What if China Invades Taiwan?

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: K1052

Um, if he said "I support the one China policy through peaceful reunification" wouldn't that mean that the US would not look kindly on a military option?

You would be wong if you thought that subtlety was lost on the PRC.

The two comments does not directly contradict with each other on the surface, but it does in actuality.
Let's say Taiwan declares independence, and China invades. Who will the U.S. support? They did say they would like a peaceful reunification, but by declaring independence first, Taiwan is obviously going the wrong direction of what the U.S. has intended for them, and they sure as hell arent going through a peaceful reunification if they declare independence. The U.S. could just as easily do nothing and stand by this statement as to going to war with China with the other statement of "supporting Taiwan in case of attack"


I'm just trying to show you that take everything that Bush says with a grain of salt. Bush is a puppet held by coporates, he'll do whatever makes the most sense for the big coporates, which we all know are heavily invested in China.

It is rather unlikely that Taiwan will would do that. They are not about to increase tensions, forcing the US's hand in the matter would not be productive.

I higly doubt the US would stand idly by while China took over Taiwan. There are far reaching implications if we just let them take it.

Actually, the current president is all about creating more tension. If they decide to start taht vote about whether Taiwan should buy more weapons yadayada, that is definitely increasing the tension.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: K1052

Um, if he said "I support the one China policy through peaceful reunification" wouldn't that mean that the US would not look kindly on a military option?

You would be wong if you thought that subtlety was lost on the PRC.

The two comments does not directly contradict with each other on the surface, but it does in actuality.
Let's say Taiwan declares independence, and China invades. Who will the U.S. support? They did say they would like a peaceful reunification, but by declaring independence first, Taiwan is obviously going the wrong direction of what the U.S. has intended for them, and they sure as hell arent going through a peaceful reunification if they declare independence. The U.S. could just as easily do nothing and stand by this statement as to going to war with China with the other statement of "supporting Taiwan in case of attack"


I'm just trying to show you that take everything that Bush says with a grain of salt. Bush is a puppet held by coporates, he'll do whatever makes the most sense for the big coporates, which we all know are heavily invested in China.

It is rather unlikely that Taiwan will would do that. They are not about to increase tensions, forcing the US's hand in the matter would not be productive.

I higly doubt the US would stand idly by while China took over Taiwan. There are far reaching implications if we just let them take it.

Actually, the current president is all about creating more tension. If they decide to start taht vote about whether Taiwan should buy more weapons yadayada, that is definitely increasing the tension.

As I recall, they agreed to sell Taiwan ships and weapons but held back some of the most advanced stuff like the Arleigh Burke destroyers.

It is not like weapons are hard to come by anyway. Hell, Russia or France would most likely sell them anything they wanted as long as Taiwan has the cash. But it is better to buy from a nation that might actually give a crap about you, namely the USA.

 

[cchen]

.

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: K1052

Um, if he said "I support the one China policy through peaceful reunification" wouldn't that mean that the US would not look kindly on a military option?

You would be wong if you thought that subtlety was lost on the PRC.

The two comments does not directly contradict with each other on the surface, but it does in actuality.
Let's say Taiwan declares independence, and China invades. Who will the U.S. support? They did say they would like a peaceful reunification, but by declaring independence first, Taiwan is obviously going the wrong direction of what the U.S. has intended for them, and they sure as hell arent going through a peaceful reunification if they declare independence. The U.S. could just as easily do nothing and stand by this statement as to going to war with China with the other statement of "supporting Taiwan in case of attack"


I'm just trying to show you that take everything that Bush says with a grain of salt. Bush is a puppet held by coporates, he'll do whatever makes the most sense for the big coporates, which we all know are heavily invested in China.

It is rather unlikely that Taiwan will would do that. They are not about to increase tensions, forcing the US's hand in the matter would not be productive.

I higly doubt the US would stand idly by while China took over Taiwan. There are far reaching implications if we just let them take it.

Actually, the current president is all about creating more tension. If they decide to start taht vote about whether Taiwan should buy more weapons yadayada, that is definitely increasing the tension.

As I recall, they agreed to sell Taiwan ships and weapons but held back some of the most advanced stuff like the Arleigh Burke destroyers.

