What do Democrats stand for right now?

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ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: daveymark
I never hear anything about what the Democrats stand for, all I hear is anti Bush rhetoric for the most part. Anyone?
That's about all they stand for...anti-Bush.
Here's a good example of someone who just read the original post and posted the usual knee-jerk response.

So what's your point?
 

daveymark

Lifer
Sep 15, 2003
10,576
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Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: daveymark
I never hear anything about what the Democrats stand for, all I hear is anti Bush rhetoric for the most part. Anyone?

That's about all they stand for...anti-Bush.

Did you read anything else in the thread besides my OP?
 

Willoughbyva

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2001
3,267
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I read a few of the responses and thought I would skip the rest and chime in with my own input. I don't know what the platform of the democrats is. What I am concerned about is the american society. There used to be a time when people would at least try to work together to get things done. Me personally after what this president and republican party has done over the last four years i would tend to not try to work with them and try to stall them so that their radical ideas never come forward into reality. This president is weak. He has the lowest aproval rating since he has been in office and he is also a lame duck. Usually the presiden has about 2 good years before he loses control, but hopefully he will not have the power he has had since the begining of his administration. The republicans in the house and senate need to rethink their aliegence as a voting body and a part of the balance of power. I am glad to see that they did not give up their power of fillerbustering. It is good that they have come to their senses. A lot of people think that if they could just have things the way they see it; meaning if they had the power to change things then the outcome would be better. The current house and senate republicans has just about voted as a single unity. This is wrong in my opinion. I think that different branches need to think about things harder than they have in the past. There should actually be a balance of power in Washington. It allows for more ideas and hopefull better ideas to come forward. It also alows for different voices to be heard.

So what does the democrats stand for? I would say stopping bush and the republicans from ruining the country. They campaigned in the first election as smaller government and to be tight with the purse strings. However that hasn't happened. It is true that we in war at two countries with terrorists, but still the deficit is going crazy. So I would say that what is needed is for the democrats to get into power and hopefully find more partners to work in the global arena. Here at home people are talking about social security. I think that they should leave social security alone and raise taxes enough so that it will be ok. People need to understand that they need a social safety net, especially when they get older. I wouldn't mind paying more taxes so that i would have benifits when I get to retirement age. The retirement age needs to be left alone too. It seems that people want to get out of paying taxes for social security or that social security needs to be done away with. Can you imagine the termoil that would cause when those people started reaching retirement age? The thing about living in a civilized society is that people actually need to work together. People actually need to provide for other people. If you don't want to live in a civilized society then there are other countries out there that you can move to. So social security needs to be left alone, except for a little more taxes needs to be collected. What else needs to be done? Society needs to do just about whatever it takes so that people have a decent life. The main thing is education. Education needs to be better in this country. Perhaps if people were smarter they would have better opinions and solutions to societies problems. More studies need to be done on how children/kids/teens learn and make decisions. They need to understand that the more education you have the better life you can have. Or that a good skill is important. Something needs to be done so that kids understand that school will end someday and that they will be on their own to make the best out of life that they can.

I am tired i will stop here. What I wrote are my thoughts as they have come to me. They are probably disorganized. I don't mean to flame, I just think there needs to be civil discourse and that when the crap hits the fan then the person on watch gets the credit or the blame. People in Washington need to be held responsiable for the mess the country is in. Some can say that it didn't happen over night, or that it didn't happen on my watch, but the real thing is that this country is in poor shape and something needs to be done about it. Good ideas need to come forward and this struggle for power needs to subside.
 

MidasKnight

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2004
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: isasir
Strange. I occasionally pop into P&N for the helluvit. I'm a registered Independent, but I vote Democratic 95% of the time, since I generally agree with their stance on things. What I find interesting is that, from my p&n n00b point of view, no one has answered the OPs question yet. I really hope there are some genuine answers to his question, otherwise the Dems got issues...

I was about to say the same thing.

I think maybe one person has answered the question and the others are deflecting or not answering it at all.

as per usual here for the liberals ......
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Zebo
In WWII President Roosevelt attacked Germany. Had he been a republican today the mainstream nedia would have eaten him alive for attacking a country that did not attack us.

