What did you think of the speech?

[Jamie571]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: Jamie571

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: bobdelt
I still don't understand why any of you would rather forfeit than try to win. We aren?t losing, but we aren?t winning. Why quit in a tie.

I thought he spoke well and explained his reasonings quite well.

Please offer up your own life then I will listen to you. This is not chess. These are human lives. WTF is wrong with you people.

If we pull out of Iraq history has shown us through The Killing Fields of Cambodia just what can happen to human life.

The entire war disgust me to no end and I think they need more like 100,000 troops to make the difference the president talked about. To put things in perspective they're over 40,000 police officers just in New York.

Also the comments in this thread that ridicule the president and other no real alternative (which is over 85%) shows why the average IQ in America is around 100. Think of the shear amount of intelligence and military advice from hundreds of highly qualified people that is offered to the president to make his decisions.

Think about the shear amount of that intelligence that was ignored in order to pursue this war....

I would agree that some intel. was ignored, but I would counter that the majority of the intel pointed that Iraq could be a theart to the US. I'm sure after 9-11 the bloodlust in the Military hyped up the intel to the president. One could assume another president when offered the same intel. after 9-11 would not have followed the same path as Bush.

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is the most hopeless liberal forum in existence

I find it interesting that none of the Liberals in this thread have managed to respond to ProfJohn's question. So I'll restate it:

What do you feel we should do?

Don't give some political BS answer like "We shouldn't have been there in the first place"....Right now, "What do you feel our plan should be in Iraq"

Answer!

I'd start drafting the chickhawk war supporters and sending them over to Iraq, that is if they could tear away from WOW and Cheetos.....

 

[mc00]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is the most hopeless liberal forum in existence

I find it interesting that none of the Liberals in this thread have managed to respond to ProfJohn's question. So I'll restate it:

What do you feel we should do?

Don't give some political BS answer like "We shouldn't have been there in the first place"....Right now, "What do you feel our plan should be in Iraq"

Answer!

I may not have a answer to our current issue.. sure, hell if I had solution to our current issue wouldn't include more solider lives.. I realize you the supporter of this chaos(war), prefer stay the course so yah won't look like coward for leaving and thinking the terrorist won, well we can't wipe them neither, there always going to be terrorist and no way in hell by our selfs are going destroy them all. So go head keep dumping money/solider lives to your beloved war on terror/freedom to the world adventures.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: osage
while I don't consider myself a "bleeding heart liberal"
I would off this plan of action in Iraq.

Get out at once. 3-4 months tops have all our ppl out of there.

Ok so you do know that in doing that a few things WILL happen:

A. Countries developing government will crumble away giving way to "tribes"
B. It will become a breeding ground for terrorist
C. It will be vulnerable to other nations such as Saudi Arabia and Iran

Are you seriously ok with this. After all the lives we have lost, you are ready to throw them all away and throw away any progress (No matter how little or big you think it is)?

-Kevin

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: mc00

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is the most hopeless liberal forum in existence

I find it interesting that none of the Liberals in this thread have managed to respond to ProfJohn's question. So I'll restate it:

What do you feel we should do?

Don't give some political BS answer like "We shouldn't have been there in the first place"....Right now, "What do you feel our plan should be in Iraq"

Answer!

I may not have answer to current issue.. sure, hell if I had solution to our current issue wouldn't include more solider lives.. I realize you the supporter of this chaos, prefer stay the course so yah won't look like coward for leaving and thinking the terrorist won, well we can't wipe them neither, there always going to be terrorist and no way in hell by our self are going destroy them all. so go head keep dumping money/solider life to your beloved war on terror/freedom to world adventures.

Its not my beloved war. I hate more as much as anyone, but unless you have a better suggestion, pulling out will essentially be saying "Screw all the lives we have lost and any progress"

Additionally, why will there always be a strong terror presence there. America had to form at one time, and we have very few terrorist here (Well as far as I know at least). Given time the Government will get stronger, as will the police and army....you do know that right?

-Kevin

 

[LcarsSystem]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is the most hopeless liberal forum in existence

I find it interesting that none of the Liberals in this thread have managed to respond to ProfJohn's question. So I'll restate it:

What do you feel we should do?

Don't give some political BS answer like "We shouldn't have been there in the first place"....Right now, "What do you feel our plan should be in Iraq"

Answer!

