What do you think of EAX?

[Canai]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Usually the people who think it makes no difference or isn't a big deal don't have their software/drivers set-up properly, aren't running the proper connections (like using sp/dif out), or don't have speakers/system that would benefit from EAX or a SB card.

Also some try it on onboard solutions and conclude there's no difference, which of course is invalid since many onboard solutions have lacking/incorrect implementations compared to Creative.

Since I use my PC for other things besides gaming, like music and movies, I care more about the sound quality than EAX, so Creative cards aren't an option for me.

The X-Fi series has very good playback for music and movies.

I would disagree with the last statement, X-Fi cards sound good, very good? I've heard many cards that sound better. My Razer sound card sounded better to my IMHO. I don't think unless you buy a ghetto no name sound card that you'd find a worse sounding card. Not saying X-Fi's sound bad, they don't, but they don't sound any better than a decent card.

The main difference between the Razer and X-Fi cards, at least I think, is that the Razer cards are designed for gaming. I got my X-Fi because it has a full suite if I/O options so I can run my MIDI stuff and my bass and RCA/Optical I/O on the front panel, and still have all the connections free in the back.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok
I'm an audio noob. My motherboard does have 7.1 output through spdif/optical out, I'm running the spdif to my receiver (a crappy 5.1 HTIB) and just want to make sure I'm actually getting surround sound in my games. (it seems I am) Can someone point me at a guide or something to look into learning more about sound in gaming/soundcards/etc.. I actually have an Audigy 2 sitting right in front of me (from an old system of mine) but I just don't know enough about audio to even begin.

Unless your onboard is SoundStorm or one of the few DDLive/DTS-Connect solutions out there, I highly doubt you have 7.1 output through spdif/optical out. Without some type of digital encoding solution, spdif via toslink or coax will just passthrough previously encoded digital signals, like a multi-channel movie soundtrack. Without any treatment or manipulation from hardware DSPs and multi-channel encoding you'll end up with PCM stereo which is then upmixed by your receiver. This is basically how Vista handles sound all the time now ultimately outputting a PCM stereo audio stream.

You'll still get some "surround sound" but its really only some form of Pro Logic where the stereo signal is spread/split/treated among your 5.1 speakers. This is like music on a CD, where you'll have surround sound on a 5.1 set-up but its not true positional sound. Also similar to DD vs. standard stereo (common on early DVDs) where you get sound from all 5 speakers with both, you just don't get the discrete channels and distinct positional sound with the stereo audio track compared to the Dolby Digital track.

If you're running Vista, it might not matter too much how you're connecting although you'll still get some driver-level sound management with analog compared to spdif which is just passed through as is. If you're running XP, you should definitely run via analog outputs unless you know for sure your onboard supports DDLive or DTS-Connect for real-time encoding.

As for guides, there's a good one for general A/V in the A/V forums but I don't think it covers gaming too much. But basically, for games you want the sound card to handle encoding/decoding, so you want to output via analog unless you have real-time encoding. For music/movies (digital stream already encoded), unless you know for sure your sound card has better DSP/DAC than your receiver, you'll want to run s/pdif passthrough and let your receiver handle the decoding. You can also run both simultaneously and just designate via software how you output on a program-by-program basis.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
whenever i enable EAX, i get a tinny or hollow sound. a lot of times dialogue or gunfire is very low compared to the rest of the sounds. i get all sorts of problems...any idea what i'm doing wrong?

Open creative control panel > CMSS 3d tab > CMSS Modes > disable CMSS

Disabling CMSS may not be a good idea depending on your speaker setup.

In addition, make sure to re-calibrate settings in-game and even in the console if needed. You may need to adjust individual volume sliders for instance. Keep in mind, things like sound effects and voices can be positional, but typically ambient music and game sounds are not. With EAX many times a loud voice or sound effect will become distant sounding depending on its relative positon to you. This is normal but you may need to adjust other game/music sounds so they don't overpower or obscure positional sound effects all the time. You may also need to adjust your in-game Windows master volume lower and then increase the master volume on your receiver.

After you've set relative volume levels, you can use the Console Equalizer and EAX controls to clean up anything else that's bothering you. Tinny or hollow sound is probably just over-aggressive reverb. You can try to reduce this by adjust the EAX effect dB levels and by increasing bass and mid-range and reducing treble/high-range on the EQ. Also, make sure to enable Bass Redirection and play with your Crossover Frequency to match your satellites. In your Windows speaker configuration setting, also make sure to uncheck "Full Range" speakers if your speakers are satellites and cannot handle low frequency ranges otherwise they'll just eat your Bass and nothing will get routed to your Subwoofer.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Usually the people who think it makes no difference or isn't a big deal don't have their software/drivers set-up properly, aren't running the proper connections (like using sp/dif out), or don't have speakers/system that would benefit from EAX or a SB card.

Also some try it on onboard solutions and conclude there's no difference, which of course is invalid since many onboard solutions have lacking/incorrect implementations compared to Creative.

Since I use my PC for other things besides gaming, like music and movies, I care more about the sound quality than EAX, so Creative cards aren't an option for me.

The X-Fi series has very good playback for music and movies.

I would disagree with the last statement, X-Fi cards sound good, very good? I've heard many cards that sound better. My Razer sound card sounded better to my IMHO. I don't think unless you buy a ghetto no name sound card that you'd find a worse sounding card. Not saying X-Fi's sound bad, they don't, but they don't sound any better than a decent card.

Again, I have to wonder if you've actually heard an X-Fi at all, and if you did, if it was set-up properly. The X-Fi uses the high-quality 8-channel Cirrus Logic CS4382 DAC which is as good as most consumer level cards and certainly better than anything you'll find in an onboard solution. If that's not good enough for you there's also the Elite Pro version which uses four higher-end 2-channel Cirrus Logic DACs which are also found on professional level sound cards. All versions of the X-Fi also use 3 x ST Micro's ST 4558CN op amps which are good enough quality that some enthusiasts went as far as to solder them onto their older Audigys in the past. And that's all assuming you're actually running analog outputs instead of an s/pdif connection and letting your receiver do all of the decoding and digital to analog conversions.

 

[Nebor]

Yes, EAX makes a big difference. Too bad it's such a pain getting it to work in Vista. No one but a techie will even know Alchemy exists.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
whenever i enable EAX, i get a tinny or hollow sound. a lot of times dialogue or gunfire is very low compared to the rest of the sounds. i get all sorts of problems...any idea what i'm doing wrong?

Open creative control panel > CMSS 3d tab > CMSS Modes > disable CMSS

Disabling CMSS may not be a good idea depending on your speaker setup.

In addition, make sure to re-calibrate settings in-game and even in the console if needed. You may need to adjust individual volume sliders for instance. Keep in mind, things like sound effects and voices can be positional, but typically ambient music and game sounds are not. With EAX many times a loud voice or sound effect will become distant sounding depending on its relative positon to you. This is normal but you may need to adjust other game/music sounds so they don't overpower or obscure positional sound effects all the time. You may also need to adjust your in-game Windows master volume lower and then increase the master volume on your receiver.

After you've set relative volume levels, you can use the Console Equalizer and EAX controls to clean up anything else that's bothering you. Tinny or hollow sound is probably just over-aggressive reverb. You can try to reduce this by adjust the EAX effect dB levels and by increasing bass and mid-range and reducing treble/high-range on the EQ. Also, make sure to enable Bass Redirection and play with your Crossover Frequency to match your satellites. In your Windows speaker configuration setting, also make sure to uncheck "Full Range" speakers if your speakers are satellites and cannot handle low frequency ranges otherwise they'll just eat your Bass and nothing will get routed to your Subwoofer.

thanks guys...i'll work on it and let you know how it turns out.

 

[BFG10K]

I would disagree with the last statement, X-Fi cards sound good, very good? I've heard many cards that sound better. My Razer sound card sounded better to my IMHO.

The M-Audio Revolution is considered one of the gold standard sound cards and the X-Fi compares very favorably to it.

whenever i enable EAX, i get a tinny or hollow sound. a lot of times dialogue or gunfire is very low compared to the rest of the sounds.

In the audio console under gaming mode enable SVM. This setting will normalize sounds in real-time and try to keep them at the same level. Also be sure to only use gaming mode when gaming.

 

[shingletingle]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

I would disagree with the last statement, X-Fi cards sound good, very good? I've heard many cards that sound better. My Razer sound card sounded better to my IMHO.

The M-Audio Revolution is considered one of the gold standard sound cards and the X-Fi compares very favorably to it.

whenever i enable EAX, i get a tinny or hollow sound. a lot of times dialogue or gunfire is very low compared to the rest of the sounds.