Check your facts jack, Hitler attacked us.

He did? When?

IIRC, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the U.S. declared war against Japan, Hitler declared war against the U.S., then the U.S. declared war against Germany.

 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,352
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Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: daveymark
I never hear anything about what the Democrats stand for, all I hear is anti Bush rhetoric for the most part. Anyone?
That's about all they stand for...anti-Bush.
Here's a good example of someone who just read the original post and posted the usual knee-jerk response.
So what's your point?
That maybe you should actually read the thread before making a knee-jerk response post.
 

artikk

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2004
4,172
1
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Originally posted by: Zebo
In WWII President Roosevelt attacked Germany. Had he been a republican today the mainstream nedia would have eaten him alive for attacking a country that did not attack us.

Check your facts jack, Hitler attacked us.

Japan attacked us in Pearl Harbor(1941). Germany was agressive towards US in submarine warfare, not actual military operations.
 

Gigantopithecus

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2004
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Originally posted by: mribnik1
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
I've always been fiscally conservative and socially liberal. That's why I'm a Democrat, since the current Republican President is neither. At least with Kerry I got one.

And you know what? I'd bet the majority of the country is the same damn way. Problem is we had a choice between a douche and a turd sandwich for president (though the douche was a better pick IMO). Throw some moderates out there in '08 and the country wins.

Exactly.

Here's a non-exhaustive list of what I stand for:

Economic issues:
Keynesian capitalism. That basically boils down to moderately regulating commerce. Its aims are to limit, to an extent, economic disparity and a top-heavy distribution of wealth. This is the system under which our middle class seems to have fared the best, historically, though I am aware of its many criticisms (some of which are entirely valid). In my estimation, the Democrats fit this better than the neocons who run the Republican party. The Democrats are still a bit to the left of where I am, but the Republicans are far to the right - though there are leaders in both parties where I'd like to see them.

Limited government spending, control (hopefully elimination) of the deficit. Some social programs are worthy of government support - others are not. If research shows the programs accomplish their goals, for an amount of money we can agree is reasonable, keep 'em. If they don't, axe 'em and go back to the drawing board. We've got social scientists and any number of other analysts to do this. Democrats tend to embrace social programs uncritically, Republicans seem to think none of them are worth anything. Again, however, there are moderates on both sides I'd support on this issue.

The military: the military is currently bloated, inefficient, and more suited to fighting Soviet Russia than dudes in caves. In my opinion, we spend too much money on the military because we aren't efficient about it. Change is tough, but we should be prepared to have a military that changes with our enemies. I'm not sure either party really fits this.

Technology: technological innovation has long been a hallmark of this nation and drives our economy. This is one area I like to see the government fund and subsidize heavily. Republicans have a tendency to subsidize existing technologies, which is good, but Democrats have a tendency to be more open to funding pure research and unproven technologies, which is better.

Social issues:
I support the right of homosexuals to be married and raise/adopt children. I'd rather be raised by an educated gay couple with good jobs in a stable relationship than by two ignorant schemers who adopt kids to get another check from the government. Since Republicans currently pander to the religious right, obviously on this one I side with the Democrats.

Abortion: I am pro-choice through and through, and I think elective abortions should be funded by the government like any other medical procedure that's funded by the government. Again, that makes me a Democrat.

Education: I think education is the absolute most important social issue there is in any society. A society of ignoramuses incapable of independent thought does not make a good democracy. Therefore, I strongly support adequate funding for public schools, which is traditionally a Democratic rather than Republican stance. That said, I think one of the worst detractors of quality primary education in this country is a lack of good teachers, which I attribute in large part to unions, which Republicans work to erode (and in this case, I think is appropriate). Again, however, I find myself siding more with Democrats than Republicans because of the Republican party's pandering to the religious right, which wants to introduce creationism into our science classrooms. When all is said and done, I really go either way on the local level (the Republicans where I'm from aren't whores of the religious right) - but usually Democrat on the state and Federal level. (Local level controls the curriculum, state and Federal control the $$$.)