It is not like weapons are hard to come by anyway. Hell, Russia or France would most likely sell them anything they wanted as long as Taiwan has the cash. But it is better to buy from a nation that might actually give a crap about you, namely the USA.

Actually the US isn't holding back anything.... it was Taiwan who was hesitant about spending so much

 

[ed21x]

Originally posted by: Wheatmaster
hey china would be just taking back their own land I'm sick of taiwanese people always saying, no i'm not chinese, i'm taiwanese. jebus, just get over it. with the help of china, your economy can boom like crazy

eh? you realize that the average taiwanese makes around 20x more than the average chinese right? Also, Taiwan is a fairly modern, advanced society like Japan and Singapore... if anything, the influx of chinese onto the island would absolutely demolish the country and make it a ghetto wasteland like the non-metropolis (99%) of china.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

China will probably equal or surpass us in military strength in the next two decades, three at the outside. China has one quality the west lacks. Patience. They may make a lot of noise, but they will not strike until they can make any intervention a poison pill. At that point we will wave a bunch of flags and shout a lot.

The only way it would not happen is if the Communist government falls. For all the bad mouthing the Communists get, they have a remarkably growing economy. Many of the youth are interested in the Party. Communism is alive and well in China. I am not holding my breath that it's going to fall within a lifetime.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: cchen
.

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: K1052

Um, if he said "I support the one China policy through peaceful reunification" wouldn't that mean that the US would not look kindly on a military option?

You would be wong if you thought that subtlety was lost on the PRC.

The two comments does not directly contradict with each other on the surface, but it does in actuality.
Let's say Taiwan declares independence, and China invades. Who will the U.S. support? They did say they would like a peaceful reunification, but by declaring independence first, Taiwan is obviously going the wrong direction of what the U.S. has intended for them, and they sure as hell arent going through a peaceful reunification if they declare independence. The U.S. could just as easily do nothing and stand by this statement as to going to war with China with the other statement of "supporting Taiwan in case of attack"


I'm just trying to show you that take everything that Bush says with a grain of salt. Bush is a puppet held by coporates, he'll do whatever makes the most sense for the big coporates, which we all know are heavily invested in China.

It is rather unlikely that Taiwan will would do that. They are not about to increase tensions, forcing the US's hand in the matter would not be productive.

I higly doubt the US would stand idly by while China took over Taiwan. There are far reaching implications if we just let them take it.

Actually, the current president is all about creating more tension. If they decide to start taht vote about whether Taiwan should buy more weapons yadayada, that is definitely increasing the tension.

As I recall, they agreed to sell Taiwan ships and weapons but held back some of the most advanced stuff like the Arleigh Burke destroyers.

It is not like weapons are hard to come by anyway. Hell, Russia or France would most likely sell them anything they wanted as long as Taiwan has the cash. But it is better to buy from a nation that might actually give a crap about you, namely the USA.

Actually the US isn't holding back anything.... it was Taiwan who was hesitant about spending so much

To my understanding, the Taiwanese requested the purchase of the destroyers. These are the top of the line US destroyers that would give PRC air forces and navy hell, consequently they are worth their weight in gold against the PRC.

 

[StinkyPinky]

China is booming and doing very well for themselves. Why would they risk all that just for Taiwan? China has been around for eons, they can wait a century or two longer for Taiwan.

Invading Taiwan would be economic suicide. The world would be forced to do sanctions. China isn't stupid. It wont happen in our lifetime.

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: ed21x

Originally posted by: Wheatmaster
hey china would be just taking back their own land I'm sick of taiwanese people always saying, no i'm not chinese, i'm taiwanese. jebus, just get over it. with the help of china, your economy can boom like crazy

eh? you realize that the average taiwanese makes around 20x more than the average chinese right? Also, Taiwan is a fairly modern, advanced society like Japan and Singapore... if anything, the influx of chinese onto the island would absolutely demolish the country and make it a ghetto wasteland like the non-metropolis (99%) of china.

Taiwan's rural area is crap too, only the northern cities are modern. However, living rural in Taiwan is still better than living rural in China. However the major cities in China are modernized, and some more so than Taiwan's cities. Take a look at Shanghai, looks more modernized than Taipei to me.

