What did you think of the speech?

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: bobdelt
I still don't understand why any of you would rather forfeit than try to win. We arent losing, but we arent winning. Why quit in a tie.

I thought he spoke well and explained his reasonings quite well.

Bush "explain his reasonings well"? No. He never has and he never will. He's a complete idiot.
Let me explain it to you:

1. The war should not have taken place.

2. Military might is not going to change the equation.

3. There MUST be a diplomatic solution.

 

[mfs378]

That speech was so bad he must have written it himself.

 

[ProfJohn]

Can anyone tell me the Democrat plan for Iraq?

If we withdraw what is their plan if Iraq collapses into a non-nation like Somalia and becomes a terrorist hot bed, like Somalia?

Or what happens if this Shia-Sunni battle escalated with Jordan and Saudi Arabia on one side and Syria Iran on the other?

Outside of complain complain complain what, if any, plan do the Democrats have?

 

[umbrella39]

Bush is just one of those people who would rather see more dead Americans than admit he was wrong. Perhaps, the biggest ego evAr.

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: mc00
I bet million profjohn love the speech

I knew his plan was more bs. *shrug I just hope people in our country are more awake and notice some the bs came out of the man mouth.

I am not going to say I loved it. In fact I am getting tired of the speeches on what we are going to do in Iraq.

As many are saying this is his last chance to get it right.

A lot of people, generals, McCain etc are saying we are taking the right steps in this plan. That does not mean it will work though. Too many variables.

By the end of summer things have got to get better or else we have to start bringing the troops home, or getting them out of harms way.

BTW: Pelosi said we needed more troops two years ago, now she says we don?t need more troops. Both sides seem to have no clue what to do here.

That's because 2 years ago they may have helped! Now? No. It's over. We lost. Thanks to Bush and Cheney. Nice work!

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: bobdelt
I still don't understand why any of you would rather forfeit than try to win. We arent losing, but we arent winning. Why quit in a tie.

I thought he spoke well and explained his reasonings quite well.

Please offer up your own life then I will listen to you. This is not chess. These are human lives. WTF is wrong with you people.

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Do you think us Republicans are sitting back and enjoying the nightly body counts or the seemingly endless nature of this war?

Stay the course. If you don't - you're a freedom hater. Don't you want to be a freedom lover?

pah!:|

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: bobdelt
I still don't understand why any of you would rather forfeit than try to win. We arent losing, but we arent winning. Why quit in a tie.

I thought he spoke well and explained his reasonings quite well.

Please offer up your own life then I will listen to you. This is not chess. These are human lives. WTF is wrong with you people.

Because they're not sacrificing one GOD DAMNED THING no matter how much they claim to the contrary ("well psh...not me or anyone else I know so why should I give a fsck who goes over there and dies?!?")

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Not all Republicans are idiots, apparently:

"Iraqis need to be their own street cops, not U.S. forces," Sen. Gordon Smith, R-Oregon, said. "This is the president's Hail Mary pass. Now it is up to the Iraqi Army to catch the ball.

"We are extending an ineffective tactic to further the status quo," Smith continued. "Iraqis must be the ones to settle their own peace."

Notice he said "TACTIC" and not "STRATEGIC" since Bush is following the same failed strategy but trying the wonderfully new idea of throwing MORE bodies and money at it. Stupid ass.

Earlier in the day, Ohio Republican Sen. George Voinovich expressed ambivalence.

"At this point I am skeptical that a surge in troops alone will bring an end to sectarian violence and the insurgency," Voinovich said.

"What we need first is a political solution between Sunni Arabs and Shia militias that are adding to the violence," he added.

So, there's at least 2 Repugs who aren't knuckle draggers.

 

[Lemon law]

Its a political speech full of slogans---the distortion is in blaming AL-Quida, Iran, and Syria---when the bulk of the Iraqi insurgency is homegrown---but totally missing in action is the fact
that the very soon this plan must deal in AL-Sadr and his mufti army---as well as a pile of local militias--also missing in action is the fact that the Iraqi police are not to be trusted.
And GWB's plan is to base everything in local police precincts?---the question is and remains--what compromise and adjustments is GWB prepared to make to adjust to reality.?