Leave. Who cares about the fallout and whether they kill themselves or not I certainly don't, and couldn't care less if they live or die, and I guarentee you that is the same way most American's feel. Sure... we should secure our own national interests first(oil our only reason for being there), but right now America wants democracy for Iraq more than they do themselves, this is just the cold heartless reality of this fiasco. I'm so fed up I don't give a damn anymore. It is just utterly idiotic that a person can think that if for some reason democracy is installed that over a thousand years of sectarian violence will end all of a sudden.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is the most hopeless liberal forum in existence

I find it interesting that none of the Liberals in this thread have managed to respond to ProfJohn's question. So I'll restate it:

What do you feel we should do?

Don't give some political BS answer like "We shouldn't have been there in the first place"....Right now, "What do you feel our plan should be in Iraq"

Answer!

Jebus chrissy, you listen to way too many conservative talk shows. We dems have been talking about plans since the war started.

Here are a few for your clearly damaged brain:
1) Dont ostracize ourselves.
2) Determine CLEAR goals, and not shift them on a whim.
3) Validate clear reasons for deciding among numberous goals, rather than cook intel for one predetermined goal.
4) Dont lie to the american people about #1, #2, and #3.

So how do we fix this?
1) Get rid of dumbYa and his neocon admin.
2) Enlist the help of the world community.
3) Admit fault in a nearly retarded president and apointed admin.
4) Let the fuse of civil war that we started commence. Oh wait, this has already happened.

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Its not my beloved war. I hate more as much as anyone, but unless you have a better suggestion, pulling out will essentially be saying "Screw all the lives we have lost and any progress"

Here ya go, Kevin....

You can be part of GWB's 20,000...

 

[Gamingphreek]

Good God have I opened the flood gates. All these Liberals against One Conservative lol. Give me time to type and address each message.

Leave. Who cares about the fallout and whether they kill themselves or not I certainly don't, and couldn't care less if they live or die, and I guarentee you that is the same way most American's feel. Sure... we should secure our own national interests first(oil our only reason for being there), but right now America wants democracy for Iraq more than they do themselves, this is just the cold heartless reality of this fiasco. I'm so fed up I don't give a damn anymore. It is just utterly idiotic that a person can think that if for some reason democracy is installed that over a thousand years of sectarian violence will end all of a sudden.

So as I said earlier, are you ready to condemn all the troops that have lost their lives over there.

Not only that, Liberals are constantly complaining about the bloodshed of Iraqi's. So if we pull out and end our troops bloodshed you don't care about any of the other countless thousands that will die as a result of our selfishness?

-Kevin

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Not only that, Liberals are constantly complaining about the bloodshed of Iraqi's. So if we pull out and end our troops bloodshed you don't care about any of the other countless thousands that will die as a result of our selfishness?

-Kevin

You consider your life more important then those who are serving?

Of course you do. It gives you a platform to keep whining about libs.....

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Its not my beloved war. I hate more as much as anyone, but unless you have a better suggestion, pulling out will essentially be saying "Screw all the lives we have lost and any progress"

Gawd, i know i have tangled with your rocks-for-brains attitude before, but i have to say some things, as futile as they may be. To make it simple for you, we already screwed the pooch by going in. Its a disaster. THe current admin want to "stay the course" and worse yet "escalate the couse." This means MORE lost lives. Do you not understand this? There is no goal, no objective, no nothing. Have you ever spent any time "thinking" about critical issues rather than just having them delivered to you pHr33K?

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is the most hopeless liberal forum in existence

I find it interesting that none of the Liberals in this thread have managed to respond to ProfJohn's question. So I'll restate it:

What do you feel we should do?

Don't give some political BS answer like "We shouldn't have been there in the first place"....Right now, "What do you feel our plan should be in Iraq"

Answer!

Jebus chrissy, you listen to way too many conservative talk shows. We dems have been talking about plans since the war started.

Here are a few for your clearly damaged brain:
1) Dont ostracize ourselves.
2) Determine CLEAR goals, and not shift them on a whim.
3) Validate clear reasons for deciding among numberous goals, rather than cook intel for one predetermined goal.
4) Dont lie to the american people about #1, #2, and #3.

So how do we fix this?
1) Get rid of dumbYa and his neocon admin.
2) Enlist the help of the world community.
3) Admit fault in a nearly retarded president and apointed admin.
4) Let the fuse of civil war that we started commence. Oh wait, this has already happened.