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky

China isn't stupid.

I beg to differ....

 

[dartworth]

who cares...

 

[StinkyPinky]

Originally posted by: cchen

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky

China isn't stupid.

I beg to differ....

You don't exist for over 2000 years by being rash.

 

[Schadenfroh]

i fully support reunification of the republic of china and the peoples republic of china, as long as the republic of china is in charge

 

[dighn]

Originally posted by: dartworth
who cares...

when RAM and mobo prices skyrocket you would

 

[metalmania]

There are no more communists in China even the ruling party is still called "Communist Party". This is a new China. Beyond that, there are no such things as "Taiwanese", only Chinese in Taiwan. I don't think China will invade that island unless the stupid president Chen in Taiwan makes a fool move. He is a coward actually, he has no guts to declare independence.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
China will probably equal or surpass us in military strength in the next two decades, three at the outside. China has one quality the west lacks. Patience. They may make a lot of noise, but they will not strike until they can make any intervention a poison pill. At that point we will wave a bunch of flags and shout a lot.

The only way it would not happen is if the Communist government falls. For all the bad mouthing the Communists get, they have a remarkably growing economy. Many of the youth are interested in the Party. Communism is alive and well in China. I am not holding my breath that it's going to fall within a lifetime.

It's not a matter of who has more/better guns. Even if they end up with a better military than the US, China fighting an all out war with the US would be the equivalent of WWIII...or worse. Not to mention they still need us a hell of a lot more than we need them, economically speaking. We buy from them, but we can buy from other places. They would have a hard time finding another customer like the US.

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: metalmania
There are no more communists in China even the ruling party is still called "Communist Party". This is a new China. Beyond that, there are no such things as "Taiwanese", only Chinese in Taiwan. I don't think China will invade that island unless the stupid president Chen in Taiwan makes a fool move. He is a coward actually, he has no guts to declare independence.

ok, commie

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: dighn

Originally posted by: dartworth
who cares...

when RAM and mobo prices skyrocket you would

ummm...no i wouldn't

 

[metalmania]

I support the reunification as long as China goes democratic.

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
i fully support reunification of the republic of china and the peoples republic of china, as long as the republic of china is in charge

 

[metalmania]

Originally posted by: cchen

Originally posted by: metalmania
There are no more communists in China even the ruling party is still called "Communist Party". This is a new China. Beyond that, there are no such things as "Taiwanese", only Chinese in Taiwan. I don't think China will invade that island unless the stupid president Chen in Taiwan makes a fool move. He is a coward actually, he has no guts to declare independence.

ok, commie

whatever, I only speak the truth.

 

[dudeguy]

Originally posted by: Amused
My curiosity has been peaked with Taiwan's latest military exercises and the fact that China "demanded" that Taiwan be called "Chinese Taipei" in the Olympics. Why they caved, I do not know.

So what if China invaded Taiwan? Would you support the US defending Taiwan? What should the world do? The UN?



No flaming, please. Just post your point of view and see what others say their point of view is.

i dont think they would risk a coup by doing it, but if they did i think a suitable headline would by 'dub nukem!'

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
China will probably equal or surpass us in military strength in the next two decades, three at the outside. China has one quality the west lacks. Patience. They may make a lot of noise, but they will not strike until they can make any intervention a poison pill. At that point we will wave a bunch of flags and shout a lot.

The only way it would not happen is if the Communist government falls. For all the bad mouthing the Communists get, they have a remarkably growing economy. Many of the youth are interested in the Party. Communism is alive and well in China. I am not holding my breath that it's going to fall within a lifetime.

It's not a matter of who has more/better guns. Even if they end up with a better military than the US, China fighting an all out war with the US would be the equivalent of WWIII...or worse. Not to mention they still need us a hell of a lot more than we need them, economically speaking. We buy from them, but we can buy from other places. They would have a hard time finding another customer like the US.

They have an enormous population. They will hardly need us soon. If their living standard was half of this country, then their consumption is a few times ours. Look at what has happened to the price of steel over the last two years. They will be competing for raw material and oil. We will be eclipsed just as we did the Brits.

