What do you think of this pie chart (average US household expenses)?

[Genx87]

I rest my case. Single coverage premiums cost about 1/4th of what family coverage premiums cost per month.

Apples and oranges.

What case were you making?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

This is household health costs. My wife has a cadillac plan that only had her paying 17 bucks a month. As a household our total medical costs last year were mine + her 17*12.

 

[Farang]

Then you also need to add in that as compensation on the other side.

If I added the value of my health plan as both compensation and expenditure, it would then be over21% of my total expenses. I'm a healthy young man who has been to the doctor once in the past two years.

What this chart is missing is the 75% employer paid, as well as the income that 75% counts as.

edit: my math was wrong, edited to 21%

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

What case were you making?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I'm not sure what case you were making. You claimed my numbers weren't "typical" for your average middle class American family. I would reckon they are.

This is household health costs. My wife has a cadillac plan that only had her paying 17 bucks a month. As a household our total medical costs last year were mine + her 17*12.

I would say that your situation is atypical. $17 a month for a "Cadillac" plan? Must be a public sector union employee.

Are any of your plans family plans? Or do you have two single plans? Again, if you both have single plans, you are comparing apples to oranges. Family coverage is significantly more expensive than single coverage. I know. I went from single coverage to family coverage. The cost increase in my insurance premiums was about $250-$300 (about 3x to 4x more expensive) a month. And that's only the part I pay.

 

[Genx87]

If I added the value of my health plan as both compensation and expenditure, it would then be about 26% of my total expenses. I'm a healthy young man who has been to the doctor once in the past two years.

What this chart is missing is the 75% employer paid, as well as the income that 75% counts as.

That would because it isnt direct compensation obviously. They are taking an avg hosuehold's take home income and dividing up the spending.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

I know this sounds quite liberal of me but...

1) Like NYC, every menu item should have the calorie count listed next to it.
2) I would seriously like to explore the idea of a fast-food fat tax on everything from potato chips to french fries to Coca-Cola, etc. Every cent earned goes to some massive healthcare fund. I mean, can we really have a healthcare debate without looking at one of the biggest root causes of disease in this country?

Personal responsibility???
I eat at fast food maybe once a week now. Should I have to pay extra taxes for that? No. Taxing is not going to stop bad behaviour.

 

[Genx87]

I'm not sure what case you were making. You claimed my numbers weren't "typical" for your average middle class American family. I would reckon they are.

Doesnt your wife have some pre-existing condition and you lost your job????

I would say that your situation is atypical. $17 a month for a "Cadillac" plan? Must be a public sector union employee.

Are any of your plans family plans? Or do you have two single plans? Again, if you both have single plans, you are comparing apples to oranges. Family coverage is significantly more expensive than single coverage. I know. I went from single coverage to family coverage. The cost increase in my insurance premiums was about $250-$300 a month. And that's only the part I pay.

I know what the cost of my family plan is and it is 120\month with double my deductible. Basically double up my plan.
My wife works for a not for profit health provider. About as close as one gets to being a public employee without being one

 

[Zorba]

I didn't see interest payments on the cart for all the credit card debit people carry. Maybe that is thrown in to each category?

 

[Farang]

That would because it isnt direct compensation obviously. They are taking an avg hosuehold's take home income and dividing up the spending.

I understand that but I'm saying you shouldn't use this to analyze the cost of health care because most of that cost is not from take home income. So if you want to compare health care to, say, entertainment, you need to include health care compensation and spending completely. That means calculating your employer's contribution as take home pay (which it essentially is, even if it never hits your pocket) and as an expenditure for the whole of the plan.

When you say you're paying $17 a month or whatever that really isn't true. Your employer is paying hundreds of dollars a month, if not over a thousand for a cadillac plan. This is a cost to you because your wages are lower than they otherwise would be, as the cost to your employer of your healthcare skews the demand curve.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Doesnt your wife have some pre-existing condition and you lost your job????

You are assuming things from examples I provided in a past thread. It is not a good idea to assume. I fail to see what my (assumed) situation has to do with this discussion, however.

I know what the cost of my family plan is and it is 120\month with double my deductible. Basically double up my plan.
My wife works for a not for profit health provider. About as close as one gets to being a public employee without being one

Again, I can fairly confidently say that your situation is atypical to the average middle class American. I'd reckon that most middle class Americans pay closer (or more) to what I pay for coverage than what you do.

 

[alphatarget1]

I know this sounds quite liberal of me but...

1) Like NYC, every menu item should have the calorie count listed next to it.
2) I would seriously like to explore the idea of a fast-food fat tax on everything from potato chips to french fries to Coca-Cola, etc. Every cent earned goes to some massive healthcare fund. I mean, can we really have a healthcare debate without looking at one of the biggest root causes of disease in this country?

1) Agreed.
2) Allow insurance (be it government or private run) to charge fat people more $$$ for premium based on assessments from doctors unless they enroll in classes that teach them how to live healthier.

 

[Zorba]

9K/yr for transportation seem WAYYYYY high. Im assuming that insurance is covered in the insurance category, even so thats 4500 per year per car that the average person is spending?


Everything else seems OK.

A 30K car with a 5 year loan would have more the 6K in payments a year. So if people bought 1 new car every 5 years (i.e. keep each car for 10 years), you are easily over that number. Just remember it is an average of all people, and all people as a collective are stupid and wasteful.

