What do you think of Unions?

[Tom]

"The union members all seem to think the companies or management will definitely screw them if the union doesn't exist."

And they are correct. Even non-union workers get screwed less because of the possibilty of a union starting.

 

[jemcam]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"The union members all seem to think the companies or management will definitely screw them if the union doesn't exist."

And they are correct. Even non-union workers get screwed less because of the possibilty of a union starting.

And you would be a Democrat, right?

 

[HokieESM]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
Unions are generally a good thing. And are generally a very democratic entity.

Workers can actually have a voice at work when they act as a collective unit. For fair wages and to avoid frivelous discharges, etc.

Without unions......you end up with a marketplace where workers are constantly paid the least possible wage.....instead of the fairest possible wage.

Corporations hate when people have the ability to have a real voice.

Absolutely. Many large corporations will do anything to squeeze work out of an employee without any consideration for his situation--and without any consideration of past performance.

However, SOME unions have gotten so large, that THEY begin to function like large corporations themselves. As another poster mentioned--in Detroit, you can't pick up a part, you have to have a millwright do it. Changing a light bulb requires an electrician, etc. All things "bargained" for by unions on the threat of a walkout.

As I mentioned previously--the "lust for power" and the lack of pride in one's work AND the money-centered thinking of ALL individuals (management AND unions) leads to the exploitation of power. From both parties. I don't think this is an easy question--I don't want to think about a world without unions, but unionization can lead to its own problems.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: radioouman
Unfortunately, if you are in a union job without a college education, then a union is the only way that you will make a decent living. Yes there are always urban legends of dock workers making $100,000 per year because they are in a union, but the average Joe doesn't.

The sad part is that most companies that have unions would be willing to give their employees good benefits and a decent salary. But unions force the companies to give union workers a lot of fringe benefits that drag on the company.

I don't like unions, but if a person can't make a decent salary otherwise, then I see a reason for them.

Dock workers making 6 figures is no urban legend. Its true. Didn't you read the news during the longshoreman's lockout on the West coast? They make between 80,000 & 105,000 with supervisors going up-to 165,000. Trust me I know, having spend enough time in the Merchant Marine & I didn't make anywhere near a supervisor even as ship master.

Unions had their purpose when they started off but today their arrogance has to be seen to be believed. I now work in a different industry and all our workforce is union. We don't have a problem looking after the workers and paying them decently but its the other bullshit that goes with the union that makes one sick. If you ask most of our regular employees they will tell you they would rather not be in the union. What with the dues, compulsory pickets and their benefits being robbed, they would rather be paid directly and look after themselves. Unions today are corrupt, employ strong arm tactics and only exist to look after themselves. Specially here in the North East. I used to be union - no more. Union leaders = scumbags.
/end rant

 

[chemos]

i hate them. when i was in high school, i belonged to one--it was required for where i worked. of course, since i was under 18, i paid full dues and got ZERO benefits. initial dues were around $400, which was two paychecks worth of pushing carts and bagging groceries. recurring dues were comparable to taxes every paycheck. what did i get? NOTHING.

(edit)btw, the best way to turn someone off to something is forcing them into it (same with religion and a number of other topics). so my opinion here is based on my own experiences, and may not reflect your own personal experiences with unions. also, i love credit unions, just not the job unions.(/edit)

 

[Zebo]

If you ask most of our regular employees they will tell you they would rather not be in the union.

Of course not groundedSailor, once you have the pay and benefits the Union fought for their is no reason any longer to be Union right. Well it will take only limited time to revert back to the old ways of doing things, which include low pay, harrazdous conditions, and poor benefits. Almost every poster here benefits from unions whether they are part of one or not bacause you have to provide close to what the union guys are getting or you applicant pool sucks. Also white colar benefits too, you can't hire me as a materials engineer and pay me and treat me worse than the loading dock workers (who were union at one time), I won't have it and niether will the rest of the people in my company. So it inflates thier standard of living too.

 

[tcsenter]

Which would suck. I believe that one should always have the right too choice.

There is often a way around it. In Michigan, at least in the AFSCME local I belonged to, you can sever your ties with the union, and not lose your job, but union dues will still be taken out of your check and given to a charity of the union's choice, usually a 'charitable' labor foundation or organization. So either way you go, your getting union dues taken from your check, and the money is going to support labor politics...err...charities.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Which would suck. I believe that one should always have the right too choice.

There is often a way around it. In Michigan, at least in the AFSCME local I belonged to, you can sever your ties with the union, and not lose your job, but union dues will still be taken out of your check and given to a charity of the union's choice, usually a 'charitable' labor foundation or organization. So either way you go, your getting union dues taken from your check, and the money is going to support labor politics...err...charities.

TC how much does your average Michigan auto worker make compared to his South Carolina counterpart?

 

[ElFenix]

eh, i'm abivalent

 

[LH]

Small unions are okay, but the big ones are bad. UAW is bad.

Its funny work on an auto assembly line, make $30-40 a hour. Work on a fighter jet assembly line and make half that. The auto worker unions use extortion IMHO. Anyone that belongs to a large union, is overpaid for the job they do, and they continue to extort more money.

I hate the teachers unions too, not because they ask for more money, thats fine they deserve, but trying to get a teacher fired is next to impossible.

