What do Conservative parents tell their kids about Reagan?

[MovingTarget]

Obama grew the size of the federal debt tremendously. Obama said running up the debt was unpatriotic. But federal spending “ballooned” under Obama. He promised shovel ready jobs in return for massive spending but then he admitted the jobs were not shovel ready. He promised healthcare that would allow you to keep your doctor and your plan but save the average American family $2500. None of those were true. He promised illegal aliens would not get the new healthcare but now he's granting them citizenship which will allow them to get it.

Do Liberal parents tell their kids that Obama grew the size of the federal government tremendously and ran up debt that even their children won't be able to pay back or are those some of the details they'd rather leave out?

They don't tell their kids any such thing. Instead, they just hand over their iDevice to let them play Angry Birds or GOW. Honestly though, we have had thirty-ish years of hindsight about Reagan and his policies' ultimate effects. For Obama, how history will judge him has yet to be determined as he is still the president. Kids can observe in real time what he does and analyze it when they get old enough to understand, much like this thread attempts to do with Reagan. Bringing Obama into this discussion is analogous to mixing oil and water.

 

[soundforbjt]

K Street also grew by leaps and bounds during his administration, as did the number of billionaires. IIRC, the number of Billionaires was around 86 when he took office, around 1100-1200 when he left.

 

[Linux23]

Reagan was America's Putin, which is why the modern GOP creams their collective jeans every time Vlad hops on a horse.

LMFAO.

not sure why i could envision what you typed.

 

[berzerker60]

Obama grew the size of the federal debt tremendously. Obama said running up the debt was unpatriotic. But federal spending “ballooned” under Obama. He promised shovel ready jobs in return for massive spending but then he admitted the jobs were not shovel ready. He promised healthcare that would allow you to keep your doctor and your plan but save the average American family $2500. None of those were true. He promised illegal aliens would not get the new healthcare but now he's granting them citizenship which will allow them to get it.

Do Liberal parents tell their kids that Obama grew the size of the federal government tremendously and ran up debt that even their children won't be able to pay back or are those some of the details they'd rather leave out?

Get back to me in 30 years when there's a cult of Obama-worship akin to the GOP's Reagan worship and then these comparisons will be slightly more valid, though "exaggerated the benefits of a health care bill" isn't exactly "sold weapons to Iranian terrorists in order to fund other terrorists closer to home."

 

[Spungo]

Get back to me in 30 years when there's a cult of Obama-worship akin to the GOP's Reagan worship and then these comparisons will be slightly more valid, though "exaggerated the benefits of a health care bill" isn't exactly "sold weapons to Iranian terrorists in order to fund other terrorists closer to home."

Then eventually we find out the insurance companies who wrote the bill were owned by large Iranian share holders. Damn you again, Iran! :awe:

 

[glenn1]

Get back to me in 30 years when there's a cult of Obama-worship akin to the GOP's Reagan worship and then these comparisons will be slightly more valid, though "exaggerated the benefits of a health care bill" isn't exactly "sold weapons to Iranian terrorists in order to fund other terrorists closer to home."

LOL, you're acting like Daniel Ortega was some sort of saintly do-gooder in all this. If anything this was like the Iraq/Iran war where both sides were bastards the world would be better without. Please explain why Regan's involvement in this is somehow worse than the CIA sponsoreed coups that happen during every administration; I've love to know why him supporting the Contras was bad but Kennedy overthrowing Trujillio in the Dominican Republic is better, or Carter helping engineer the 1980 coup in Turkey, or etc etc etc for dozens more examples.

 

[Jhhnn]

LOL, you're acting like Daniel Ortega was some sort of saintly do-gooder in all this. If anything this was like the Iraq/Iran war where both sides were bastards the world would be better without. Please explain why Regan's involvement in this is somehow worse than the CIA sponsoreed coups that happen during every administration; I've love to know why him supporting the Contras was bad but Kennedy overthrowing Trujillio in the Dominican Republic is better, or Carter helping engineer the 1980 coup in Turkey, or etc etc etc for dozens more examples.

What you know isn't shit. Daniel Ortega is currently the president of Nicaragua & the Iran-Contra affair was in direct contradiction of US law. There was an embargo against weapons sales to Iran. The other source of Contra funding, cocaine smuggling, is also illegal but they found a way to turn their back on that, too.

