What do Conservative parents tell their kids about Reagan?

gryphus

Member
Feb 28, 2015
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Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal spending “ballooned” under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest — the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.

Do Conservative parents tell their kids that Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously or are those some of the details they'd rather leave out?
 

xXandra

Member
Feb 12, 2015
25
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I'll tell my kids about his endurance, optimism and perfect sense of humour. He really welded the US nation.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
He committed treason because he loved America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair

He intentionally caused an HIV and hepatitis epidemic by forcing drug users to share needles.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10148824

His deep hatred of black people led to the creation of laws that specifically target black communities. The minimum jail time for possessing crack cocaine (common in black communities) is much higher than the minimum jail time for possessing regular cocaine (common in white communities).

He created the modern prison state:




He managed to surpass a comic book level of evil. Imagine you're reading a Batman comic where the Joker had a plot to spread HIV, destroy black communities, and throw hundreds of thousands of Americans in jail for decades at a time. You would think it's silly. How the hell would the Joker pull off something that big? That's a good question. Reagan pulled it off because he's smarter and more dedicated than the Joker.

 

gradoman

Senior member
Mar 19, 2007
883
548
136
He committed treason because he loved America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair

He intentionally caused an HIV and hepatitis epidemic by forcing drug users to share needles.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10148824

His deep hatred of black people led to the creation of laws that specifically target black communities. The minimum jail time for possessing crack cocaine (common in black communities) is much higher than the minimum jail time for possessing regular cocaine (common in white communities).

He created the modern prison state:




He managed to surpass a comic book level of evil. Imagine you're reading a Batman comic where the Joker had a plot to spread HIV, destroy black communities, and throw hundreds of thousands of Americans in jail for decades at a time. You would think it's silly. How the hell would the Joker pull off something that big? That's a good question. Reagan pulled it off because he's smarter and more dedicated than the Joker.


Wow. This post blew my mind. No, I'm not saying I don't buy it, but I'm definitely going to look into your post a bit more.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
That he was the first President who had the good sense to run foreign policy according to his wife's Astrologist's charts, saving the country from, you got it, disaster.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,662
4,136
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Do Conservative parents tell their kids that Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously or are those some of the details they'd rather leave out?

Im sure its like religion. They just cherry pick and choose the parts they think are the best and disregard all the bad. :awe:
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
He committed treason because he loved America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair

I have no especial love for the Gipper, but some of what you said is opinion rather than fact. For example, under what basis are you calling Iran-Contra treason? The Borland Amendment wasn't a criminal statute.

He intentionally caused an HIV and hepatitis epidemic by forcing drug users to share needles.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10148824

Reagan didn't "force" them to share needles any more than he "forced" people to have unprotected sex. Not facilitating legal activity just because it may have secondary adverse impacts to those who engage in the crime is a perfectly moral stance to take.

His deep hatred of black people led to the creation of laws that specifically target black communities. The minimum jail time for possessing crack cocaine (common in black communities) is much higher than the minimum jail time for possessing regular cocaine (common in white communities).

I have no idea if he hated black people or not. The laws you're likely speaking of were in response to the crack epidemic, and if the government had just let the drug spread you would have blamed him for that. It's the typical "heads I win, tails you lose" argument you make whenever policing minority communities comes up - if you aggressively target crime then you're a racist bastard, if you don't then you're "leaving the community to rot."

He created the modern prison state:

Fine, give him the blame for that. It's not like any other President since has really tried to rein in the War Against Drugs either.

He managed to surpass a comic book level of evil. Imagine you're reading a Batman comic where the Joker had a plot to spread HIV, destroy black communities, and throw hundreds of thousands of Americans in jail for decades at a time. You would think it's silly. How the hell would the Joker pull off something that big? That's a good question. Reagan pulled it off because he's smarter and more dedicated than the Joker.

I could just as easily say that about LBJ, who sent tens of thousands of blacks to their deaths in Vietnam on bogus pretenses (Gulf of Tonkin) among other things.
 