Ok for your first 4 points. I thought we had a plan. We were to set up a nation into a developing nation and eventually a developed nation. (Obviously I generalized but that is the basic gist of it).

#1 of the second set. You of course are entitled to your opinion. I can't argue someones opinion.

#2 of the second set. I believe we have already tried that. The UN wouldn't support our endeavor. A bunch of countries sent help to us for the initial invasion. If you know a way to convince the likes of France and the rest of the world to send troops, by all means go and address the UN.

#3 of the second set. The southern accent argument is really getting old, but over looking that. I only caught a small portion of the speech, but I distinctly remember Bush taking personal blame for any mistakes that may have happened from within his administration and as a result of their actions. You can choose which decisions of his are mistakes or not on your own.

#4 of the second set. Well I think, I THINK, this conflicts with #2. You want a civil war to convince which would mean pulling out of the country. Yet you want to enlist the help of the rest of the world. Not only that just read the comments I posted in my post prior to this one for reason why we can not pull out.

-Kevin

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Its not my beloved war. I hate more as much as anyone, but unless you have a better suggestion, pulling out will essentially be saying "Screw all the lives we have lost and any progress"

Gawd, i know i have tangled with your rocks-for-brains attitude before, but i have to say some things, as futile as they may be. To make it simple for you, we already screwed the pooch by going in. Its a disaster. THe current admin want to "stay the course" and worse yet "escalate the couse." This means MORE lost lives. Do you not understand this? There is no goal, no objective, no nothing. Have you ever spent any time "thinking" about critical issues rather than just having them delivered to you pHr33K?

Ya know, I haven't once insulted you who oppose my views. I realize this is P&N but I would appreciate it if you would leave the ad hominem argument out of your argument. All it does is detract from your points.

-Kevin

 

[mc00]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: mc00

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is the most hopeless liberal forum in existence

I find it interesting that none of the Liberals in this thread have managed to respond to ProfJohn's question. So I'll restate it:

What do you feel we should do?

Don't give some political BS answer like "We shouldn't have been there in the first place"....Right now, "What do you feel our plan should be in Iraq"

Answer!

I may not have answer to current issue.. sure, hell if I had solution to our current issue wouldn't include more solider lives.. I realize you the supporter of this chaos, prefer stay the course so yah won't look like coward for leaving and thinking the terrorist won, well we can't wipe them neither, there always going to be terrorist and no way in hell by our self are going destroy them all. so go head keep dumping money/solider life to your beloved war on terror/freedom to world adventures.

Its not my beloved war. I hate more as much as anyone, but unless you have a better suggestion, pulling out will essentially be saying "Screw all the lives we have lost and any progress"

Additionally, why will there always be a strong terror presence there. America had to form at one time, and we have very few terrorist here (Well as far as I know at least). Given time the Government will get stronger, as will the police and army....you do know that right?

-Kevin

I don't understand why so hard to work with this people? why can we solve this issue with diplomat instead point gun at each other( I ain't no hippie neither I fight if I have real cause)?
they can't be that dumb either at one point they will run of out people blow up them self for their cause or maybe grow tired of it(heh i doubt it). All I see in this war more hate from them and more terrorist being born, and this battle go on for many years..

and fcking honeslty I'm fed up with this war and all BS terrorist and freedom so on so on so fckin on. life to short and earth to small to handle all this bs from both world terrorist and war lovers.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Not only that, Liberals are constantly complaining about the bloodshed of Iraqi's. So if we pull out and end our troops bloodshed you don't care about any of the other countless thousands that will die as a result of our selfishness?

-Kevin

You consider your life more important then those who are serving?

Of course you do. It gives you a platform to keep whining about libs.....

I don't believe I have ever said that, nor will I ever.

I said if we pull out of Iraq it will be an insult to the memories of those who have already lost their lives, and it will condemn the Iraqi's to further turmoil as their newly formed Government undergoes a full collapse.

Here ya go, Kevin....

You can be part of GWB's 20,000...

Sorry, my purpose in life is not the Army. (If I had to choose it would be ROTC Air Force btw). I can do a whole lot more for this country by working based on my strengths. I'm in college and intend to stay there.