In the audio console under gaming mode enable SVM. This setting will normalize sounds in real-time and try to keep them at the same level. Also be sure to only use gaming mode when gaming.

Yeah, that's pretty bad advice unless your goal is to ruin the authentic sound.

 

[BFG10K]

Yeah, that's pretty bad advice unless your goal is to ruin the authentic sound.

Huh? It doesn't ruin anything in games. Most games don't have normalized sound and it's quite common for some sounds to be much lower than others. SVM fixes that to some degree.

Quiet sounds are still quiet while loud sounds are still loud but it reduces the gap between them so you don't have to crank the volume for speech and then lower it for explosions.

 

[Acanthus]

$2 azalia sound with decent codec > any add-in crap for over 25x the cost.

Unless of course youre magic and can hear the difference in SnR.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
$2 azalia sound with decent codec > any add-in crap for over 25x the cost.

Uh no, unless you're using a comparably low-budget speaker or headset solution.

Unless of course youre magic and can hear the difference in SnR.

SnR is the least of its problems, as it also suffers from high THD and IMD+Noise:

Audigy 4 vs Barracuda vs Realtek HDA
Combined with other variables like weak integrated op amps, lower dynamic range, poor frequency response and you end up having to crank up the volume to achieve similar levels of sound to an add-in solution but end up getting more noise and distortion in the process.

There's myriad other reviews that show onboard is still far inferior to most discrete add-in solutions, but the reality is most people aren't going to listen to both and compare the difference. And yes, I have listened to both on the same system not by choice, but because my X-Fi didn't work with 4GB installed. Onboard HD Azalia is certainly nice compared to previous solutions like AC '97 with some of the older Realtek chipsets (even if it jacked up the cost of my board by ~$30), but it still pales in comparison to the best add-in solutions out there.

I think this thread proves Creative haters will hate just to hate even if its been years since they used or heard a Sound Blaster, but you clearly get what you pay for when it comes to PC sound.

 

[Oyeve]

I am not belittling anyone, but does everyone know what EAX is and the differences between versions? There are quite a bit of difs. While I dont love nor dislike CL and their corner on the market, you have to hand it to them. I have been a CL consumer since there first GameBlaster card from 20 years ago. When they had ONE support guy for the whole company. When their 8-bit MONO card was 400 bucks, when their 1x CDrom drive was 500 bucks and throughout the years they have managed to make their cards better cheaper and havent bullied any other card companies. Yes, they made a lot of crappy series of cards, but ya gotta admit, they know there shit. Adlib was good way back and was actually the first SC company, Disney (yes disney) had their sound box, external and only worked with a few games. Roland made MIDI daughter boards for SB. Good times. EAX is innovative, it may not be the best to some, but hey, I dont see any other company doing squat. And CL can shovel crap out the factory and it will sell, but they dont, (usually). So lets cheer CL and their SB cards and chastize the SW companies that dont know how to use the HW we spend $$$ on.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Yeah, that's pretty bad advice unless your goal is to ruin the authentic sound.

Huh? It doesn't ruin anything in games. Most games don't have normalized sound and it's quite common for some sounds to be much lower than others. SVM fixes that to some degree.

Quiet sounds are still quiet while loud sounds are still loud but it reduces the gap between them so you don't have to crank the volume for speech and then lower it for explosions.

That's ruining the sound. You could make the same argument for movies, and you'd still be ruining the sound by screwing up the dynamic range. Those voices are supposed to be really quiet compared to an explosion. I play with the volume up high, just like I watch my movies. If I can't for some reason, I use Sennheiser wireless headphones.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Acanthus
$2 azalia sound with decent codec > any add-in crap for over 25x the cost.

Uh no, unless you're using a comparably low-budget speaker or headset solution.

Unless of course youre magic and can hear the difference in SnR.

SnR is the least of its problems, as it also suffers from high THD and IMD+Noise:

Audigy 4 vs Barracuda vs Realtek HDA
Combined with other variables like weak integrated op amps, lower dynamic range, poor frequency response and you end up having to crank up the volume to achieve similar levels of sound to an add-in solution but end up getting more noise and distortion in the process.

There's myriad other reviews that show onboard is still far inferior to most discrete add-in solutions, but the reality is most people aren't going to listen to both and compare the difference. And yes, I have listened to both on the same system not by choice, but because my X-Fi didn't work with 4GB installed. Onboard HD Azalia is certainly nice compared to previous solutions like AC '97 with some of the older Realtek chipsets (even if it jacked up the cost of my board by ~$30), but it still pales in comparison to the best add-in solutions out there.