The usual CIA meddling is not even in the same ballpark.

 

[ivwshane]

You'll notice how his post is devoid of any and all context as if the budget proposed by Reagan with regards to aids, wasn't increased by congress every year. Reagan didn't "recommend" shit, it's was recommended to him to increase spending year after year and after 10,000 cases of aids had been diagnosed. Again, had Obama done the exact same thing with Ebola the right would have been calling for a lynching. But because it's reagan, pricks like doc sugar coat history and make reagan out to something he wasn't.

There ain't a honest bone in the poster below it's why he points to the yearly aids budget as proof reagan "recommended" more spending as if there is a correlation.


You can ignore me bitch but you can't ignore the facts

I asked you a question.

If I show you that Reagan recommended $500mm in AIDS research will you admit that you're attempting to revise history that he somehow didn't care?

Anyway, here's the HHS funding for HIV/AIDS for every budget approved by Reagan along with the percentage increase over the prior year funding level. The $500mm number previously cited was for FY1987 alone. The total amount of spending increased dramatically during his administration as the problem escalated and funding totaled over $3.2B which was huge money in those days.

FY1982 5,555,000 (2,678%)
FY1983 28,736,000 (417%)
FY1984 61,460,000 (114%)
FY1985 108,618,000 (77%)
FY1986 233,793,000 (115%)
FY1987 502,455,000 (115%)
FY1988 962,018,000 (94%)
FY1989 1,304,012,000 (36%)
Total 3,206,647,000

(See Table 2 on Page 9)
http://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/crsreports/crsdocuments/RL3073103232005.pdf

 

[glenn1]

What you know isn't shit. Daniel Ortega is currently the president of Nicaragua & the Iran-Contra affair was in direct contradiction of US law. There was an embargo against weapons sales to Iran. The other source of Contra funding, cocaine smuggling, is also illegal but they found a way to turn their back on that, too.

The usual CIA meddling is not even in the same ballpark.

Yeah congrats on that, you can return to enjoying his attacks on the west and capitalism while ignoring his civil rights violations in the past and banning all abortions now while selling the country's soul to China. "The enemy of my enemy" I guess.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Reagan trades arms for hostages <-- Evil, horrible human being
Obama trades terrorists for a deserter <-- Awesome

 

[D-Man]

What do Conservative parents tell their kids about Reagan? I tell them to use baited posts like this as a source of amusement that draws the crazies out like moths to a fire.

 

[master_shake_]

He committed treason because he loved America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair

He intentionally caused an HIV and hepatitis epidemic by forcing drug users to share needles.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10148824

His deep hatred of black people led to the creation of laws that specifically target black communities. The minimum jail time for possessing crack cocaine (common in black communities) is much higher than the minimum jail time for possessing regular cocaine (common in white communities).

He created the modern prison state:

He managed to surpass a comic book level of evil. Imagine you're reading a Batman comic where the Joker had a plot to spread HIV, destroy black communities, and throw hundreds of thousands of Americans in jail for decades at a time. You would think it's silly. How the hell would the Joker pull off something that big? That's a good question. Reagan pulled it off because he's smarter and more dedicated than the Joker.

sounds like a corporate american fucking hero.

 

[smackababy]

"The Reaganator needs fossil fuel, you people will never learn.
And for this lack of vision, your country will fucking burn!"

That is what I elect to tell anyone about Reagan.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

sounds like a corporate american fucking hero.

Spungo is so full of shit. Apparently you missed the part of the thread where the actual facts were presented.

 

[Spungo]

Spungo is so full of shit. Apparently you missed the part of the thread where the actual facts were presented.

And which facts would those be? He increased spending for HIV after he intentionally spreads HIV? What a saint. I always send apology cards to people after I give them HIV. I'm a saint too.