Look for steel and raw materials to quadriple in price, and oil to exceed 60 dollars a bbl in the next decade. Part of this will be fallout from the instability we have introduced in the middle east, and the rest in increased world demand. We will see it coming, and rely on the market to fix it. That means we are screwed, since the price of oil could to up to a hundred dollars a barrel before new technologies and infrastructure catch up. You can imagine the inflation that will come with that.

Things ain't going to be rosy in the 30's and 40's of this century. Even if the problem of energy is solved, there is only so much iron, manganese, titanium, platinum and lumber. If a couple billion more people begin to reach our standard of living there will not be enough to go around. It doesnt exist, unless we lasso an asteroid or something. Even then that will cost and take time.

 

[UNCjigga]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
After weighing the consequences I'd think the right conclusion would be that it wouldn't be worth intervening militarily.

Do you have any idea what an invasion of Taiwan would do to the world economy?

Yeah, humanitarian and global economy concerns aside, just think of the spot market on DRAM, flash RAM, motherboard, storage and LCD prices!!!

 

[AndrewR]

Sure the U.S will have the top of the line ships and China can build their ships to go against ours causing damage. It's not like they won't be able to hit us in the water. China is growing fast and they will have the means in 10-15 maybe 20 years to build some very capable ships if they invest the money into the technology for it. They won't be like the ships of the U.S, but if they build a large fleet then there is going to be a problem.

Ship or weapons system capability is not the end all be all of fighting strength. If the sailors are not very proficient or used to realistic training, the advanced capability of anything is wasted. There are very few countries in the world with the training regimen of the US military, and the ones that have some comparable training are all allies.

Oooh, I love theoretical military actions.

And yours relies on the absolute inactivity of the Taiwan government. Do you think that the Taiwanese don't know who many of the sleepers are or what Chinese plans might be? There were some recent high profile arrests of Taiwanese agents in China -- you can't possibly think there aren't more. Admittedly, that goes both ways, but the likelihood of a complete surprise attack using embedded agents and "secret" special ops raids is highly improbable.

China will probably equal or surpass us in military strength in the next two decades, three at the outside.

You are completely deluded or completely uninformed.

To my understanding, the Taiwanese requested the purchase of the destroyers. These are the top of the line US destroyers that would give PRC air forces and navy hell, consequently they are worth their weight in gold against the PRC.

During a recent visit to the US, a Taiwanese delegation was surprised when a US flag officer offered to sell Taiwan the Aegis system. I believe Clinton declined to sell the Aegis before on the grounds that it would accelerate the arms race with China, but the current administration felt that the massive increase in Chinese ballistic missiles pointed at Taiwan in recent years justified the sale of Aegis as a defense against the missiles. Taiwan is also buying 8 diesel electric subs, P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft, and Patriot missiles. Grand total without the Aegis is $18 billion, from what I recall.

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: metalmania

Originally posted by: cchen

Originally posted by: metalmania
There are no more communists in China even the ruling party is still called "Communist Party". This is a new China. Beyond that, there are no such things as "Taiwanese", only Chinese in Taiwan. I don't think China will invade that island unless the stupid president Chen in Taiwan makes a fool move. He is a coward actually, he has no guts to declare independence.

ok, commie

whatever, I only speak the truth.

Oh ok. What about the aboriginal people who lived on Taiwan before anyone disturbed them? They aren't Taiwanese???

 

[puffff]

i was born in taiwan. however, i consider myself chinese.
i support a unified china. to me, it doesnt make sense for them to be separate entities. i hope it'll be a peaceful resolution, but if it comes to an invasion, i think i'd be ok with it. and this is coming from someone with a large number of relatives in the taiwan military (not just the mandatory service, almost every male on my fathers side of the family is an officer).

i've watched some taiwanese tv shows via satellite discussing this matter. of course, right now, the general attitude is to keep status quo. there support for independence just isnt the same as it was years ago. i dont think, if china actually invaded taiwan, the general population would care enough to put up a fight. i think they've seen how china has handled hong kong and realize that their lifestyles wont change drastically if they were to be taken over.

whether china has the capability to invade is one matter. but i question whether the US would really help taiwan, if the outcry from taiwan itself was minimal, because there is mutual interest between the US and china economically.