Venix

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2002
1,084
3
81
Wow. This post blew my mind. No, I'm not saying I don't buy it, but I'm definitely going to look into your post a bit more.

It's mostly nonsense. The law that mandated lengthy mandatory minimum sentences for crack possession was introduced by a Democrat and largely architected by Vice President Biden, who was then the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and a notorious anti-drug zealot. The law passed 396-18 in the House, and 97-2 in the Senate.

Anti-drug insanity in the 80's crossed party lines. It's ridiculous to blame Reagan for laws that were wildly popular with Congress and the American public.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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It's mostly nonsense. The law that mandated lengthy mandatory minimum sentences for crack possession was introduced by a Democrat and largely architected by Vice President Biden, who was then the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and a notorious anti-drug zealot. The law passed 396-18 in the House, and 97-2 in the Senate.

Anti-drug insanity in the 80's crossed party lines. It's ridiculous to blame Reagan for laws that were wildly popular with Congress and the American public.
Blaming Reagan for causing the HIV epidemic was interesting as well. Reagan had his faults...but damn! That's insane!
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
I have no especial love for the Gipper, but some of what you said is opinion rather than fact. For example, under what basis are you calling Iran-Contra treason?
It's because Iran is officially an enemy state. This is on the same level as selling arms to North Korea, ISIS, or Al Qaeda. Feel free to try this. Donate some money to Al Qaeda and see if the government has a problem with it.


Reagan didn't "force" them to share needles any more than he "forced" people to have unprotected sex. Not facilitating legal activity just because it may have secondary adverse impacts to those who engage in the crime is a perfectly moral stance to take.
My point is that he intentionally made the problem worse. It was not an accident. Every medical professional on the planet will tell you that restricting the sale of needles will cause drug users to share needles and spread disease. He knew this, and then he went ahead and did it. Experts basically told him "Americans will die if you do X, Y, and Z." He thought about it for a minute and said "I like the sound of that. Let's make X, Y, and Z the official government policy."

I make a similar claim about Nixon wanting to kill Americans. We had seen what a disaster the war on alcohol was. We had lots of statistics to look at. Alcoholism increased during prohibition, tax revenue decreased, spending on law enforcement increased, organized crime exploded, petty crime increased. It was a failure in every conceivable way. Nixon knew all of this and said "I want that. Let's do that again. I want more dead Americans. I want more organized crime. I want Mexican drug cartels to have enough money to afford helicopters and military weapons. I want law enforcement spending to skyrocket. I want the prison population to skyrocket." None of this is accidental.


I have no idea if he hated black people or not. The laws you're likely speaking of were in response to the crack epidemic, and if the government had just let the drug spread you would have blamed him for that. It's the typical "heads I win, tails you lose" argument you make whenever policing minority communities comes up - if you aggressively target crime then you're a racist bastard, if you don't then you're "leaving the community to rot."
Saying there was a crack epidemic is extremely misleading and you know it. The 1980s had a cocaine problem. It's true that black communities saw increased cocaine use. You know which other communities saw increased cocaine use? All of them. White people used more cocaine. Hispanic people used more cocaine. Asian people used more cocaine. Aliens from other planets used more cocaine. Cocaine was everywhere. The government specifically targeted drug dealers in black communities by making crack carry much longer prison terms than regular cocaine. If you're selling $100 worth of normal cocaine to white people, you get 5 years in jail. If you're selling $100 worth of crack to black people, you get life in jail. Naturally, drug dealers in white communities tend to be white, and drug dealers in black communities tend to be black. The whole point these lopsided laws was to throw black people in jail. There is absolutely no scientific basis for making cocaine as a salt and cocaine as a base carry different prison terms. None. They have the exact same effects in the brain. They're both extremely addictive. They come from the same plant, sold by the same drug cartel. They have the exact same chemical structure. The only difference is that one has a lower boiling point.

