What happened to Dreamcast?

[SoylentGreen]

Originally posted by: RKS
Most people on AT at that time picked up the DC for $50 through Value America. Games were also available 50% off.

I wish there was another VA.

I got a TNT2, used it for almost a year and sold it for what I paid.

I remember doing the same with a rio300.

Good times.

 

[OFFascist]

PS2 killed the dreamcast.

 

[Homerboy]

How can you guys say piracy killed it?
PS1, PS2, XBOX and even GC games are all easily pirated now. Thats not killing THOSE machines is it? Or how about the countless PC games and applications? Piracy hardly killed the DC.

There is no question that it had to be the brainwashed masses simply getting/waiting for a PS2 because, well it was a PS2!!!

PS2 killed the DC.

 

[thawolfman]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Boot Disc! woot

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
How can you guys say piracy killed it?
PS1, PS2, XBOX and even GC games are all easily pirated now. Thats not killing THOSE machines is it? Or how about the countless PC games and applications? Piracy hardly killed the DC.

There is no question that it had to be the brainwashed masses simply getting/waiting for a PS2 because, well it was a PS2!!!

PS2 killed the DC.

All of the above consoles require modchips, (save the GC, which can't really be modded yet) in most cases internal ones. DC had no such requirement. All you had to do was download the games and burn them with Alcohol 120% or DiscJuggler.

Current consoles may be "easily" pirated, but only in comparison to cartridge systems and/or the early days when these consoles first hit the market. In comparison to pirating DC they're massively difficult.

Still wasn't the only cause though. But it played a part.

 

[PowerMac4Ever]

PS2 doesn't require a modchip

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: gigapet
the fact that you didnt need to buy games cuz they were easily pirated.

I'm sure that helped. Once a few enterprising geeks figured out how to make a Coder's Cable the protection scheme for Dreamcast games became a joke.

More info on that below, skip if you don't care:
A Coder's Cable is a cable that goes from 9-pin serial to the Serial I/O port in the back of the Dreamcast. Using this cable and some homebrew software it is possible to use the Dreamcast to read the data from a GD-ROM -- Dreamcast's proprietary disc format -- and transfer it to the computer. Because GD-ROM is truly a proprietary, uncopiable/unreadable (normally) format Sega didn't include much else in the way of piracy protection, save for some difficulty in writing a CD such that it would boot. But unlike a Playstation disc's boot sector -- which was checked for a data block most CD burners are completely incapable of writing -- a Dreamcast game's boot sector was reproducable. And since the Dreamcast was able to read normal CDs all it took was for someone to figure out what burning program could duplicate that sector. (Padus DiscJuggler and Alcohol 120% can do that) After the Broadband Adaptor hit the market it got even easier, speeding up the average GD-ROM->Computer transfer time from a full 24 hours with the Coder's Cable to a little over an hour with the Broadband Adaptor.

In short, the Dreamcast was a next-gen console that didn't require a modchip to use pirated games on. Though that wasn't the only cause of its failure. It was also released very early compared to the other consoles, and the proprietary disc format didn't help it much with game companies. When the rest of the next-gen consoles came out it was perceived to be old and behind-the-game, even though it performed just as well or better than the other consoles.

thats so sad. dc was awesome.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever
PS2 doesn't require a modchip

Disassembling a PS1 so you can use Swap Magic counts.

 

[TranceNation]

lot of morons bought into the PS2 lol

 

[Homerboy]

XBOX does not require mod chip either TSOP flash.

DC was easy theirs no question, but there was even LESS broadband at that time so there were much less "pirates" that could easily download games from FTPs, NGs, etc.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
XBOX does not require mod chip either TSOP flash.

DC was easy theirs no question, but there was even LESS broadband at that time so there were much less "pirates" that could easily download games from FTPs, NGs, etc.

Where were you living? A cave on Mars, with your eyes shut and your fingers in your ears?

IRC and FTPs were the way to go back then. Major search engines even offered FTP searches. No Kazaa, sure, but all it took was one guy "in the know" to show anybody who wanted to pirate DC games how.

 

[xcript]

I blame the PS2. :|

Dreamcasts are still lots of fun. I play DOA2/Soul Calibur/Rez/Capcom VS SNK 2/Guilty Gear X/Ikaruga/Shenmue 2/etc. quite a bit.
They're also quite fun/easy to code for these days; I'm currently working on a couple of small games (C/SDL).

They make a pretty decent (basic) Internet browser for your TV too (but you're stuck with dialup unless you managed to get your hands on a BBA, or are willing to attempt this).

Some good Dreamcast links:

- DCHomebrew (free games.. ).
- DCDev (setting up the development environment)
- DCEmulation (nes/mame/etc. emulators).

The Dreamcast will never die!

 

[Homerboy]

Where were you living? A cave on Mars, with your eyes shut and your fingers in your ears?

IRC and FTPs were the way to go back then. Major search engines even offered FTP searches. No Kazaa, sure, but all it took was one guy "in the know" to show anybody who wanted to pirate DC games how.

Ummm... no Im not living in a cave on Mars thank you.
I realize the sh!t was on FTPs and IRC (no duh) but not many people had home broadband to download the titles easily and quickly (even a 700 .pdi file over 56K was a pain in the ass was it not?) So the overall level of people downloading the games was CERTAINLY less than today even taking into consideration just FTPs and IRC (go in an IRC channel serving any console images. the # of people is 10xs that of the DC days... not to mention the # of channels are 100xs now compared to then.

