What does Windows 10 not understand about "defer upgrades"?

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Dahak

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2000
3,752
25
91
And speak of the devil, Microsoft has now pushed out Creators Update to everyone who had been deferring it. So now you have to take it.

Yep, just came across this today. Even though I had defer on, it still decided to download it for all the machines.
Now luckily this was a small client, but 6 machines over a 5Mbit dsl service is painful.

Well one good side affect of this is, I found out the WSUS settings where not working properly.... groan
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,376
762
126
They had to push the Creator's update, since the EOL'ed the older versions of the OS.
So, you can't defer forever...
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Tonight my PC tried another update on its own, and I fond it hung as usual. Luckily power cycling (twice) again still booted.

Not sure when one of these times it won't.

I'm wondering if I have one option. I'm assuming it's a hardware issue, likely bent CPU pins. But one thing to try would be re-installing the OS.

I think there's an option to 're-install the OS but keep your files'. I'd be interested in trying that, but am thinking that might break the OS and leave the PC unbootable where at best I can re-install again but not keep my filed and I don't want that.

Wondering if there's any reasonable option for trying it and being able to restore if needed.

I haven't found any backup system I like. I found one I used once where I backed up some text files I want. It seems impractical to backup 1.5TB of mostly games, though I think I have less than 50% disk used.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
They had to push the Creator's update, since the EOL'ed the older versions of the OS.
So, you can't defer forever...
That's the thing though. Win10 AU is not EOL. It's a Long Term Service Branch that's getting 5+5 support. Microsoft is going to be supporting that until 2026!
 

mv2devnull

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2010
1,503
145
106
And speak of the devil, Microsoft has now pushed out Creators Update to everyone who had been deferring it. So now you have to take it.
Interesting. I don't recall deferring CU, don't have "defer upgrades" checked, but no CU has shown up so far. Checking for updates does have the "do you want to be among the first" remark as before.

Microsoft apparently always, always fails to do what the customers want. (To be fair, I won't tell them what I do desire.)
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,448
10,117
126
Tonight my PC tried another update on its own, and I fond it hung as usual. Luckily power cycling (twice) again still booted.

Not sure when one of these times it won't.

I'm wondering if I have one option. I'm assuming it's a hardware issue, likely bent CPU pins. But one thing to try would be re-installing the OS.
I know that you've mentioned potentially bent pins before, and I was curious - can you "Restart" your PC from Windows, and will it restart properly?

IOW, is the issue the updates, or is there a fundamental problem restarting your PC anyways, and it's just the restart cycle during updates that triggers it.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,460
1,570
96
Interesting. I don't recall deferring CU, don't have "defer upgrades" checked, but no CU has shown up so far. Checking for updates does have the "do you want to be among the first" remark as before.

Microsoft apparently always, always fails to do what the customers want. (To be fair, I won't tell them what I do desire.)
Linux would be your friend here. No forced updates and doesn't invade your privacy.
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,376
762
126
That's the thing though. Win10 AU is not EOL. It's a Long Term Service Branch that's getting 5+5 support. Microsoft is going to be supporting that until 2026!
Windows 10 1511 will be retired on October 10, 2017, AU is 1607 I think it was.
The Win 10 LTSB is only for Enterprise (IIRC), and AFAIK, you can defer critical updates forever on those.
 

Dahak

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2000
3,752
25
91
Also the way I had understood how the defer worked, was when the next release was available, in this case Creator Update, then it would defer from that point that MS made it available to everyone like this past week and not at general release
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Just happened again, forced upgrade, hung, rolled back, hung, now it's running. I'm not sure what's going to happen eventually over it not being able to upgrade but the only solution I know is probably replace an expensive CPU and pay for a rebuild. Hundreds of dollars.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,027
10,203
136
Tonight my PC tried another update on its own, and I fond it hung as usual. Luckily power cycling (twice) again still booted.

Not sure when one of these times it won't.

I'm wondering if I have one option. I'm assuming it's a hardware issue, likely bent CPU pins. But one thing to try would be re-installing the OS.

I think there's an option to 're-install the OS but keep your files'. I'd be interested in trying that, but am thinking that might break the OS and leave the PC unbootable where at best I can re-install again but not keep my filed and I don't want that.

Wondering if there's any reasonable option for trying it and being able to restore if needed.

I haven't found any backup system I like. I found one I used once where I backed up some text files I want. It seems impractical to backup 1.5TB of mostly games, though I think I have less than 50% disk used.

