Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ok first off, you ignore the fact that I am done bickering yet try to pin it on me. I don't care, I honestly don't, if they live that's great, if they die, that's their own fault and is of no consequence to me. Do you hold a daily vigil for everyone that is going to die that day? Do you think at some point of the day about all the people who died and weep for them? Of course you don't I'd be suprised if any sane person did, the fact is, is that American's just like everyone else on this planet are selfish, and we have no goal, no objective for being there.
I do not have to express physical sorrow in order to be disturbed by all the deaths that have occurred over there.
Using a rash generalization, that all Americans feel that way further discredits that argument.
That's what it was, and I still bet most American's don't care about Iraqi's and I'll stand by that, as I've said time and time gain. American's care about American pride, to think most care for the Iraqi's is delusional thinking.
And to think you dare try to insinuate that I am somehow insulting the troops by wanting them to leave, that is nothing but a republican talking point propagated on the FOX NEWS channel. I have military service men in my own family, it is an insult to keep them there, I have deep respect for those who put on the uniform, that's why I want them home out of harms way. I woulud be in the military right now if it wasn't for my medical condition which disqualifies me fom joining. Do you not think it is an insult for the troops themselves and the families of our troops to have to buy body armor because we don't have enough money or supplies to do it ourselves?
Don't say that I insulted you in anyway. As I have said a thousand times earlier in this thread, I hate death and destruction as much as you do. I am deeply sorry you have to have loved ones over there and I wish them the very best! (2 of my friends fathers are serving there right now...certainly not as close as family but I would prefer if you did not make me out to be some sort of detached, heartless person)
If I read what you were trying to say wrong, I am sorry, I was wrong, but to insinuate I am fine with it, as being an insult is wrong in itself. You have to ask yourself though, when does it end? It will never end because their country and culture is untenable.
By pulling out troops we have right now we are damning everything we have done over there. Everything the troops that died for will be gone in a matter of weeks. So basically their deaths will be in vain because by withdrawing we will have undone what they sacrificed to do.
Vietnam was the same, we have to swallow our pride, this war is unwinable, you can't win the WoT because terrorism itself is a tatic, an idea, a way to instill an idealogy, you can't defeat an idea or idealogy. We can supress it however, and the terrorists in Iraq will follow the U.S. wherever it goes, so let's move out of Iraq and finish up what we were doing in Afghanistan which I supported. Enough of this fake humanitarianism, and nationbuilding crap. If I appear heartless in any of this then so be it, I am just saying what many people I know fear to say.
I want the other soldiers home as much as everyone else does. Unfortunately, as I said earlier, by withdrawing our troops that have not died we:
A. Insult the memory of those who have already died
B. Condemn those people who are not insurgents in Iraq
C. Condemn all that we have worked for these past years
As for the last point, that is the media saying that. Do you have any evidence that the army cannot afford to equip and arm their soldiers??
Uhhh it's a well known fact many families have had to buy body armor for their loved ones in harms way. In fact I remember seeing a story on CNN.com I believe that said the Pentagon was voicing disapproval and sending out an official memo because of this. Mentioning reasoning like, it wasn't right the kind of body armor or something, it was awhile ago, however any body armor is better than no body armor at all.
f your former reasoning is how you feel then what do you have to say about the hundreds of thousands of civilian lives lost under the Bush Administration's handling of this war? OBL killed around 3,000 American's. This war has killed far more and they weren't even associated with the 9/11 attacks. Do you still feel this war was justified?
I am deeply saddened about the civilian casualties. But you most certainly cannot blame us for them. We are not over there purposely shooting civilians down in the streets.
Answer this: Are we over there with the direct order to shoot civilians?
No, but intent does not negate the fact that it happened. This war would have my support and most of the countries if it was somehow justified, but it isn't. What do you say to the man who lost his son because he was caught in a crossfire? A man whose country was invaded their sovereign leader deposed and his world turned upside down. And American's wonder why today we are so hated throughout the world. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and Bush is certainly going to his special little corner if hell does indeed exist.
(Even though you haven't given a counter point yet, I will just continue my argument for the sake of conciseness).
The insurgents, the extremists, the terrorists are the ones who are killing the innocent.
Do I think this war could have been handled better...absolutely I do. But I believe it was said in an article not too too long ago:
"Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people".
-Kevin