The death penalty: I'm pro-death penalty in theory but not in practice because I think our justice system is too flawed to be killing people. Just look at all of the post-execution exonerations accessible forensic DNA analysis has yielded - by my last count there were well over 300 across the nation. So, on this I go Democrat.

Crime & punishment: I tend to have a dim view of serious violent offenders, especially sex offenders. Social science and psychological/psychiatric research has shown our current rehabilitative techniques don't work on most violent & sex offenders, so for them I say lock 'em up and throw away the key. That's the view of Republicans. That said, most of our incarcerated (and we have more than any other country except China, iirc) are not violent, amoral predators - they're people who were raised in hopeless situations with no way out except illegal means. Many of these people can be rehabbed and made productive members of society with some investment (ie. education, training) - that while somewhat expensive, is cheaper than the cost of incarceration and recidivism. That's the view of Democrats.

That's what I stand for, that's why I consider myself a Democrat. Of course, I can and do support/vote for Republicans when they're more in line with my ideas than Democrat opponents. (I'll take a socially middle of the road Republican with conservative fiscal ideas any day over a flaming liberal - like those who think anyone with money stole it and such.)

The biggest wedge for me right now is the Republican Party's unholy alliance with the religious right, which wants to erode and destroy one of the cornerstone traditions of our society - separation of Church and State.
 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
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Originally posted by: Zebo
In WWII President Roosevelt attacked Germany. Had he been a republican today the mainstream nedia would have eaten him alive for attacking a country that did not attack us.

Check your facts jack, Hitler attacked us.

A few comments.
Follow the rules of the forum.


I will now quote someone who asked me to back up a statement.
Originally posted by: BBondDo you have ANY data to back up your assertions?

Or should we just take your word for it?


Now, I have looked, again...., for any reference to Hitler attacking the United States prior to our entering the war.
 

Gigantopithecus

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2004
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Nazi Germany attacked supply ships headed towards England flying our flag - but we declared war on them before they declared war on us.
 

oculus

Member
Jun 17, 2005
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Finally decided to register after lurking for years.

I don't have time at the moment to go into detail about the Democrats' stance on issues. I'd just like to make a point.

-> Too many people seem to categorize everyone into two holes, republican or democrat.

Ok, you've heard that line before? Fine. But the point is the anti-bush crowd is not the Democratic party. The anti-bush crowd exists only due to the circumstances of our world. Bush as has simply "brought together" many people from fundementally different groups.

So, the OP's question is absolutely legitimate. It is not clear at this time what Democrats in power want to do to improve the country other than react to Bush's stances (which are vague enough). They're not even consistent on being anti-bush.

Where am I going with this? try not to interchange Democrat, Liberal, and Anti-bush fanatic as if they are all the same thing.

I'm anti-bush, but you'll just have to trust me when I say I was also anti-kerry, and anti-democratic party. Wish people were more indepentent in their thinking... wish we could evolve past our two party mindset ... wish people respected the complexity of issues.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: oculus
Finally decided to register after lurking for years.

I don't have time at the moment to go into detail about the Democrats' stance on issues. I'd just like to make a point.

-> Too many people seem to categorize everyone into two holes, republican or democrat.

Ok, you've heard that line before? Fine. But the point is the anti-bush crowd is not the Democratic party. The anti-bush crowd exists only due to the circumstances of our world. Bush as has simply "brought together" many people from fundementally different groups.

So, the OP's question is absolutely legitimate. It is not clear at this time what Democrats in power want to do to improve the country other than react to Bush's stances (which are vague enough). They're not even consistent on being anti-bush.

Where am I going with this? try not to interchange Democrat, Liberal, and Anti-bush fanatic as if they are all the same thing.

I'm anti-bush, but you'll just have to trust me when I say I was also anti-kerry, and anti-democratic party. Wish people were more indepentent in their thinking... wish we could evolve past our two party mindset ... wish people respected the complexity of issues.

Oh, you're just being "elitistly nuanced."
 