 

[Genx87]

You are assuming things from examples I provided in a past thread. It is not a good idea to assume. I fail to see what my (assumed) situation has to do with this discussion, however.

Was I wrong???? That is why I said your situation is not typical. If that isnt your situation then accept my apologies.

Again, I can fairly confidently say that your situation is atypical to the average middle class American. I'd reckon that most middle class Americans pay closer (or more) to what I pay for coverage than what you do.

Maybe, but the pie chart in this thread isnt showing it.

 

[Slew Foot]

A 30K car with a 5 year loan would have more the 6K in payments a year. So if people bought 1 new car every 5 years (i.e. keep each car for 10 years), you are easily over that number. Just remember it is an average of all people, and all people as a collective are stupid and wasteful.

Yeah no kidding, what a guy making 60K/yr buying a 30K car for?

 

[ElFenix]

lol at calling shens on a pie chart showing the average american and using your one single data point to refute it.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

lol at calling shens on a pie chart showing the average american and using your one single data point to refute it.

Right, because I have never discussed health care issues with anybody else or compared coverages offered by other companies. No sir.

 

[ElFenix]

Right, because I have never discussed health care issues with anybody else or compared coverages offered by other companies. No sir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm

"The average cost of a family policy offered by employers was $13,375 this year, up 5% from 2008, the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust survey found. By comparison, wages rose 3% over that period, the study said.

As insurance costs increase, workers are also picking up a larger share, the survey found. The average employee with family coverage paid 26% of the premium, the study found, but 41% of companies said they are "very likely" or "somewhat likely" to increase the amount employees pay for coverage in the next year."

26% (the average % an employee pays for family coverage) of $13,375 is $3477.50. Divided by 12 months to get the monthly premium amount that the employee pays is about $290. Very close to what I pay.

Oops...looks like my numbers are pretty close to average according to what studies show. "Anecdotal" indeed.

 

[daishi5]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm

"The average cost of a family policy offered by employers was $13,375 this year, up 5% from 2008, the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust survey found. By comparison, wages rose 3% over that period, the study said.

As insurance costs increase, workers are also picking up a larger share, the survey found. The average employee with family coverage paid 26% of the premium, the study found, but 41% of companies said they are "very likely" or "somewhat likely" to increase the amount employees pay for coverage in the next year."

26% (the average % an employee pays for family coverage) of $13,375 is $3477.50. Divided by 12 months to get the monthly premium amount that the employee pays is about $290. Very close to what I pay.

Oops...looks like my numbers are pretty close to average according to what studies show. "Anecdotal" indeed.

Average expenditure is 3477.50 on insurance (total paid over total households paying), add in all the people who don't spend money on insurance (total paid over total households) and I think the number seems reasonable.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Average expenditure is 3477.50 on insurance (total paid over total households paying), add in all the people who don't spend money on insurance (total paid over total households) and I think the number seems reasonable.

I can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me, but I'm sure the study took into account people who pay very little/nothing for insurance and people who pay more/a lot for insurance to come up with the average.

I was just posting proof to back up my claims that my numbers weren't "anecdotal" and were pretty close to the truth for the "average" middle class American.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

$2.90 per day per person isn't absurd for entertainment.

 

[piasabird]

First of all with many employers if you have a family, often the company only pays for the healthcare of the Employee and it costs extra to insure the rest of the family. I dont know how common a practice this is. I have seen it while working at a factory and for a community college. Then of course there is the health Care copays and whatever your insurance will not pay for, and also for over the counter health care items like asprin, cold medicine, cough drops, Dental and Eye care, kleenex, etc.

Even though you may have insurance there are extra costs for medical that are not covered for required and elective health care items.

So you may have to pay an additional $500.00 for the rest of the family per month. For 12 Months that is about $6,000.00. If you buy the insurance. sometimes it is a little cheaper. There are probably a lot of people who cant afford the extra family coverage and just pay for it out of pocket or through a Health Savings Plan. There have been many periods of unemployment where I did not have any health insurance at all and I just managed to get by.

 

[Turin39789]

Silly to look at that chart for health care costs considering most have employer subsidized insurance.

I'm waiting on a job offer from an employer who doesn't subsidize their insurance at all. Heck all the benefits just about suck. They just pay the employees more and let them do with it what they will.

So my wife's employer will subsidize my insurance and we will be sitting pretty. Hopefully.

 

[jhu]

$457 for alcoholic beverages seems a little low.

 

[jhu]

Personal responsibility???
I eat at fast food maybe once a week now. Should I have to pay extra taxes for that? No. Taxing is not going to stop bad behaviour.

Sure it will. Remember when gas prices were nearing $5/gallon in 2008? There was a noticeable decrease in highway speeds because people were trying to save gas.

 

[piasabird]

One year I had like $8,000 in cash contributions.

I only spend about $12,000 on housing costs. However, I dont have a giant 2nd mortgage, and a second loan to pay the baloon payments. I thought about getting a larger house and decided my one bathroom, small kitchen, 3 bedroom house was large enough. Maybe one day my last child will move out. I have another one away at college. Hopefully, he will find that big job and support himself.

Alcohol = 0 (Zero).

cigarettes/tobacco = 0 (Zero).

If you have a child in college they typically may need like $3,000 or more a semester for education expenses even if they are working and going to school.

Then there are things like haiti relief, Red Cross, Feeding the poor, girl scout cookies, fund raisers, Sporting events, USO (Support the troops), etc.

How much does the average family spend on Computers and video games? Hmm. . . . still using a PS2.