 

[Thraxen]

First off, piracy had little to nothing to do with the situation. The PSOne experienced widespread piracy including hundreds of games that could be bought from HK for just a buck or two a piece. Nothing like this existed with the DC. The PSOne went on to be come the most successful console in history (ignoring the GB series of portable consoles which people tend to count as one system even just because they are backwards compatible). PSOne games are still made today.

Second, you have to look at Sega's history. They had a series of failures leading up to the DC: Sega CD, 32X, and Saturn. All were total failures in the market. The first two because they were add-ons. The Saturn failed for several reasons. It was launched with very poor marketing (Sega poorly marketed all 3 of these), it had a $400 USD price tag, and programming was difficult due to the architecture. But the big killers were the price tag followed by the advertising (i.e. the Saturn had no 'buzz' in the market).

Then comes the PSOne. A system from a brand trusted by the public, was easy to program for, had dozens upon dozens of 3rd party developers, and launched at a price the market would support. This was the end of the Saturn.

By the time the DC was launched the general public no longer trusted the Sega brand name and Sony had taken over the market. Sony earned the PS2 hype with the PSOne, Sega had earned nothing with the Saturn. People were more than willing to wait for Sony's next system because of the PSOne rather than jump on board with the DC. Sure, the hardcore fans jumped on with the DC, but after the initial opening success it went downhill fast. Then you can throw Nintendo in the mix. They were coming off two phenomenal home systems (NES, SNES) and thus already has a rabid fanbase and the situation was that much worse for Sega.

 

[JSClark]

I still have my DC. You can stll get the games and stuff cheap at EB Games or GameStop.

And yes, piracy is what killed it.

 

[wyvrn]

Saw a show on this on TechTV the other day, where they interviewed Sega people and industry experts. Dreamcast had the largest rollout ever for a console system until the Playstation 2 came along. Basically, since the P2 had a DVD and was cheaper than standalone DVD players at the time, people bought those instead of the Dreamcast. Also, Sega fired their North American President who was responsible for the large initial rollout, and sales never recovered because of those 2 factors.

Straight from all the people involved

By the time the DC was launched the general public no longer trusted the Sega brand name and Sony had taken over the market.

Actually that is wrong. Sega shattered the PS1 record for units sold at launch. I think they sold 170k units right off the bat. Sega execs said they were actually SHORT on production right after the launch, with stores calling them for more units that they didn't have produced yet.

The Dreamcast was widely considered a console ahead of its time, and was in process of restoring Sega's name. But since the PS2 had the DVD player, Sega couldn't compete. The North American rollout came too late to recover from PS2's launch.

 

[bernse]

It was an awsome little unit and still holds up well today. I bought two of the black "sports" kits that I've kept unopened as part of my video game system collection (they're stacked under my 4 new "virtual boys"!)

 

[PoPPeR]

stop saying piracy killed it, because it didn't. Do a simple search on this topic in google or something. Not enough people bought the console, not enough third parties were willing to make games for it. Piracy had very little to do with anything

 

[xcript]

Originally posted by: bernse
4 new "virtual boys"!

Heh, I've still got one of those in a box in my cupboard. What a piece of crap.

 

[Thraxen]

Actually that is wrong. Sega shattered the PS1 record for units sold at launch. I think they sold 170k units right off the bat. The Dreamcast was widely considered a console ahead of its time, and was in process of restoring Sega's name. But since the PS2 had the DVD player, Sega couldn't compete.

I disagree. It had a great opening day, but I think that was due to Sega's established fanbase. The PSone had no fanbase coming in, plus there were shortages of the PSone for a couple of weeks after launch. I'm sure the DVD player had a little to do with it, but not much. The success of the PSOne far outweighs that factor. People were in love with Sony after the PSOne.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: PoPPeR
stop saying piracy killed it, because it didn't. Do a simple search on this topic in google or something. Not enough people bought the console, not enough third parties were willing to make games for it. Piracy had very little to do with anything

Saying piracy was the only/main cause is overstating things, yes. But so is saying that piracy had nothing to do with it.

 

[Thraxen]

Saying piracy was the only/main cause is overstating things, yes. But so is saying that piracy had nothing to do with it.

Oh come on... PSOn piracy was FAR more widespread. The DC would still be dead even it had never experienced a single pirated game.

 

[PoPPeR]

No console can survive without some big third party titles. Why do you think everyone has been saying Nintendo is on its way out. The best games for gamecube are made by Nintendo. The games sell a lot, but don't bring in the type of revenue that an exclusive third party game does.

Like thraxen said, the DC was going to die whether or not the boot disc was ever invented

 

[Thraxen]

BTW, anyone recall the swap trick? Sure you do. You could pirate PSOne games without a modchip too. The PSOne survived just fine. As others have stated (as well as myself), the DC died due to lack of support and PS2 hype. The former being due to Sega's poor track record with 32X, Sega CD, and Saturn... plus developers (like the majority of consumers) wanted a piece of the PS2 pie after the great success of the PSOne.

[EDIT] Also, PSOne games could be copied with just about any CD-ROM on the market. Almost none could read those GD-ROMs that DC games were on. As someone pointed out earlier, broadband penetration was far less than it is today, plus most general consumers know little about FTPs and even less about using IRC. Put simply, most people had no way of easily obtaining DC games. But many could figure out how to rent and rip and PSone games. Or if you couldn't figure that out, you could buy dozens of games that were being produced at facilites in Hong Kong for just a buck or so a piece.

 

[cleanslate]

Originally posted by: JoPh
i have 117 games i found online. i got the dreamcast 1.5 years ago and couldnt find any games instore. had to reley on the internet.

give me a break