Gigantopithecus

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2004
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Yeah, but why should people understand the complexity of issues when it's easier to just read People and watch 'reality' tv, and they can just dismiss ideas they don't like because, well, they just don't like them?
 

oculus

Member
Jun 17, 2005
118
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Originally posted by: daveymark
I never hear anything about what the Democrats stand for, all I hear is anti Bush rhetoric for the most part. Anyone?

Just wanted to add... if all your hear is anti-Bush rhetoric you're not listening. Not to say that what you're missing is enlightening words of wisdom that bolster their POV.

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of rhetoric, but that's what our politicians here in the USA are best at. Simply put, it's the mantra of this administration to repeat small chunks of words that don't mean much by themselves to help mask the intracasies of their true stance. That's why they've been so successful, i.e. some of the patriot act's details would never have become law if people in this country actually talked about ideas and issues, and not "gotta protect the homeland" rhetoric.

"all I hear is anti Bush rhetoric for the most part" Is quickly becoming (has become?) an unfair way to frame a conversation.
 

oculus

Member
Jun 17, 2005
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Damn, realized I might be falling into the trap of not adding real content to the conversation.

Here's one of my liberal stances:

1) Personal freedom should be limited only when you are infringing on another's freedom.

And another stance:

2) Now that our world knows the wonders of computers and efficient production of goods, there is enough efficiency in the world to provide education (including college) and health care to everyone. Additionally, the education system should place a heavy emphasis on critical thinking skills and understanding in how our country's political process works (local and federal).

Another?

3) The government should provide money to political candidates and almost all private contributions should be eliminated. If our government is so important and democratic, we shold be willing to spend the money to open it up to all.
 

irwincur

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2002
1,899
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IIRC, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the U.S. declared war against Japan, Hitler declared war against the U.S., then the U.S. declared war against Germany.

But, why did we attack Italy, Africa, the Phillapines, Borneo, and Burma if they never attacked us???

I don't get it, these countries did not attack us.
 

frankie38

Senior member
Nov 23, 2004
677
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1) the Washington DC Democrats stand for themselves. They are part of the establishment and they are now relagated to playing the part of the loyal minority party to the Powerful Washington Republicans.

2) More importantly, at the grass roots level. Democrats are reworking their message and targeting the growing immigrant population in the US. They are hoping that they can use this as a new base to put them back in power at the National level.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
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Simple. Correcting the great injustice of a lying president. Trying to stop the packing of courts with right wing nut cases, not to mention the U.N. Making people like Delay pay for their crimes against tax payers. Pointing out that there is no such thing as being "pro abortion" ( no one says "hey, lets kill some unborn today for fun" or "hey, I like getting pg so I can kill it"). But the bottom line... exposing the right wing hypocrites for what they are. Then, Democrats can move on to repairing the country and finding the 9 BILLION missing in Iraq (that Republicans don?t want you to know about, and will not look into).
Ps...And kicking Delays corrupt ass out of government service.

They're finally cleaning up after Clinton?

Seriously though, you have just admitted that they don't have any plans or answers. All they can do is blame someone else.

EDIT: Sorry I thought there was only 1 page of useless flaming here. I just read the other 3 pages and there are some good thoughts.

First off, to be fair to my earlier flaming, during the Clinton years (more of a fiscal conservative than Bush btw) the Republicans primarily stood for hindering the Dems and taking control of congress/presidency. In 96 (or 94?) they did that running on a campaign for smaller goverment, and sound morals. This suggests to me that the American people do appreciate solutions more than just flame wars.


RightIsWrong:
Two of the Republicans big issues lately are Energy independence (I can't find the facts to make this even remotly possible) and SS reform (which they are backing away from).

I agree with many of the posters here that the education system needs to be reformed. I feel that schools have just become large beurocratic babysitting corporations. Basic reading/writing/arithmetic/logic is necessary, but I made very few strides in those areas after 5th grade; The majority of my learning was rather specific innaplicable knoledge. I think that shifting high schools into the niche occupied by technical colleges would make it more interesting and provide useful skills to teens. This would only be part time as history, calculus and other traditional classes are very necessary.

 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
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Originally posted by: zebano

Seriously though, you have just admitted that they don't have any plans or answers. All they can do is blame someone else.