Additionally, why would you suggest that I serve. I said, I believe the War needed to happen, I believe it was handled poorly, and the moment the war started we were in too deep to pull out therefore, if we were to pull out we do all of the aforementioned things that I have posted IIRC 3x by now.

-Kevin

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: mc00

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: mc00

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is the most hopeless liberal forum in existence

I find it interesting that none of the Liberals in this thread have managed to respond to ProfJohn's question. So I'll restate it:

What do you feel we should do?

Don't give some political BS answer like "We shouldn't have been there in the first place"....Right now, "What do you feel our plan should be in Iraq"

Answer!

I may not have answer to current issue.. sure, hell if I had solution to our current issue wouldn't include more solider lives.. I realize you the supporter of this chaos, prefer stay the course so yah won't look like coward for leaving and thinking the terrorist won, well we can't wipe them neither, there always going to be terrorist and no way in hell by our self are going destroy them all. so go head keep dumping money/solider life to your beloved war on terror/freedom to world adventures.

Its not my beloved war. I hate more as much as anyone, but unless you have a better suggestion, pulling out will essentially be saying "Screw all the lives we have lost and any progress"

Additionally, why will there always be a strong terror presence there. America had to form at one time, and we have very few terrorist here (Well as far as I know at least). Given time the Government will get stronger, as will the police and army....you do know that right?

-Kevin

I don't understand why so hard to work with this people? why can we solve this issue with diplomat instead point gun at each other( I ain't no hippie neither I fight if I have real cause)?
they can't be that dumb either at one point they will run of out people blow up them self for their cause or maybe grow tired of it(heh i doubt it). All I see in this war more hate from them and more terrorist being born, and this battle go on for many years..

and fcking honeslty I'm fed up with this war and all BS terrorist and freedom so on so on so fckin on life to short and earth to small to handle all this bs from both world terrorist and war lovers.

If there were a Nation or a Governing body to deal with then we WOULD be using diplomatic means!! As it stands right now we are fighting a guerilla war against terrorists with no central governing body.

Who do you suggest we go to in order to negotiate? There isn't anyone I can think of.

-Kevin

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Its not my beloved war. I hate more as much as anyone, but unless you have a better suggestion, pulling out will essentially be saying "Screw all the lives we have lost and any progress"

Gawd, i know i have tangled with your rocks-for-brains attitude before, but i have to say some things, as futile as they may be. To make it simple for you, we already screwed the pooch by going in. Its a disaster. THe current admin want to "stay the course" and worse yet "escalate the couse." This means MORE lost lives. Do you not understand this? There is no goal, no objective, no nothing. Have you ever spent any time "thinking" about critical issues rather than just having them delivered to you pHr33K?

Stop wasting your time... When the outcome has no affect on them, they are quite as ease with what was has transpired...

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: mc00

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: mc00

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
This is the most hopeless liberal forum in existence

I find it interesting that none of the Liberals in this thread have managed to respond to ProfJohn's question. So I'll restate it:

What do you feel we should do?

Don't give some political BS answer like "We shouldn't have been there in the first place"....Right now, "What do you feel our plan should be in Iraq"

Answer!

I may not have answer to current issue.. sure, hell if I had solution to our current issue wouldn't include more solider lives.. I realize you the supporter of this chaos, prefer stay the course so yah won't look like coward for leaving and thinking the terrorist won, well we can't wipe them neither, there always going to be terrorist and no way in hell by our self are going destroy them all. so go head keep dumping money/solider life to your beloved war on terror/freedom to world adventures.

Its not my beloved war. I hate more as much as anyone, but unless you have a better suggestion, pulling out will essentially be saying "Screw all the lives we have lost and any progress"

Additionally, why will there always be a strong terror presence there. America had to form at one time, and we have very few terrorist here (Well as far as I know at least). Given time the Government will get stronger, as will the police and army....you do know that right?

-Kevin

I don't understand why so hard to work with this people? why can we solve this issue with diplomat instead point gun at each other( I ain't no hippie neither I fight if I have real cause)?
they can't be that dumb either at one point they will run of out people blow up them self for their cause or maybe grow tired of it(heh i doubt it). All I see in this war more hate from them and more terrorist being born, and this battle go on for many years..

and fcking honeslty I'm fed up with this war and all BS terrorist and freedom so on so on so fckin on life to short and earth to small to handle all this bs from both world terrorist and war lovers.

