What do you think the "right to bear arms" means?

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,651
132
106
It's right there in the wording that they wanted people to have access to arms because there was no standing army at the time. "A well regulated militia..." Well we have an army now and most of the people who own guns would piss their pants if they actually had to use them to face a well-armed invader. The founding fathers clearly meant guns to defend the country, not the right for pencil-dicks to buy themselves semi-automatic phallic symbols.
See my post above. Do you think the last clause stands on its own?
 

Sean Kyle

Senior member
Aug 22, 2016
255
20
51
Thanks a lot for proving my point that you're an idiot. Just because you want it to be A does not make it so, when the writings of the founders and current judiciary opinion clearly indicate that it's B.

"Reality is that, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick

Learn ^^^^^ that lesson well, young man. It will serve you well in life.
It is based upon the philosophical thoughts of Aristotle, Cicero, Machiavelli, and John Locke. I also agree with how it is said and I am definitely not against this right. However, the instances I have seen recently makes me believe in the authenticity of this in the contemporary times.
Please don't get offended and help me learn if you think I need to learn. I stated my opinion and hoping to hear from you!
 

dead_smiley

Member
Jun 13, 2016
44
3
11
Civilians didn't own them though.
Sure they did. There are provisions today for owning them, but it's very expensive as they are highly regulated.

Cannon shells are classed as destructive devices in the U.S. under the 1934 National Firearms Act (NFA). They must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and, though legal under federal law, are prohibited from being owned by civilians in certain states. Muzzle-loading cannons themselves, however, are – remarkably – not deemed to be firearms in the U.S. and are therefore not regulated by the NFA.

Sent from my overpriced smartphone
 

ISAslot

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2001
2,881
97
91
Driving on the public roadways is a privilege, true. However, would the exercise of a 2nd Amendment right to operate a tank raise that privilege to a right or would there be a compelling state interest in abridging that right in the interest of road preservation. Much like zoning restrictions must yield to religious expression in some cases.
I guess it would depend if 'bearing' implies 'operating'. Would firing a shotgun in a city be 'operating' it? Would the fact that it is prohibited to fire it violate the 2nd amendment?
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
See my post above. Do you think the last clause stands on its own?

I think that no clause stands on its own and that you can't read only bits and pieces to get an answer you like. Every word needs to be read in its entirely to get the real meaning. What it *might* say about books or how it words something about books is irrelevant because it doesn't discuss books. If the founding fathers meant for everyone to own stockpiles of guns for whatever reason they would not have qualified the wording that way. It would have said "We're Americans dammit and love to shoot stuff, so guns fer everybody, yeehah!!!" They didn't phrase it that way for a reason, the "well regulated militia" part is integral to the meaning. They meant for civilians to own guns to protect the country or even protect their village against invaders since there was no standing army and the borders were not secure.
 

Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,180
897
126
I think that no clause stands on its own and that you can't read only bits and pieces to get an answer you like. Every word needs to be read in its entirely to get the real meaning. What it *might* say about books or how it words something about books is irrelevant because it doesn't discuss books. If the founding fathers meant for everyone to own stockpiles of guns for whatever reason they would not have qualified the wording that way. It would have said "We're Americans dammit and love to shoot stuff, so guns fer everybody, yeehah!!!" They didn't phrase it that way for a reason, the "well regulated militia" part is integral to the meaning. They meant for civilians to own guns to protect the country or even protect their village against invaders since there was no standing army and the borders were not secure.

so says the little known but eminently intellectual 10th member of our Supreme Court. So says he that knows more than 200 years of Supreme Court jurispreudence and the combined writings of our founding fathers.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
so says the little known but eminently intellectual 10th member of our Supreme Court. So says he that knows more than 200 years of Supreme Court jurispreudence and the combined writings of our founding fathers.

Do yourself a favor and get the penile lengthening you so desperately need. Buying firepower is not a substitute for what you were not born with. Your guns don't make you a man. The framers didn't toss empty superfluous phrases into the Constitution and Bill of Rights for no reason. "A well regulated militia" is there because that's what they meant. Guns for national defense, a militia. If they didn't mean militia they would not have said militia.

And that should be the mandatory requirement for owning a military rifle. If you want one, you're de facto in the militia. You will be trained in its use and subject to call up in the event of national emergency. See if the rednecks so desperate to own assault rifles are really committed to what the Constitution says. I'm guessing that if you needed to join a militia to be allowed to own an AR-15 then the people most vocal about gun rights would not go near one with a 10 foot pole.
 

Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,180
897
126
Do yourself a favor and get the penile lengthening you so desperately need. Buying firepower is not a substitute for what you were not born with. Your guns don't make you a man. The framers didn't toss empty superfluous phrases into the Constitution and Bill of Rights for no reason. "A well regulated militia" is there because that's what they meant. Guns for national defense, a militia. If they didn't mean militia they would not have said militia.

And that should be the mandatory requirement for owning a military rifle. If you want one, you're de facto in the militia. You will be trained in its use and subject to call up in the event of national emergency. See if the rednecks so desperate to own assault rifles are really committed to what the Constitution says. I'm guessing that if you needed to join a militia to be allowed to own an AR-15 then the people most vocal about gun rights would not go near one with a 10 foot pole.

not really sure what my penis has to do with it, but hey, an extra inch sounds great!

You may want to back off the bravado a bit. You're the one advocating for an interpretation of the 2nd Amendment that has been rejected by the highest court of our country consisting of the best legal scholars we have. If tou think the Supreme Court is wrong that's fine - you're entitled to your opinion. But I would think you'd want to support that opinion with something more than your own lay opinion of what the words mean... given that you're arguing for something that has never been accepted.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,663
4,137
136
I'm pretty sure they meant all weapons. I doubt they though about weapons like we have to day being possible. The whole point of the second amendment was to prevent the government from overpowering its citizens. (if citizens can't form their own militia to fight the government, freedom can be taken away if the government becomes corrupt)
This is how I view it. Equal fire power required to stop government if needed. Pretty sure the revolutionaries are glad they weren't throwing rocks at the British.

The problem today is the lack of the "well regulated militia" part.
 

right_to_know

Member
Nov 19, 2015
78
14
71
If people in the US don't like the 2nd amendment and guns then they have plenty of places to choose from the rest of the world.
For example at the end of this year, the top half of the UK will more or less be banning BB guns from the common man with it's new licensing regime.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Do yourself a favor and get the penile lengthening you so desperately need. Buying firepower is not a substitute for what you were not born with. Your guns don't make you a man. The framers didn't toss empty superfluous phrases into the Constitution and Bill of Rights for no reason. "A well regulated militia" is there because that's what they meant. Guns for national defense, a militia. If they didn't mean militia they would not have said militia.

And that should be the mandatory requirement for owning a military rifle. If you want one, you're de facto in the militia. You will be trained in its use and subject to call up in the event of national emergency. See if the rednecks so desperate to own assault rifles are really committed to what the Constitution says. I'm guessing that if you needed to join a militia to be allowed to own an AR-15 then the people most vocal about gun rights would not go near one with a 10 foot pole.

Then why don't you carry your so-called logic forward to reach the just as reasonable conclusion the 2nd Amendment could have specifically banned personal firearms (or for use in anything but a militia) but did not, and that fact itself is meaningful. And indeed not only didn't take the opportunity to ban them in the 2nd, but passed the 10th as well which would reserve the right to regulate firearms to the states or people respectively.

Or you can go actual logic and presume that since firearms were almost universally owned at the time, the writers of the constitution didn't see a need to specifically call out a right to own personal firearms. And for the same reason they didn't include a right to privacy, marriage, or any other assortment of freedoms which otherwise would have been taken for granted then just as we do today.
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,328
68
91
And that should be the mandatory requirement for owning a military rifle. If you want one, you're de facto in the militia.
Why are you differentiating military rifles? How are you differentiating?
An objects design intent is irrelevant.
Hence the banning of fingernail clippers and nail files on airplanes.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,557
27,861
136
. If you want one, you're de facto in the militia.
You're in the militia anyway according to current legal theory, hence the purported constitutionality of the draft.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

In my reading, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," is an explanatory clause while the "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." is the declaration of the right.

On a side note, I do disagree with the recent court decision claiming that the authors meant persons when they wrote people. The authors tended to be precise in their word choice and persons is used very differently in the Constitution than people is.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
You're in the militia anyway according to current legal theory, hence the purported constitutionality of the draft.



In my reading, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," is an explanatory clause while the "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." is the declaration of the right.

On a side note, I do disagree with the recent court decision claiming that the authors meant persons when they wrote people. The authors tended to be precise in their word choice and persons is used very differently in the Constitution than people is.

So is the First Amendment right to peacefully assemble limited to collective "persons" instead of individuals then? Or the Fourth? It defies logic that given your premise the 2A is only applicable as a collective right exercised via the militia and the rest are applicable to individual persons.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
It means you can own a gun.

It doesn't mean you can drive around town with a GAU-2B mounted to a SUV.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |