What do you object to about Christianity?

[PhineasJWhoopee]

You and your bullshit imaginary god need to crawl into a hole and die.

Great sig.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Great sig.

I still love you, but you're human poison and everything would be better if you and your brand of crazy never existed.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

I still love you, but you're human poison and everything would be better if you and your brand of crazy never existed.

Righ back at you, but I don't mind that you exist.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Because?

http://www.amazon.com/Darwin-Hitler-.../dp/1403965021

From Darwin to Hitler elucidates the revolutionary impact Darwinism had on ethics and morality. Weikart demonstrates that many leading Darwinian biologists and social thinkers in Germany believed that Darwinism overturned traditional Judeo-Christian and Enlightenment ethics, especially the view that human life is sacred. Many of these thinkers supported moral relativism, yet simultaneously exalted evolutionary "fitness" (especially intelligence and health) as the highest arbiter of morality. Darwinism played a key role in the rise not only of eugenics, but also euthanasia, infanticide, abortion, and racial extermination. This thinking had its biggest impact on Germany, since Hitler built his view of ethics on Darwinian principles, not on nihilism as popularly believed.

Hitler was baptized Catholic and was never excommunicated; in fact, the Catholic Church largely supported him. He made several speeches referring to God. The party Programme of the NSDAP says, "The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity".

But it's totally irrelevant. This is another fallacious attempt to say that the lack of religion (or belief in Darwinian evolution) logically leads to moral atrocity, and it does not.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

It may be worthy of study, but not of practice. This is not an argument for religion's existence.

except the findings support the positive value of faith.

 

[Perknose]

It's people like you who give such a bad name to the regular, unassuming people of faith who simply have and follow their faith, keeping it in their heart, but who do not bait and troll and insistently push their world view on others.

These good people of faith are content to keep their light alive in their hearts and let the best of their loving ideals guide their actions towards others in a positive way without the need to exclude or condemn or put down anyone else for their beliefs, or lack thereof.

IF there is a God, "he" loves us ALL, no exceptions . . . NONE . . . and there is not one thing you have to do to be in "his" graces except not do harm to others but rather treat them as you would like to be treated, and find it in your heart to forgive yourself and others when you fall short.

That's it, that's all, and that's NOT you.

Because?

http://www.amazon.com/Darwin-Hitler-.../dp/1403965021

From Darwin to Hitler elucidates the revolutionary impact Darwinism had on ethics and morality. Weikart demonstrates that many leading Darwinian biologists and social thinkers in Germany believed that Darwinism overturned traditional Judeo-Christian and Enlightenment ethics, especially the view that human life is sacred. Many of these thinkers supported moral relativism, yet simultaneously exalted evolutionary "fitness" (especially intelligence and health) as the highest arbiter of morality. Darwinism played a key role in the rise not only of eugenics, but also euthanasia, infanticide, abortion, and racial extermination. This thinking had its biggest impact on Germany, since Hitler built his view of ethics on Darwinian principles, not on nihilism as popularly believed.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

except the findings support the positive value of faith.

The studies you linked do not support the point that faith itself helps a person make real sense of the world or human behavior, which was the discussion at hand. You also clearly did not even read or understand those papers, which is why you did not respond to a single point of my (largely incomplete) refutation. They do not cover spiritual belief.

Regardless, arguing value in utility is utterly hollow. Faith does not enable someone to do anything positive that cannot be done without it, but it certainly gives plenty of justification to those who want to do bad things in its name. At its heart, faith is a delusion by definition, and it's intellectually dishonest. You have not provided a single shred of contradictory evidence.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

IF there is a God, "he" loves us ALL, no exceptions . . . NONE . . . and there is not one thing you have to do to be in "his" graces except not do harm to others but rather treat them as you would like to be treated, and find it in your heart to forgive yourself and others when you fall short.

While I respect the drive of your post, I don't see how you can claim to know these hypothetical supernatural rules.

 

[PsiStar]

Regardless, arguing value in utility is utterly hollow. Faith does not enable someone to do anything positive that cannot be done without it, but it certainly gives plenty of justification to those who want to do bad things in its name. At its heart, faith is a delusion by definition, and it's intellectually dishonest. You have not provided a single shred of contradictory evidence.

Well worded

 

[Nik]

I actually don't have too much of a problem with Creationism itself, but more with the intention behind it. It's clearly an insidious attempt to use pseudo-science to undermine a rigorous and well-developed scientific theory so as to further the Christian world view.

I'm pretty sure Christianity (and religion in general) was created by non-nobles as a method to break out of their lower class standing to have control over other men (money, power, etc. that you weren't "allowed" to have as a pauper).

 

[Nik]

It's true.

And they didn't use "bible" or "Jesus"...they used "Creator".

Do some research on the people who wrote the documents, it's all easy to find. It's based on Christian principles, yet the gov't isn't allowed to interfere in Church affairs, and everyone is free to believe/practice what they want. Great system.

The problem is that "separation of church and state" means that the state can't interfere with the church, but it should also mean that the church cannot interfere with the state. Religion has absolutely no business being involved in government.

 

[Nik]

Do you think it's logical to reject a whole belief system just because of the way some proponents of that belief system behave?

When that belief system teaches them to behave that way, yes.

 

[Nik]

I would summarily reject any belief system that forbade to use my logic. I believe in the trinity because based on my reading and study, I thinks it biblical. Do I completely understand it? No.

...yet you believe in Christianity :awe:

You are a sensational troll.

What makes you think the Bible is anything more than a book of fairy tales with a few common city names and a few references to well-known historical figures?

Just because I write a book of fiction and name a few cities that exist in my time doesn't make those fictional stories true.

However, some dumbass in the future is probably going to read it and deem it holy and start a religion over it too just like the Bible I bet.