What are the Republican's plans? I'm just curious. I have read through flame after flame here about how the dems dont' have any plans and I have yet to figure out what the repubs plan is.

Tell me, they have this great plan for SS....what is it? Private accounts? How is it going to be implemented and funded and/or paid for?

They have this great plan for education....NCLB. How is it going to improve ALL schools and what if it is a failure? What is the contingency plan?

They have this great energy policy....What is it? Can we see who the architechs of it are so that we can ensure that they have the best interests of the American people and not corporate America in mind?

They have this great Medicare plan. How is it going to lower the cost of prescription drugs for Americans that are currently rising at a double digit % increase? Why can we not import from Canada to do that very thing?

They have this great plan for upholding the "Sanctity of Marriage". How is discriminating against millions of Americans a plan that is good for our country?

What is their plan to keep the "religious right" from continuing to infiltrate their party and get to the point where a coup is very possible and avoid us from becoming a theocracy?

Please enlighten us all as to what plans and ideas should look like.
 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
939
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Originally posted by: oculus
Finally decided to register after lurking for years.

I don't have time at the moment to go into detail about the Democrats' stance on issues. I'd just like to make a point.

-> Too many people seem to categorize everyone into two holes, republican or democrat.

Ok, you've heard that line before? Fine. But the point is the anti-bush crowd is not the Democratic party. The anti-bush crowd exists only due to the circumstances of our world. Bush as has simply "brought together" many people from fundementally different groups.

So, the OP's question is absolutely legitimate. It is not clear at this time what Democrats in power want to do to improve the country other than react to Bush's stances (which are vague enough). They're not even consistent on being anti-bush.

Where am I going with this? try not to interchange Democrat, Liberal, and Anti-bush fanatic as if they are all the same thing.

I'm anti-bush, but you'll just have to trust me when I say I was also anti-kerry, and anti-democratic party. Wish people were more indepentent in their thinking... wish we could evolve past our two party mindset ... wish people respected the complexity of issues.


Very well stated.

I did not support Bush. As Steve Forbes said, he runs as a Republican but spends like a Democrat.

Probably you also try to differentiate between liberal and democrat as well as conservative and republican. I was a democrat before I was a republican before I was a libertarian. However, I am more conservative than liberal primarily because of the willingness to tax and spend.

Resolving the mindset actually shouldn't be that hard, as long as we all begin eliminating one-sided media from our daily lives. Wait, it probably will be hard just not insurmountable.
 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
939
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Originally posted by: oculus
Damn, realized I might be falling into the trap of not adding real content to the conversation.

Here's one of my liberal stances:

1) Personal freedom should be limited only when you are infringing on another's freedom.

And another stance:

2) Now that our world knows the wonders of computers and efficient production of goods, there is enough efficiency in the world to provide education (including college) and health care to everyone. Additionally, the education system should place a heavy emphasis on critical thinking skills and understanding in how our country's political process works (local and federal).

Another?

3) The government should provide money to political candidates and almost all private contributions should be eliminated. If our government is so important and democratic, we shold be willing to spend the money to open it up to all.

#1 is also a conservative stance. See, no difference.

#2 is also a conservative stance. If the NEA would begin supporting critical thinking, as many private schools do, rather than a specific flavor of "diversity" we would all be better off. I suggest that given the many decades that the NEA has controlled the education that critical thinking will never be the goal of the government run schools.

#3 is not a conservative value. Conservatives believe in freedom of speech. We see from the McCain (a liberal republican) and Feingold that apparently not all liberals do. For additional "proof" add to this list "politically correct speech."

Hey, that we can show the other conservatives and liberals that on 2/3 issues we agree, that is a start.
 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
939
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0
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: zebano

Seriously though, you have just admitted that they don't have any plans or answers. All they can do is blame someone else.

What are the Republican's plans? I'm just curious. I have read through flame after flame here about how the dems dont' have any plans and I have yet to figure out what the repubs plan is.

Tell me, they have this great plan for SS....what is it? Private accounts? How is it going to be implemented and funded and/or paid for?

