

www.theatlantic.com

The idea that you are useless if you don't have a college degree, the denigration of unions, and the accompanying disrespect for people who work with their hands.

 

[nakedfrog]

The idea that you are useless if you don't have a college degree, the denigration of unions, and the accompanying disrespect for people who work with their hands.

And somehow also we have a large wave of anti-intellectualism at the same time.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Affordable housing was a big factor.

 

[rommelrommel]

And when the market is flooded for "a good trade" as much as anything else? Humans are becoming redundant at an ever-increasing rate and even Asians sweatshops could be replaced by a machine along with CEOs.

It's mainly a product of hoarding wealth by the powerful while opportunity, real opportunity not "McJobs" diminishes.

I have no answer based on a capitalistic consumerist society.

Yeah, even if all the "right" choices had been made in the past it would have simply delayed the effects of automation and human redundancy.

 

[cytg111]

I have to post the American dream again.

Investing in education and social infrastructure results in innovation and the skilled labor it requires.
Make America Great Again? Do that.

And then we have to open up a new frontier : Space.

 

[Luna1968]

You emerged largely-undamaged from a war that destroyed all your economic competitors?

Not saying that's 'the' answer. I don't really know. It must be part of it, though. Those are dramatic bar charts.

that was a significant factor. we helped rebuild a world blown to shit. all of our stuff worked

 

[pmv]

And somehow also we have a large wave of anti-intellectualism at the same time.

The common factor seems to be that nobody likes, trusts or respects anybody who isn't just like them.

 

[rommelrommel]

The common factor seems to be that nobody likes, trusts or respects anybody who isn't just like them.

It's to the point where people are made when they get what they want (politically) if it came from the wrong team.

I think human brains in general just can't cope with the amount of change the last 100 years or so have brought.

 

[ivwshane]

What did we do? We invested in America, infrastructure, housing, schools, and innovation and not just small projects but really big ones. When you think big and go big you get big results, when you think small and go small you get equally small results. Ever heard of the phrase; you get what you put in? That applies to government. You put smart people in charge of creating policy you get good policies. Its why Republicans only come up with stupid policies, they are thought up by stupid people.

So what did we do wrong? The same thing every fallen society does; over invest in the military and ensure the rich maintain or gain power and money. A budget with a significant focus on military spending sucks out not only money out of other better policies but it also drains talent and cheaper labor as well as hamper spending at the micro level. Policies that help ensure the wealth is kept in the hands of the few means those big projects we did that grew the middle class are no longer a focus let alone an option.


The point of the US government is to provide for the general welfare of its citizens. How does investing crazy amounts of money into our military to fight wars and conflicts that were never a threat to us helping with the general welfare of this country? How does creating policies that concentrate wealth and protect corporations help the citizens of this country? They don't.

 

[SMOGZINN]

As you can see there was many thing that all came together to create a golden age for America. But that is now past, doing what we did then won't work again, because that was a tsunami of circumstances that all came together in the right place and time to build a middle class. We need to look to the new challenges that we face and solve them.
Those are going to mostly be finding an answer to the questions of what do you base an economy on when work no longer holds much value, and how do we balance consumerism with a growing need for conservationism. One of the things that helped us grow in the past was a complete disregard for the damage we were doing to anything and anyone that got in the way of profit. We can no longer afford that, so we need some type of new economy that can balance production with the environment and does not rely on labor to produce wealth.

 

[brycejones]

Improvements in productivity were reflected in employee wages increasing their disposable income. Now these improvements are completely consumed by share holders leading to stagnating wages and reduced purchasing power over time.

 

[dainthomas]

For the second part: reduced corporate and top marginal tax rates. Upper class no longer had to pay workers well or give out large bonuses to reduce their tax burden. Boom, flat wage growth.

What we did to create the middle class? The opposite of that.