Suppose there was a law saying beer was illegal. Making crack and regular coke have different prison sentences is like giving different prison sentences for selling frozen beer versus selling liquid beer. White people prefer the frozen beer and black people prefer the liquid beer. By sheer coincidence, the one preferred by black people is 10x more illegal. I'm sure racism was not the motivating factor for such a distinction...... even though drug laws and racism historically go hand in hand.



I could just as easily say that about LBJ, who sent tens of thousands of blacks to their deaths in Vietnam on bogus pretenses (Gulf of Tonkin) among other things.
And you would be right. LBJ hated Americans. The people who like LBJ are the same people who watched the Saw movies and concluded Jigsaw was the hero. Draft a man into the army, give him a gun, send him into a war zone, and say "would you like to play a game?"
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
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He saved the country a bundle by demanding the lazy mental patients get out of bed and go out into the world. :thumbsup:
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
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I don't know how anyone looks at Reagan's legacy and says, 'yep! He was a good president'. His policies and his people all have been a disaster for this country and we are still, to this day, trying to fix the mess he helped create.

If Reagan were a dem right now doing the exact same things he did back then the level of hate, obstruction, and the amount of finger pointing the right has levied against Obama would be more than doubled against Reagan.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
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What do Conservative parents tell their kids about Reagan?

Remember we're talking about conservatives here, so the correct answer is that they won't tell their kids anything of actual substance, but instead just that Reagan should be in Mt. Rushmore.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Reagan is to Conservatives what Mohammed is to Muslims.
He was a leader who united a nation during a horrific double dip recession at the height of the Cold War. They were dark, dark days. He also negotiated and compromised in order to accomplish many bipartisan solutions. And despite the 'trickle down' meme, the economic policies initiated under his administration led us out of severe recession and into the Great Moderation. He was not perfect for sure, but he definitely had many positive attributes and accomplishments.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136
He was a leader who united a nation during a horrific double dip recession at the height of the Cold War. They were dark, dark days. He also negotiated and compromised in order to accomplish many bipartisan solutions. And despite the 'trickle down' meme, the economic policies initiated under his administration led us out of severe recession and into the Great Moderation. He was not perfect for sure, but he definitely had many positive attributes and accomplishments.


And that there folks is the correct conservative answer; vague enough to spin it in good light but lacking the details as to hide the actual policies he implemented that go against "conservative principals", all while ignoring all of his other bad policies that we are still cleaning up.

Good job doc! I knew you could do it
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
He saved the country a bundle by demanding the lazy mental patients get out of bed and go out into the world. :thumbsup:
Wasn't that the result of a supreme court ruling that said it's unconstitutional to forcefully lock people up just because they might be dangerous even though they haven't broken any laws? That seems like a valid ruling.

The logical thing to do would be to provide cheap government-subsidized drugs and therapy to mentally ill people so they can function in the real world. People with schizophrenia can have relatively normal lives if they have the right medication, but that medication can be expensive. The whole country is against socialism, so those people receive no help at all until they go nuts and stab someone. Then it becomes constitutional to lock them up and give them free drugs and therapy. What the fuck. Seriously. Why don't we just set big piles of money on fire while we're at it. Do people think putting people in jail and running them through the court system is cheap?

This is one of the reasons the prison population exploded. About 1% of the population has schizophrenia. In a country of 300 million people, that's about 3 million people with schizophrenia. What percentage of them are receiving proper treatment? What percentage of them are walking around with no treatment at all? What percentage of them are Glenn Beck fans? As one would expect, a very high percentage of people in prison are mentally ill.
 
Last edited:
Nov 30, 2006
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And that there folks is the correct conservative answer; vague enough to spin it in good light but lacking the details as to hide the actual policies he implemented that go against "conservative principals", all while ignoring all of his other bad policies that we are still cleaning up.

Good job doc! I knew you could do it
Busted! OK, I confess that I did conveniently forget to mention that he caused the HIV epidemic. Tough to pull the wool over your eyes!
 
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