If you think that there's a hardware stability issue, then doing anything significant with the OS is a really bad idea: you'll likely just end up with more of a mess than you started with.

Investigate the stability issue first, then determine if there is still an OS issue.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
If you think that there's a hardware stability issue, then doing anything significant with the OS is a really bad idea: you'll likely just end up with more of a mess than you started with.

Investigate the stability issue first, then determine if there is still an OS issue.

It's simple: runs stably, unless rebooted, generally with a patch/upgrade. Those always get a hardware hang and have to rollback except maybe small patches.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,027
10,203
136
It's simple: runs stably, unless rebooted, generally with a patch/upgrade. Those always get a hardware hang and have to rollback except maybe small patches.

If you're asking for an opinion for what hardware could be faulty, it could be a number of things.

Didn't you do a thread recently about stability issues?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
If you're asking for an opinion for what hardware could be faulty, it could be a number of things.

Didn't you do a thread recently about stability issues?

Ya, same issue, with my suspicion that there might be some bent CPU pins. No idea what else it could be.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,546
238
106
Can we clear this up (at least for now): Did you actually see some physical damage such as bent pins or not?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Can we clear this up (at least for now): Did you actually see some physical damage such as bent pins or not?

From my first attempt to build, the CPU had sliding around on it by the big artic cooler heatsink, and would not use some of the RAM banks. I inspected it and saw some bent pins, a few.

I looked at a number of possibilities for fixing them - I did not feel I could fix them after trying, and that would make it worse - and the only service I found was a jewelry store.

They 'tried' to fix them but admitted they were pretty limited in how much they could do. After their attempts I'm just not sure how bad it was. I'd say not perfect but not sure. I put it together again and now the RAM worked, but I've had this hang after a reboot/patch ever since.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,448
10,117
126
ProTip: PCs require WORKING hardware. You might want to look into that. Just sayin'...
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,546
238
106
The nice thing here is that bent pins are on the board (if I remember your build correctly) not on the CPU. So ~$100 to get to a perfectly working computer may be worth it. In the words of VL, "Just sayin'..."
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
The nice thing here is that bent pins are on the board (if I remember your build correctly) not on the CPU. So ~$100 to get to a perfectly working computer may be worth it. In the words of VL, "Just sayin'..."

Come to think of it, you're probably right - so it'd be $175 for the MB plus however much - $100? - for rebuilding it, since I don't want to repeat the same thing and deal with the CPU installation issue. If it were only $100, I'd probably do it.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,448
10,117
126
Really, if you don't feel comfortable building, look into a pre-built next time. Better than dealing with bent pins.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Microsoft is trying to make en enemy. Tonight it rebooted without any warning other than a window to close about a half-hour earlier, just after I had typed in an unsaved article.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,027
10,203
136
Microsoft is trying to make en enemy.

No, they just don't give a crap about users (beyond what is absolutely necessary to keep most of their user base). I would have thought that was rather obvious.

Tonight it rebooted without any warning other than a window to close about a half-hour earlier, just after I had typed in an unsaved article.

I wonder if it's possible that your attention was diverted while typing and pressing say the Enter key caused a message to disappear immediately after it appeared.

Also, Win10 has a 'quiet hours' feature during which time it's OK for MS to reboot the machine for updates. Admittedly the feature needs a lot of work, for example complete flexibility in choosing which hours (including all of them), but it's better than a machine that just reboots of its own accord.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,460
1,570
96
Also, Win10 has a 'quiet hours' feature during which time it's OK for MS to reboot the machine for updates. Admittedly the feature needs a lot of work, for example complete flexibility in choosing which hours (including all of them), but it's better than a machine that just reboots of its own accord.
Microsoft really goofed badly when they implemented this update scheme. I mean really, it is bad enough that Windows has to reboot many times while updating.

I use Manjaro Linux which is a rolling release distro and I don't have to deal with forced or updates or multiply reboots at all.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
I wonder if it's possible that your attention was diverted while typing and pressing say the Enter key caused a message to disappear immediately after it appeared.

No, I think nothing popped up. I'd typed in the article and was IIRC sort of just watching the screen when poof. There's a chance I missed a popup, and that hitting anything caused it to reboot, but it didn't seem like it.

Of course, that was one of three reboots of the day it forced - but only one with no warning.

And it wasn't like a crash, it cleared the screen and indicated it was the patch process doing it.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,546
238
106
I have NEVER had Windows update reboot my computer more than once in a given day.
 
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