I already posted this, but I'll post it again because some people didn't read it:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10148824

Needle sharing among intravenous drug users is fueling the modern HIV epidemic. A public health approach to needle-borne infection has three components: prevention and education, availability of sterile injection equipment, and drug treatment. This essay examines the most controversial aspect of this strategy--sterile needle distribution and exchange. The sharing of drug injection equipment is the critical factor in the transmission of HIV in the drug using population. Sharing is not merely a learned response, but is also the result of a limited supply of needles and syringes. Limiting the supply of sterile equipment results from a policy choice which includes: (i) the adoption of drug paraphernalia statutes which criminalize the possession of equipment with the intention of using it for drug injection; (ii) the adoption of needle prescription statutes which criminalize the sale of needles and syringes without a medical prescription; and (iii) the failure to adopt a comprehensive program for the distribution, exchange, or sterilization of equipment. A public health approach to reduce the needle-borne HIV epidemic would repeal needle prescription laws, limit drug paraphernalia laws so they apply only to illicit sellers, and establish needle exchange programs with an array of education and drug treatment services attached.

Translation: Reagan is directly responsible for this problem. He wanted to restrict needles. Just as every health expert on the planet said would happen, it caused HIV rates to increase dramatically.

We throw parents in jail for this sort of things on a regular basis. A kid gets sick, medical experts all agree the child needs a certain medical treatment, the parents ignore the doctors, the child dies as doctors said he would, the parents are arrested and thrown in jail. As far as the law is concerned, it's your fault when you do something that you know will kill someone.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

And which facts would those be? He increased spending for HIV after he intentionally spreads HIV? What a saint. I always send apology cards to people after I give them HIV. I'm a saint too.

This part clearly shows that you are completely insane.

I already posted this, but I'll post it again because some people didn't read it:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10148824

Translation: Reagan is directly responsible for this problem. He wanted to restrict needles. Just as every health expert on the planet said would happen, it caused HIV rates to increase dramatically.

This study was written years AFTER Reagan left office. When the science became clear on what needed to be done, it was Clinton who opposed legalizing needle exchanges and he waited until 1998 before signing legislation lifting restrictions...nearly 10 years AFTER Reagan left office! If you've got a beef with anyone regarding this issue...it should be with Clinton, not Reagan.

We throw parents in jail for this sort of things on a regular basis. A kid gets sick, medical experts all agree the child needs a certain medical treatment, the parents ignore the doctors, the child dies as doctors said he would, the parents are arrested and thrown in jail. As far as the law is concerned, it's your fault when you do something that you know will kill someone.

False equivalence. Total fail.

 

[zinfamous]

Busted! OK, I confess that I did conveniently forget to mention that he caused the HIV epidemic. Tough to pull the wool over your eyes!

He handcuffed the CDC from doing their job properly the first 3 years, never mentioned AIDS in public until the last year of his presidency, and well, just plain ignored it while it was running rampant.

He allowed it to happen, and progress well beyond what it ever should have been, by directly ignoring all CDC recommendations.

That's actually a far less controversial claim than you probably think it is.

 

[master_shake_]

Spungo is so full of shit. Apparently you missed the part of the thread where the actual facts were presented.

i read the "facts" you presented and then laughed liek a nut when i found out you meant recommended not gave.

but really i mean the part about incarceration levels going up exponentially.

the PIC must love Reagan.

 

[Spungo]

False equivalence. Total fail.

How is it false equivalence?
-doctors make a medically sound recommendation
-person ignores recommendation
-people die as a result of ignoring that recommendation
-person who ignored the recommendation goes to jail


How about this. My cooking advisers tell me that putting eggs in a frying pan will create fried eggs. I respect their opinions and I decide to put eggs in a frying pan. Just as my advisers predicted, this created fried eggs. Would you say I accidentally created fried eggs? Of course not. I was explicitly told that it would create fried eggs. I chose to create fried eggs. I wanted fried eggs.

 

[MongGrel]

It'll trickle down when you grow up.

:biggrin:

Robin Williams Live at the Mets Part 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZJCDTKU_-E

Even more of a tribute to the brilliance that was Robin Williams.

 

[Spungo]

This study was written years AFTER Reagan left office.

They can't do studies on things before they happen. They can only give theory of what will happen before it happens. The theory said that implicitly encouraging people to share needles would lead people to... [drum roll] share needles. The studies after the disaster merely confirmed that the theory was correct.
Think of it like hurricanes flooding cities. The theory is that having a low quality levy system will lead to flooding. Then hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans and it caused flooding. Were engineers shocked? Not really. Engineers already knew this. The flood itself merely confirmed the validity of existing theories.

When the science became clear on what needed to be done, it was Clinton who opposed legalizing needle exchanges and he waited until 1998 before signing legislation lifting restrictions...nearly 10 years AFTER Reagan left office! If you've got a beef with anyone regarding this issue...it should be with Clinton, not Reagan.