They have this great plan for education....NCLB. How is it going to improve ALL schools and what if it is a failure? What is the contingency plan?

They have this great energy policy....What is it? Can we see who the architechs of it are so that we can ensure that they have the best interests of the American people and not corporate America in mind?

They have this great Medicare plan. How is it going to lower the cost of prescription drugs for Americans that are currently rising at a double digit % increase? Why can we not import from Canada to do that very thing?

They have this great plan for upholding the "Sanctity of Marriage". How is discriminating against millions of Americans a plan that is good for our country?

What is their plan to keep the "religious right" from continuing to infiltrate their party and get to the point where a coup is very possible and avoid us from becoming a theocracy?

Please enlighten us all as to what plans and ideas should look like.



>Tell me, they have this great plan for SS....what is it? Private
>accounts? How is it going to be implemented and funded and/or
>paid for?
Notice that the democrats "fixed" SSN under clinton by raising taxes, cutting and postponing benefits. With this plan I can make both sides happy. Cut benefits to 10% of todays rate, postpone any payments until the individual is 100, cut SSN taxes to $0. The general fund will help. /sarcasm off

As for paying for it. I don't always believe in quick fixes since they are usually not the best. Cutting off a leg because of an infection that might take weeks to cure just doesn't seem reasonable to me. Thus, there will be some pain. Once we get through the rough times SSN should be in better shape that it is now. Do the democrats agree? Of course! They proposed a plan that is similar to the republican plan. The major differences is that individuals are FORCED to participate with a FIXED percentage rather than giving options.

One way we can pay for SSN is to stop using the SSN funds as discretionary funds and actually start paying back the fund "stolen" from it.


>They have this great plan for education....NCLB. How is it going
>to improve ALL schools and what if it is a failure? What is the
>contingency plan?
The NEA took over in the 60's. For simplicity, let us assume the original agency was not run by the democrats. For 40+ years our education has gotten worse under the same plan. May I suggest that we start educating the children. Start teaching them critical analysis and thinking again. Stop passing them on to the next grade if we have not taught them enough to even read. Allow competition.

Many of these are in the current "no child left behind" plan.



>They have this great energy policy....What is it? Can we see who
>the architechs of it are so that we can ensure that they have
>the best interests of the American people and not corporate
>America in mind?
See what I mean about the eductation system? You are blaming the republican party for the actions of environmentalists that, in case you missed it, are not exactly flocking to the republican party. Currently, there cheapest form of energy has us still dependent on oil and natural gas. No other form of energy comes close to being as economical. Even with todays prices.

As you can see, not only capitalistic societies but communist and fascist governments are still relying on those fuels. Once other forms, and they are being developed, become as econmical we will move to them.

In the meantime, those americans and corporate american businesses, as well as others around the world, are helping by making more efficent use of the same resources.


>They have this great plan for upholding the "Sanctity of Marriage".
>How is discriminating against millions of Americans a plan that
>is good for our country?
Even in liberal states such as California and Massechusetts the populace overwhelmingly has stated that marriage should be defined as being between a man and a woman. So, again, since even the democrats resist this very radical left movement why do you ONLY blame the republicans?

>What is their plan to keep the "religious right" from continuing
> to infiltrate their party and get to the point where a coup
>is very possible and avoid us from becoming a theocracy?
A true Democratic Republic and Capitalistic nation will never agree that the Government should rule the people.


Please enlighten us all as to what plans and ideas should look like.[/quote]
Your turn. You asked questions. Now answer the OP and tell us what the democrat plans are. Specifically address the failings since the 40's of the very liberal (not necessarily democrat party) agenda.
 

imported_tss4

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2004
1,607
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Originally posted by: maluckey
I have always felt that the Democrats are more short-term "About Me" thinkers, where the Republicans have always seemed to think a few years down the road, and more about right/wrong.

Here's a link to their (each party's) own words up until the 1970's as to what each party stood for.

A Conservative Organization, that beleives in church and state separation.

That might have used to been true, but both the party of "tax and spend" and the party of "borrow and spend" are short-term "About Me" thinkers.
 
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