But like it or not folks---------this is going to be the plan for the next six months or so----we all better be praying that it works?---and if it fails---its time to remove GWB.

And also making sure that GWB does not try to widen the war if the plan fails.---because that is the main other danger.

Overall, I thought the delivery was good--it will play well in red states---and flop in blue states---but this time its crunch time---GWB must get RESULTS. Nothing else will do.

 

[nikkai]

Unfortunately, that was stated with a civilian state of mind - which there lies no wrong intuitively.

However, Bush and all the policy makers have to think in a manner beyond an individual, but rather for the future country.

Whether he was/is wrong or not, isn't my point in posting. I'm just attempting to shine a light on a perspective that seems to be ignored amongst highly fueled (and rightly so) emotions.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Not all Republicans are idiots, apparently:

"Iraqis need to be their own street cops, not U.S. forces," Sen. Gordon Smith, R-Oregon, said. "This is the president's Hail Mary pass. Now it is up to the Iraqi Army to catch the ball.

"We are extending an ineffective tactic to further the status quo," Smith continued. "Iraqis must be the ones to settle their own peace."

Notice he said "TACTIC" and not "STRATEGIC" since Bush is following the same failed strategy but trying the wonderfully new idea of throwing MORE bodies and money at it. Stupid ass.

Earlier in the day, Ohio Republican Sen. George Voinovich expressed ambivalence.

"At this point I am skeptical that a surge in troops alone will bring an end to sectarian violence and the insurgency," Voinovich said.

"What we need first is a political solution between Sunni Arabs and Shia militias that are adding to the violence," he added.

So, there's at least 2 Repugs who aren't knuckle draggers.

Don't worry--they'll fall back into line soon enough...

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Do you think us Republicans are sitting back and enjoying the nightly body counts or the seemingly endless nature of this war?

Stay the course. If you don't - you're a freedom hater. Don't you want to be a freedom lover?

pah!:|

umm who said that? Not me.

If you don't agree with this war then you are entitled to your opinion. I would not say you are against freedom. I might call you a little naive though.

I get the feeling that if we leave Iraq tomorrow everyone losses, except the terrorists.

 

[sonoma1993]

I didnt bother listening to the speech. If the president is going to increase the amount of troops in iraq, he should do it right this time. Don't send in 20,000 more troops. Send in more like another 50,000-100,000 troops. Or find a way to get these other nations to send some troops in.

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Do you think us Republicans are sitting back and enjoying the nightly body counts or the seemingly endless nature of this war?

Stay the course. If you don't - you're a freedom hater. Don't you want to be a freedom lover?

pah!:|

umm who said that? Not me.

If you don't agree with this war then you are entitled to your opinion. I would not say you are against freedom. I might call you a little naive though.

I get the feeling that if we leave Iraq tomorrow everyone losses, except the terrorists.

My point is that the supporters of this little adventure for all this time, demonised any disagreement with it, with the policy/execution of it, now turn on the "WE CARE" sign.....

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: mc00
holy sh!t... profjohn did not fight this time around!! I'm speechless lol

Do you think us Republicans are sitting back and enjoying the nightly body counts or the seemingly endless nature of this war?

Hey "Prof" you should really just go back to a username close to who ever you were before you were banned. Youre not a prof and based on all your grammatical and spelling errors you must be barely a HS graduate.

Hint: Do you think us liberals buy your BS?

Oops, you probably dont know. In your sentence above it would be "we [people/folks/idiots/morans/neocons] are" unless you commonly say "us are." Which im sure you probably do.

 

[Linux23]

Originally posted by: DonVito
Ridiculous. Note his plan that, by the fall, the Iraqi security forces will largely take the lead in peacekeeping - does that seem realistic to anyone but him? This is basically just a token addition to his old "stay the course" approach.

Remember, America, you elected this boob not once but twice.

I only voted for him once.

 

[Jamie571]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: bobdelt
I still don't understand why any of you would rather forfeit than try to win. We aren?t losing, but we aren?t winning. Why quit in a tie.