I think this thread proves Creative haters will hate just to hate even if its been years since they used or heard a Sound Blaster, but you clearly get what you pay for when it comes to PC sound.

I also listened to them subjectively side by side and found there to be no noticable difference. Hence why i no longer own an X-Fi.

Go buy some monster cables

Wasnt creative recently delisted from Nasdaq?

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Acanthus
$2 azalia sound with decent codec > any add-in crap for over 25x the cost.

Uh no, unless you're using a comparably low-budget speaker or headset solution.

Unless of course youre magic and can hear the difference in SnR.

SnR is the least of its problems, as it also suffers from high THD and IMD+Noise:

Audigy 4 vs Barracuda vs Realtek HDA
Combined with other variables like weak integrated op amps, lower dynamic range, poor frequency response and you end up having to crank up the volume to achieve similar levels of sound to an add-in solution but end up getting more noise and distortion in the process.

There's myriad other reviews that show onboard is still far inferior to most discrete add-in solutions, but the reality is most people aren't going to listen to both and compare the difference. And yes, I have listened to both on the same system not by choice, but because my X-Fi didn't work with 4GB installed. Onboard HD Azalia is certainly nice compared to previous solutions like AC '97 with some of the older Realtek chipsets (even if it jacked up the cost of my board by ~$30), but it still pales in comparison to the best add-in solutions out there.

I think this thread proves Creative haters will hate just to hate even if its been years since they used or heard a Sound Blaster, but you clearly get what you pay for when it comes to PC sound.

I also listened to them subjectively side by side and found there to be no noticable difference. Hence why i no longer own an X-Fi.

Let me guess, you plugged in the s/pdif connections and wondered why you weren't getting l337 surround sound amirite? Or had full range dynamic range selected for your 2.1 channel powered speakers with 1" titanium tweeters. :roll:

Go buy some monster cables

The difference is I can pull apart monster cables and the same cable from monoprice and see they're physically the same. The same cannot be said for a dinky onboard integrated chipset and an add-in card.

Wasnt creative recently delisted from Nasdaq?

And what does that have to do with anything? Not to mention Creative isn't even a US-based company......

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Wasnt creative recently delisted from Nasdaq?

I believe that was voluntary (for the most part), they had low volume trading + the hassles of being on the Nasdaq was not worth it for them.

 

[BFG10K]

That's ruining the sound.

No it isn't. He stated he doesn't like large volume fluctuations so I explained a possible solution.

I've found my gaming has been enhanced because it brings up softer ambient sounds and makes games more immersive, plus it?s easier to hear speech without being deafened by loud sounds like explosions.

Again there are still loud and soft sounds, the gap just isn?t as large.

You could make the same argument for movies, and you'd still be ruining the sound by screwing up the dynamic range.

I don?t enjoy having to constantly fiddle with the volume knob because it ruins immersion.

That and games' sounds seldom get checked the same way movies or music so it's quite possible to get sounds with very large volume fluctuations, well in excess of what they should be.

Those voices are supposed to be really quiet compared to an explosion.

Not to the degree that many games have because again, their sound interaction isn't checked like it is with movies or music.

I play with the volume up high, just like I watch my movies. If I can't for some reason, I use Sennheiser wireless headphones.

Some of us want to preserve our hearing.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Acanthus
$2 azalia sound with decent codec > any add-in crap for over 25x the cost.

Uh no, unless you're using a comparably low-budget speaker or headset solution.

Unless of course youre magic and can hear the difference in SnR.

SnR is the least of its problems, as it also suffers from high THD and IMD+Noise:

Audigy 4 vs Barracuda vs Realtek HDA
Combined with other variables like weak integrated op amps, lower dynamic range, poor frequency response and you end up having to crank up the volume to achieve similar levels of sound to an add-in solution but end up getting more noise and distortion in the process.

There's myriad other reviews that show onboard is still far inferior to most discrete add-in solutions, but the reality is most people aren't going to listen to both and compare the difference. And yes, I have listened to both on the same system not by choice, but because my X-Fi didn't work with 4GB installed. Onboard HD Azalia is certainly nice compared to previous solutions like AC '97 with some of the older Realtek chipsets (even if it jacked up the cost of my board by ~$30), but it still pales in comparison to the best add-in solutions out there.