Leaving them to their own devices created 9-11, and soon they will go nuclear and it will lead to nuclear war. So that fits right in with your strung out sentence of being tired of it all, for allowing Islamic extremists safe haven is the surest route to a big bright glow, afterwards you won?t have to worry about anything.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Jebus chrissy, you listen to way too many conservative talk shows. We dems have been talking about plans since the war started.

Here are a few for your clearly damaged brain:
1) Dont ostracize ourselves.
2) Determine CLEAR goals, and not shift them on a whim.
3) Validate clear reasons for deciding among numberous goals, rather than cook intel for one predetermined goal.
4) Dont lie to the american people about #1, #2, and #3.

So how do we fix this?
1) Get rid of dumbYa and his neocon admin.
2) Enlist the help of the world community.
3) Admit fault in a nearly retarded president and apointed admin.
4) Let the fuse of civil war that we started commence. Oh wait, this has already happened.

Now that you have given your fantasy land answer.
How about a plan for what we can do today that will work. At least the people calling for withdrawal are willing to say so.

And for those of you calling for total withdrawal:
1. are you ok with the possibility that tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis could die without our troops there?
2. And if Iraq collapses are you ok with that result?
3. And what is your plan to deal with the terrorists who set up base in Iraq and then launch more attacks on American forces outside of Iraq?

Once they can no longer fight and kill us in Iraq they will go back to trying to fight and kill us elsewhere, or did you forget that simple fact?

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Its not my beloved war. I hate more as much as anyone, but unless you have a better suggestion, pulling out will essentially be saying "Screw all the lives we have lost and any progress"

Gawd, i know i have tangled with your rocks-for-brains attitude before, but i have to say some things, as futile as they may be. To make it simple for you, we already screwed the pooch by going in. Its a disaster. THe current admin want to "stay the course" and worse yet "escalate the couse." This means MORE lost lives. Do you not understand this? There is no goal, no objective, no nothing. Have you ever spent any time "thinking" about critical issues rather than just having them delivered to you pHr33K?

Stop wasting your time... When the outcome has no affect on them, they are quite as ease with what was has transpired...

How many times do you want me to post that I am most certainly at ease with lives lost. Here will it help if I post it 10x:

I hate it when someone dies in a war
I hate it when someone dies in a war
I hate it when someone dies in a war
I hate it when someone dies in a war
I hate it when someone dies in a war
I hate it when someone dies in a war
I hate it when someone dies in a war
I hate it when someone dies in a war
I hate it when someone dies in a war
I hate it when someone dies in a war

As an American citizen I most certainly believe the outcome will have an effect on me.

-Kevin

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
How many times do you want me to post that I am most certainly at ease with lives lost. Here will it help if I post it 10x:
-Kevin

Freudian Slip?

 

[mc00]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: homercles337
Jebus chrissy, you listen to way too many conservative talk shows. We dems have been talking about plans since the war started.

Here are a few for your clearly damaged brain:
1) Dont ostracize ourselves.
2) Determine CLEAR goals, and not shift them on a whim.
3) Validate clear reasons for deciding among numberous goals, rather than cook intel for one predetermined goal.
4) Dont lie to the american people about #1, #2, and #3.

So how do we fix this?
1) Get rid of dumbYa and his neocon admin.
2) Enlist the help of the world community.
3) Admit fault in a nearly retarded president and apointed admin.
4) Let the fuse of civil war that we started commence. Oh wait, this has already happened.

Now that you have given your fantasy land answer.
How about a plan for what we can do today that will work. At least the people calling for withdrawal are willing to say so.

And for those of you calling for total withdrawal:
1. are you ok with the possibility that tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis could die without our troops there?
2. And if Iraq collapses are you ok with that result?
3. And what is your plan to deal with the terrorists who set up base in Iraq and then launch more attacks on American forces outside of Iraq?

Once they can no longer fight and kill us in Iraq they will go back to trying to fight and kill us elsewhere, or did you forget that simple fact?

basically like I said before is going to be endless battle. what make you think by us stay course is going prevent terrorist? how you sure of that? ok let say iraq become democratic country.. terrorist will find another place to plan their attack on us, so than we go invade another country so all over again.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: mc00
basically like I said before is going to be endless battle. what make you think by us stay course is going prevent terrorist? how you sure of that? ok let say iraq become democratic country.. terrorist will find another place to plan their attack on us, so than we go invade another country so all over again.