 

[tcsenter]

TC how much does your average Michigan auto worker make compared to his South Carolina counterpart?

I would suspect slightly more due to Michigan's relatively higher cost of living, but that would only be speculation, since I've never lived in South Carolina nor do I know anyone there. UAW scale is UAW scale, regardless of the state, but some regions receive a COLA type premium because of regional differences in cost of living.

 

[SlowSS]

I'm salaried, non-union. I'm compensated well, flex hours, full medical/dental (no deduction from pay) and free tuition.
SPEEA attempted to start union about six months ago, but they could only muster up 20% of signature
to vote for union, far short of required 50%. We didn't want union, we are treated well and we are happy
with our employer. Why pay $70+ a month to an organization to get same salaries and benefit.

Also, even though we are salaried, we get overtime pay when we work more than 40 hours a week,
we don't get time and half, but nevertheless, we at least get paid for working overtime.

One of the things I don't like union about is their political affiliation. I don't see why they donate to one political party
when empoyees are dems and reps. Union should allow each employee to make choices as to who they want
contributions made to, instead of arbitrarily making a donation to one party.

 

[enis083]

When we got booted out of our cubes to another section of the building, the union had to come in and move our PCs, printers, and all our junk. Normally I wouldn't mind having someone else do work for me, but we move at most 100 feet away! We didn't even have to leave the building or walk up/down any stairs. I could have put all my stuff on my chair and wheel it over in 30 minutes at the most. It took them an entire weekend to move about 30 people. Talk about a waste of money. If I decide to move to another cube, I am supposed to have the union guys do it or its a breach of contract. Tell me that ain't BS.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: notfred
I understand thier purpose, and agree ith them in theory, but they're corrupted and abused to the point that I despise them.

Yeah, what he said.

 

[Mookow]

I know if I wanted I could get a job with the Pipefitters in Cleveland for $35/hr (to start). No experience, no real qualifications, just need the right word into someone's ear, and my uncle knows the right guy. Within ten years I'd be making over $55/hour. Unless I really need the cash I would prefer not to do that, because its little better than legalized extortion.

Unions used to be a good thing, but now they have gotten too greedy and controlling. I know my uncle couldnt change a lightbulb at work, he had to wait for a electrician, and the electrician billed the company for 8 hours of work... TO CHANGE A FSCKING LIGHTBULB. Part of me kind of admires the audacity of it, the other part is sickened by it.

 

[Thegonagle]

All I can say is that reality is not quite as black and white as your poll.

 

[ILikeStuff]

Originally posted by: Garfang
All I can say is that reality is not quite as black and white as your poll.

Well, I'm sorry , but when you boil it down, I've covered the major choices. Either You like them, you did like them but no longer, you never liked em, or you're apathetic. Anything else is just a subtle variance of those 4.

 

[Bleep]

The feeling here among the Right wing dittoheads is a familiar argument that I have heard over and over for the last 50 years.

If you want to do away with unions do away with them all not just the ones for the working person.

NAM AMA NTA ABA NRA APA All the police unions, after all the unions are the ones that corrupt the police force. The Republician Party the Democratic Party.
The OAS The Chamber of Commerce and there are a lot more.

What is a Union other than people bound together for the common good of the members,

Look at the great companies that pay there help good despite no union
The first one that comes to mind is Wallmart, How about Staples. Home Depot. Menards. comp usa and thousands of others that dont pay well enough to live on the wages.

The Union Pacific Railroad the second largest Railroad in the U.S wants unions as they provide a valuable service to the company.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: notfred
I understand thier purpose, and agree ith them in theory, but they're corrupted and abused to the point that I despise them.

Yeah, what he said.

 

[Tom]

"Unions used to be a good thing, but now they have gotten too greedy and controlling."

Kind of like CEOs and corporations.

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: notfred
I understand thier purpose, and agree ith them in theory, but they're corrupted and abused to the point that I despise them.

Excellent statement, the problem I have with unions is if they are truly for the working mans rights why do they automatically lobby for the liberal point of view, which is bigger government and the higher taxes to support it?

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"Unions used to be a good thing, but now they have gotten too greedy and controlling."

Kind of like CEOs and corporations.

. . . and that's the advantage of being the CEO.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: notfred
I understand thier purpose, and agree ith them in theory, but they're corrupted and abused to the point that I despise them.

Pretty much the same here. I've grew up right next to some of the biggest UAW shops in the nation and their arrogance left a very bad taste in my mouth. I also see a terrible abuse of power shown in hospitals by *some* specific unions, as well as the bane of public education - teachers unions. I see more abuse than advancement coming from unions, but that doesn't mean that there aren't good unions out there. I just have yet to see one.

I've worked in plenty of hospitals that weren't union that had no trouble at all abusing the professional direct care staff and treating them like garbabge.I'm in a union facility now and greatly appreciate the difference it makes in my wages and benefits and in the way management approaches me.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: ILikeStuff
Personally I despise them. I see them as encouraging mediocrity in the workplace and driving up the cost of goods. What do you think?

Please read up on the history of how labor has been treated. Without the unions you would be working for five dollars a day with no benefits in a dangerous workplace.

 

[StattlichPassat]

They were once necessary, but have outlived their usefulness and are now just a drag on the economy.

Well said.