I think this thread proves Creative haters will hate just to hate even if its been years since they used or heard a Sound Blaster, but you clearly get what you pay for when it comes to PC sound.

I also listened to them subjectively side by side and found there to be no noticable difference. Hence why i no longer own an X-Fi.

Let me guess, you plugged in the s/pdif connections and wondered why you weren't getting l337 surround sound amirite? Or had full range dynamic range selected for your 2.1 channel powered speakers with 1" titanium tweeters. :roll:

Go buy some monster cables

The difference is I can pull apart monster cables and the same cable from monoprice and see they're physically the same. The same cannot be said for a dinky onboard integrated chipset and an add-in card.

Wasnt creative recently delisted from Nasdaq?

And what does that have to do with anything? Not to mention Creative isn't even a US-based company......

It has a lot to do with anything... no one is buying their "obviously fantastic product".

 

[hooflung]

http://www.soundblaster.com/eax/gaming/gamelist.asp

No, there isn't a single game on that list that I can't run without worrying about my intel/realtek hd killing my fps. My other machine has an audigy 2 zs which replaced the venerable envy24 ht-s ( which went into my htpc ). I have never had EAX make a rats ass difference and curse the day I bought the zx because it decreased the sound quality of music and did jack all to my FPS. Hell, the games I have on that list... Quake 4, SWG, JK2, JK3, EQ2, Doom 3, AVP...

Nothing my EAX has that makes it worth a damn. Not to mention EAX is loosing its mojo and game companies are using software engines because its more flexible. Pretty much EAX stopped pushing forward when Half-Life 2 decided to use software. Also, City of Heroes has Creative logos everywhere, but they don't actually use EAX afaik. Meh, whatever makes people feel better about their decisions at night with how they spent their money.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Acanthus
$2 azalia sound with decent codec > any add-in crap for over 25x the cost.

Uh no, unless you're using a comparably low-budget speaker or headset solution.

Unless of course youre magic and can hear the difference in SnR.

SnR is the least of its problems, as it also suffers from high THD and IMD+Noise:

Audigy 4 vs Barracuda vs Realtek HDA
Combined with other variables like weak integrated op amps, lower dynamic range, poor frequency response and you end up having to crank up the volume to achieve similar levels of sound to an add-in solution but end up getting more noise and distortion in the process.

There's myriad other reviews that show onboard is still far inferior to most discrete add-in solutions, but the reality is most people aren't going to listen to both and compare the difference. And yes, I have listened to both on the same system not by choice, but because my X-Fi didn't work with 4GB installed. Onboard HD Azalia is certainly nice compared to previous solutions like AC '97 with some of the older Realtek chipsets (even if it jacked up the cost of my board by ~$30), but it still pales in comparison to the best add-in solutions out there.

I think this thread proves Creative haters will hate just to hate even if its been years since they used or heard a Sound Blaster, but you clearly get what you pay for when it comes to PC sound.

I also listened to them subjectively side by side and found there to be no noticable difference. Hence why i no longer own an X-Fi.

Let me guess, you plugged in the s/pdif connections and wondered why you weren't getting l337 surround sound amirite? Or had full range dynamic range selected for your 2.1 channel powered speakers with 1" titanium tweeters. :roll:

Go buy some monster cables

The difference is I can pull apart monster cables and the same cable from monoprice and see they're physically the same. The same cannot be said for a dinky onboard integrated chipset and an add-in card.

Wasnt creative recently delisted from Nasdaq?

And what does that have to do with anything? Not to mention Creative isn't even a US-based company......

It has a lot to do with anything... no one is buying their "obviously fantastic product".

ROFL, people who take PC sound seriously buy their product, there just isn't enough product differentiation in the sound card market to upgrade as frequently as other components like a GPU, CPU, motherboard or even RAM. Increasingly capable onboard solutions has definitely made the situation worst for Creative, since you're no longer required to buy a sound card to get more than beeps and buzzes from an internal speaker. But onboard is still a far cry from a dedicated add-in card in terms of sound quality and hardware capabilities and you won't find a credible publication stating otherwise (just pull up ANY review of the X-Fi or one of the better alternatives out there). Sluggish sound card sales and the inability to penetrate other markets has hurt Creative but that doesn't mean their sound cards aren't vastly superior than anything you'll find in an onboard solution:

AT's write-up of Creative's recent problems

From the article:

The Live and Audigy series have both been bonafide successes in terms of sales, but never the less sales are slowing and the X-Fi likely won't be nearly as successful. The fact of the matter is that the consumer sound card market is on its last leg and the possible user base for such hardware has shrunk to professionals and gamers, and that's it.