I thought he spoke well and explained his reasonings quite well.

Please offer up your own life then I will listen to you. This is not chess. These are human lives. WTF is wrong with you people.

If we pull out of Iraq history has shown us through The Killing Fields of Cambodia just what can happen to human life.

The entire war disgust me to no end and I think they need more like 100,000 troops to make the difference the president talked about. To put things in perspective they're over 40,000 police officers just in New York.

Also the comments in this thread that ridicule the president and other no real alternative (which is over 85%) shows why the average IQ in America is around 100. Think of the shear amount of intelligence and military advice from hundreds of highly qualified people that is offered to the president to make his decisions.

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: Jamie571

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: bobdelt
I still don't understand why any of you would rather forfeit than try to win. We aren?t losing, but we aren?t winning. Why quit in a tie.

I thought he spoke well and explained his reasonings quite well.

Please offer up your own life then I will listen to you. This is not chess. These are human lives. WTF is wrong with you people.

If we pull out of Iraq history has shown us through The Killing Fields of Cambodia just what can happen to human life.

The entire war disgust me to no end and I think they need more like 100,000 troops to make the difference the president talked about. To put things in perspective they're over 40,000 police officers just in New York.

Also the comments in this thread that ridicule the president and other no real alternative (which is over 85%) shows why the average IQ in America is around 100. Think of the shear amount of intelligence and military advice from hundreds of highly qualified people that is offered to the president to make his decisions.

Think about the shear amount of that intelligence that was ignored in order to pursue this war....

 

[osage]

"Think of the shear amount of intelligence and military advice from hundreds of highly qualified people that is offered to the president to make his decisions."

yes, the same highly qualified people who told him and us that starting a war with a country that was in no way a threat to the US....sure I would believe them on this too

 

[Lemon law]

To Prof John,

Who writes endlessly--- Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Do you think us Republicans are sitting back and enjoying the nightly body counts or the seemingly endless nature of this war?

Therein lies the rub---you don't enjoy it---but you never seem to learn the obvious lesson---that not only is GWB&co. clueless---but you are too.

If you don't like pain---you alter your behavior so pain is less likely.---and while you are being pilloried as an idiotic enabler---and suffering mere embarrassment, real people
are dying like flies on both sides---or will suffer lifelong disabilities---maybe you ought to worry about the serious injured and the dead instead of your pain.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To Prof John,

Who writes endlessly--- Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Do you think us Republicans are sitting back and enjoying the nightly body counts or the seemingly endless nature of this war?

Therein lies the rub---you don't enjoy it---but you never seem to learn the obvious lesson---that not only is GWB&co. clueless---but you are too.

If you don't like pain---you alter your behavior so pain is less likely.---and while you are being pilloried as an idiotic enabler---and suffering mere embarrassment, real people
are dying like flies on both sides---or will suffer lifelong disabilities---maybe you ought to worry about the serious injured and the dead instead of your pain.

ummm is this not a new strategy? Seems to be what the talk heads on TV are saying.
We are not just sending in new troops, we are going to use them in a new way.

Perhaps instead of finding creative ways of insulting me you could offer up an idea or two of your own on what we should do.

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: Harvey
George Bush is worried about his legacy. He should be. He will be known throughout history as The man who broke the world.

Harvey, mate, I am as bleeding heart a liberal as there is... the Democratic party is too far right for my tastes... and I despise GWB more than I thought possible... but this is a little dramatic, no?

There have been many, many contenders for that title and will likely be many more. Give it a mere 200 years and GWB's presidency will be a minor negative, unfortunate footnote in history IMHO.

 

[Gamingphreek]

This is the most hopeless liberal forum in existence

I find it interesting that none of the Liberals in this thread have managed to respond to ProfJohn's question. So I'll restate it:

What do you feel we should do?

Don't give some political BS answer like "We shouldn't have been there in the first place"....Right now, "What do you feel our plan should be in Iraq"

Answer!

 

[osage]

while I don't consider myself a "bleeding heart liberal"
I would off this plan of action in Iraq.

Get out at once. 3-4 months tops have all our ppl out of there.