 

[Nik]

What part of Judeo-Christian thought told them it was OK to buy and sell people?

Don't mix concepts. Africans still buy/sell/trade slaves (their own people) to this day en masse. Chinese and many MANY other oriental countries still have slave trades.

Just because we did it for 100 years and got over ourselves doesn't mean Christianity is responsible for that too.

 

[Jeff7]

...
However, some dumbass in the future is probably going to read it and deem it holy and start a religion over it too just like the Bible I bet.

"Speaking in tongues" 1000 years from now will not involve any Latin or Hebrew; it'll be LOLSpeak. I can has teh awsum religionz.

 

[totalnoob]

I'm pretty sure Christianity (and religion in general) was created by non-nobles as a method to break out of their lower class standing to have control over other men (money, power, etc. that you weren't "allowed" to have as a pauper).

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Ephesians 6:5

"Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. 16Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. 17Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.

"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God." - 1 Peter 2:13-19

“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.” Romans 13:1-7

That's right folks. If you violated U.S. law and illegally freed slaves, you were sinning against God himself and deserve to burn in hell for it. Also, every German who took part in the resistance against Hitler (who was placed in power by God's will) is also currently roasting in hell for it. If you oppose the government, you are opposing God.

 

[Nik]

"Speaking in tongues" 1000 years from now will not involve any Latin or Hebrew; it'll be LOLSpeak. I can has teh awsum religionz.

I know, right? And some bumbling idiot is going to pontificate from his tookis about how l337 teh intartubes used to be and that we should all be inspired to be Tubular in His image.

 

[Nik]

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Ephesians 6:5

"Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. 16Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. 17Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.

"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God." - 1 Peter 2:13-19

“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.” Romans 13:1-7

That's right folks. If you violated U.S. law and illegally freed slaves, you were sinning against God himself, and deserve to burn in hell for it. Every German who took part in the resistance against Hitler (who was put in place by God) is currently burning in hell for opposing God's will.

Read it in the original text with a colloquial understanding of verbiage, noob. The Bible wasn't written in English.

That passage is referring to governments, like when Jesus was confronted with whether taxes are godly or not and he replied to render unto caesar that which is caesar's.

A modern application of this would be "obey state and federal law unless they conflict with god's law in which case you follow god's law. But if state/fed law doesn't conflict with god's law and you don't obey state/fed law, you're committing a sin."

I've been through seminary and have been honing my religious discussion skills on AT for a decade this month. Wanna play?

 

[Demon-Xanth]

The problem is that "separation of church and state" means that the state can't interfere with the church, but it should also mean that the church cannot interfere with the state. Religion has absolutely no business being involved in government.

I've always said that religion, business, and government should always be three separate entities. Whenever they start to merge bad things happen.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

I'm wondering if a Christian secretly invited Nik to this thread in order to kill it.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

I've always said that religion, business, and government should always be three separate entities. Whenever they start to merge bad things happen.

There is no way to completely separate religious belief from politics.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

PhineasJWhoopee,

How do videos like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moPIH15uki8 make you feel?

 

[Lifted]

I once had a conversation with my friend, who was a really into his cars, and even more into his religion. He was explaining to me how great Christianity is, that his parents showed him the right path from an early age, etc., and the conversation ended up taking the same route that this thread has.

After about 30 minutes of this, I decided to ask him a few questions about his cars.

Me: What's more important to you, religion or cars?
Friend: Religion.
Me: What brand of cars have your parents owned?
Friend: Ford.
Me: Have they always owned this brand?
Friend: Yes.
Me: Why have you have never owned owned a Ford.
Friend: They suck.
Me: So you blindly trust your parents choice in religion, but not cars? Seems odd for somebody that values religion more than cars.

That was the last I ever heard from him on religion.

 

[Nik]

I'm wondering if a Christian secretly invited Nik to this thread in order to kill it.

I can't wait for the trolling OP to reply so I can start disecting his view piece by piece. I'm almost salivating.

 

[totalnoob]

nikki, no amount of interpretation can change the verse in Romans into something it is not. Twist yourself into apologetic pretzels if you wish. The vast majority of theologians agree that it means what it says. God has dominion over everything, including earthly governments. If they do not violate his commandments, we are to submit to their authority.

The institution of slavery is never condemned as immoral in "God's word". There are no commands for the practice to be abolished. On the contrary, the Bible was one of the strongest tools people in the south used JUSTIFY the practice of slavery for many years. We both know what the old testament says about slavery.. God gives explicit instructions for how it was to be practiced, how men were allowed to sell their daughters into slavery, how much they were allowed to charge for slaves, how they were to mark slaves as property (by holding their head to the wall and driving a stake through their ear), how hard they were allowed to beat them, etc..but these passages were never very popular in early America. Instead people preferred the "kinder, gentler" wording of the New Testament..

"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. " - 1 Timothy 6:1-2

and this friendly parable from Jesus Christ himself..

""That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.." Luke 12:47-48

In the 10 commandments, instead of the first 4 or 5 that deal with God's vanity and jealousy of other gods, you'd think a perfect being would have slipped a little note in there about how it was wrong for one human being to own another. Unfortunately he did not.. And later, when God/Jesus had another perfect chance to impart some of his flawless morality on the subject, he instead gave us us a charming lesson about how hard slaves should be beaten for a particular offense..depending on whether they deliberately disobeyed their masters. How loving and compassionate..lolol

So tell me nik..Given that slavery is never repudiated in "God's word" (it is embraced in both the old and new testament)..and given that god himself said we are to submit to earthly authorities unless they violate any of his commandments, how exactly do you determine that those who broke the law of the land and rebelled against the "earthly authorities" in order to free slaves are NOT burning in hell?