I guess they should've expanded that category of user base to include a third group that fall into the "Creative haters that don't know how to properly set-up a Sound Blaster or don't think its worth it to invest in a good sound solution."

To put it bluntly, you'd have to be deaf to ignore the difference between current onboard sound solutions and an X-Fi in an EAX enabled game on a quality sound system or pair of headphones. If you can't hear the difference, you need to look into what YOU are doing wrong (using the proper analog connections instead of s/pdif out would be a good start).

 

[QueBert]

to chizow, I bought my GF an X-Fi for her birthday, it sounds good but I'm not sold on them beyond good. With my 2 ears my Razer sounds better, not "OMFWTFBBQSAUCE!" better but I can notice subtle difference when I listen to jazz on the 2. Maybe my ears are deceiving me, but for me the Razer is just bad ass.

 

[hooflung]

On 2 channel analog or 7.1 via digital IO my Chaintech AV-710 spanks the living shit out of my Audigy 2 ZS in any mode.

I mean, it doesn't even compare for the 25 bucks. It also handles well and via drivers are rock solid.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: QueBert
to chizow, I bought my GF an X-Fi for her birthday, it sounds good but I'm not sold on them beyond good. With my 2 ears my Razer sounds better, not "OMFWTFBBQSAUCE!" better but I can notice subtle difference when I listen to jazz on the 2. Maybe my ears are deceiving me, but for me the Razer is just bad ass.

You didn't happen to buy your GF the same receiver/speakers or headphones that you use did you? Listen to the same music and movies, played the same games? Again, flawed and subjective tests or user-error leading to blanket statements.

In the case of music its no surprise the X-Fi doesn't distinguish itself from any other add-in solution with quality components because there's only so much you can do with 16-bit stereo (CD quality) sound. I never claimed otherwise. But its certainly not going to be any worst given the fact it sports better or similar components than anything else on consumer-grade card and offers more control via drivers/software as well. Any published review with both synthetic and subjective test results will substantiate this.

Same for movies, if you're even using the DSP to decode and DAC to output a multi-channel movie soundtrack via analog connections. The X-Fi supports DD-EX and DTS-ES as well as THX. No matter what you think of THX itself and whether its worth it or not doesn't change the fact THX does not lend its brand to products lightly (or cheaply). However, most with a DD/DTS receiver will simply use s/pdif passthrough because its easier and in that case movies will sound the same whether you're using an X-Fi or onboard unless you have some serious EMI or interference before the signal hits the coax/toslink cable.

That only leaves games where there would be a noticeable difference and in this area a Sound Blaster card has always excelled. Unlike music and movies where the goal is to produce sound as close as possible to the original track, positional and spatial effects in games rely on manipulation of the original sound. This is why Creative and EAX has always maintained an edge in games, since they have proprietary hardware and software supported by game devs who program extensions specifically for their hardware. This isn't a Monster cable thing like a previous poster suggested, because the 100 million transistors that allow for hardware accelerated effects like 128 hardware voices simply can't be faked or imitated.

 

[AMDZen]

It amazes me that chizow, with a few other exceptions, is the only one here who knows what he/she's talking about. X-Fi is a solid card, maybe not as good as some more expensive cards but I got my Xtreme Gamer card on sale for less then $50 and It is, BY FAR, the best sound card I've ever had or heard.

I currently have a ChainTech AV-710 in my HTPC, but used to have an Abit NF7-S 2.0 board with the SoundStorm which I recently gave to my sister. The Chaintech isn't as good in movies as my SoundStorm, and my X-Fi is the first card I've heard that compares to the SoundStorm. No other onboard solutions are even very good, much less close to the X-Fi. And lastly, Chaintech doesn't even make or sell the AV-710 any longer. Not sure why as it is a decent card for the price

 

[Acanthus]

We will just have to agree to disagree Chizow.

If i cant hear the difference, im not going to turn to digital tools to see which is better. They sound the same in my book.

That being said, looking at the prices ($5 or less vs $50+), creatives wonderful drivers, and now questionable warranty service if the company tanks, its not a buy.

edit: spelling