Then he gets full blame as well. Clinton hated Americans just as much as every other president in the last 50 years.

 

[MongGrel]

How is it false equivalence?
-doctors make a medically sound recommendation
-person ignores recommendation
-people die as a result of ignoring that recommendation
-person who ignored the recommendation goes to jail


How about this. My cooking advisers tell me that putting eggs in a frying pan will create fried eggs. I respect their opinions and I decide to put eggs in a frying pan. Just as my advisers predicted, this created fried eggs. Would you say I accidentally created fried eggs? Of course not. I was explicitly told that it would create fried eggs. I chose to create fried eggs. I wanted fried eggs.

Logic seems lost on many people these days to begin with.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

He handcuffed the CDC from doing their job properly the first 3 years, never mentioned AIDS in public until the last year of his presidency, and well, just plain ignored it while it was running rampant.

He allowed it to happen, and progress well beyond what it ever should have been, by directly ignoring all CDC recommendations.

That's actually a far less controversial claim than you probably think it is.

How did Reagan handcuff the CDC? Be specific.

Reagan first mentioned AIDS publicly in 1985...years before the end of his term. It was in response to a question at a press conference on 9/17/85. On 2/5/86, he publicly stated &#8220;One of our highest public health priorities is going to be continuing to find a cure for AIDS.&#8221; Therefore your statement that he didn't publicly mention it until the last year of his presidency is a lie.

In early 1986 when he stated it was "one of our highest public health priorities" he also immediately requested the Surgeon General to prepare a major report on the disease. He then had AIDS awareness brochures sent to every household in this country and essentially doubled funding every consecutive year of his 8-year presidency to fight AIDS. That's ignoring?

One thing I think a lot of people miss is that the scope and severity of this disease took a while to recognize. The chart below gives some relevant perspective on this point. People in the U.S. really didn't start going "Oh shit" until about 1985 and it took the press until 9/17/85 to ask him their first question on this subject.

 

[ttown]

...snip.... If you're selling $100 worth of normal cocaine to white people, you get 5 years in jail. If you're selling $100 worth of crack to black people, you get life in jail. ....snip...

So Reagan must really have loved black people more than others since he tried so hard to punish the people hooking them on such an addictive and destructive drug.

If you really believe your nonsense, I'm curious how much you hate Obama and the rest of the democrats for still having a large disparity in sentencing between the two different drugs -- all while preying on people's stupidity by calling the 2010 law a "Fair Sentencing Act"

To answer the ops question: I'll downplay Iran Contra and talk up his bringing the country together and the reduction in top tax rates. And I might throw something in about turning around Democrat Jimmy Carter's recession. And I'll probably end it with "The government is not the solution to our problem.... Government IS the problem."

 

[ivwshane]

The scope of the disease took a while? You ignorant fuck! Had reagan listened to the medical community in the first place and actually addressed it early on there would have been a very real chance of limiting the spread of a disease that spreads in a very particular and preventable way.

Would you be praising Obama if he didn't address Ebola until 5000+ cases of it had been spread in the US? Would you have given obama praise for recommending spending on research for Ebola at X amount four years later and then recommend cutting that spending and maintaining that level of spending for the next few years meanwhile Ebola spread at an exponential level? Would you be praising Obama or congress who year after year voted to increase the spending on Ebola? I doubt you would you dishonest piece of shit.

You are a typical right wing hack, impervious to reality and history in context.

How did Reagan handcuff the CDC? Be specific.

Reagan first mentioned AIDS publicly in 1985...years before the end of his term. It was in response to a question at a press conference on 9/17/85. On 2/5/86, he publicly stated “One of our highest public health priorities is going to be continuing to find a cure for AIDS.” Therefore your statement that he didn't publicly mention it until the last year of his presidency is a lie.

In early 1986 he stated it was "one of our highest public health priorities" immediately requested the Surgeon General to prepare a major report on the disease. He had AIDS awareness brochures sent to every household in this country and essentially doubled funding every year of his presidency to fight AIDS. That's ignoring?

One thing I think a lot of people miss is that the scope and severity of this disease took a while to recognize. The chart below gives some relevant perspective on this point. People really didn't start going "Oh shit" until 1984/85.