The terrorists will TRY and find another country. However, look at the results in Somalia, worked real good for them there huh?
The best way to combat this is for the entire world to get involved in shutting down these types of governments, but most of Europe is worthless. They need their own 9-11 type attack before any of them will wake up.

 

[LcarsSystem]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Good God have I opened the flood gates. All these Liberals against One Conservative lol. Give me time to type and address each message.

Leave. Who cares about the fallout and whether they kill themselves or not I certainly don't, and couldn't care less if they live or die, and I guarentee you that is the same way most American's feel. Sure... we should secure our own national interests first(oil our only reason for being there), but right now America wants democracy for Iraq more than they do themselves, this is just the cold heartless reality of this fiasco. I'm so fed up I don't give a damn anymore. It is just utterly idiotic that a person can think that if for some reason democracy is installed that over a thousand years of sectarian violence will end all of a sudden.

So as I said earlier, are you ready to condemn all the troops that have lost their lives over there.

Not only that, Liberals are constantly complaining about the bloodshed of Iraqi's. So if we pull out and end our troops bloodshed you don't care about any of the other countless thousands that will die as a result of our selfishness?

-Kevin

Really? All I hear on the news is republicans crying about how everyone will be murdered if we were to leave and how it would throw the country into even more chaos, I don't like the whole republican reasoning for this war it is inherently flawed. They change their reasoning with no regard for consistentcy, first we are there for the WMD's and to remove Saddam, when we didn't find any WMD's we now become the world's humanitarians thus have a new excuse for being there; to help them. Oh and now add oil in there to by Bush's own admission, which he denied at the beginning as a reason for being there to begin with.


Utter bullsh!t....



It is unfortunate that our own military service men and women's lives were condemned the moment we entered this foolish war, but that does not mean we should condemn more. Like I said, I don't care anymore, we shouldn't be there so leave, let them deal with THEIR own mess. It makes no difference if they kill eachother, all I want is our troops home. Do you really believe any American cared about Iraqi's lives before this war? Why would they care now?

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: mc00

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: homercles337
Jebus chrissy, you listen to way too many conservative talk shows. We dems have been talking about plans since the war started.

Here are a few for your clearly damaged brain:
1) Dont ostracize ourselves.
2) Determine CLEAR goals, and not shift them on a whim.
3) Validate clear reasons for deciding among numberous goals, rather than cook intel for one predetermined goal.
4) Dont lie to the american people about #1, #2, and #3.

So how do we fix this?
1) Get rid of dumbYa and his neocon admin.
2) Enlist the help of the world community.
3) Admit fault in a nearly retarded president and apointed admin.
4) Let the fuse of civil war that we started commence. Oh wait, this has already happened.

Now that you have given your fantasy land answer.
How about a plan for what we can do today that will work. At least the people calling for withdrawal are willing to say so.

And for those of you calling for total withdrawal:
1. are you ok with the possibility that tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis could die without our troops there?
2. And if Iraq collapses are you ok with that result?
3. And what is your plan to deal with the terrorists who set up base in Iraq and then launch more attacks on American forces outside of Iraq?

Once they can no longer fight and kill us in Iraq they will go back to trying to fight and kill us elsewhere, or did you forget that simple fact?

basically like I said before is going to be endless battle. what make you think by us stay course is going prevent terrorist? how you sure of that? ok let say iraq become democratic country.. terrorist will find another place to plan their attack on us, so than we go invade another country so all over again.

We have known Iran and Somalia have harbored terrorists in the past. We don't like North Korea. We haven't invaded them yet. I think we will just have to trust the leadership which we the people elect not to get us in too deep (Which some believe is right now, while some don't). Also, I don't need to remind you guys as you are all educated (Seriously its a compliment not sarcasm), even if they use another one of their bases, that is one less place they can stay. One less place in the world that isn't safe.

Staying the course isn't going to necessarily prevent terrorism directly, it will aid the Iraqi's in forming their own government which will eventually take control of the situation. After that happens, assuming they attain stability, it will be very hard for terrorists to corrupt a democratic government and wreak havoc over there. Compare that to how easy it would be for terrorism to form in a country with no set government or a very very weak developing one.

-Kevin