What if China Invades Taiwan?

[puffff]

i was born in taiwan. however, i consider myself chinese.
i support a unified china. to me, it doesnt make sense for them to be separate entities. i hope it'll be a peaceful resolution, but if it comes to an invasion, i think i'd be ok with it. and this is coming from someone with a large number of relatives in the taiwan military (not just the mandatory service, almost every male on my fathers side of the family is an officer).

i've watched some taiwanese tv shows via satellite discussing this matter. of course, right now, the general attitude is to keep status quo. there support for independence just isnt the same as it was years ago. i dont think, if china actually invaded taiwan, the general population would care enough to put up a fight. i think they've seen how china has handled hong kong and realize that their lifestyles wont change drastically if they were to be taken over.

whether china has the capability to invade is one matter. but i question whether the US would really help taiwan, if the outcry from taiwan itself was minimal, because there is mutual interest between the US and china economically.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Sure the U.S will have the top of the line ships and China can build their ships to go against ours causing damage. It's not like they won't be able to hit us in the water. China is growing fast and they will have the means in 10-15 maybe 20 years to build some very capable ships if they invest the money into the technology for it. They won't be like the ships of the U.S, but if they build a large fleet then there is going to be a problem.

Ship or weapons system capability is not the end all be all of fighting strength. If the sailors are not very proficient or used to realistic training, the advanced capability of anything is wasted. There are very few countries in the world with the training regimen of the US military, and the ones that have some comparable training are all allies.

Oooh, I love theoretical military actions.

And yours relies on the absolute inactivity of the Taiwan government. Do you think that the Taiwanese don't know who many of the sleepers are or what Chinese plans might be? There were some recent high profile arrests of Taiwanese agents in China -- you can't possibly think there aren't more. Admittedly, that goes both ways, but the likelihood of a complete surprise attack using embedded agents and "secret" special ops raids is highly improbable.

China will probably equal or surpass us in military strength in the next two decades, three at the outside.

You are completely deluded or completely uninformed.

To my understanding, the Taiwanese requested the purchase of the destroyers. These are the top of the line US destroyers that would give PRC air forces and navy hell, consequently they are worth their weight in gold against the PRC.

During a recent visit to the US, a Taiwanese delegation was surprised when a US flag officer offered to sell Taiwan the Aegis system. I believe Clinton declined to sell the Aegis before on the grounds that it would accelerate the arms race with China, but the current administration felt that the massive increase in Chinese ballistic missiles pointed at Taiwan in recent years justified the sale of Aegis as a defense against the missiles. Taiwan is also buying 8 diesel electric subs, P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft, and Patriot missiles. Grand total without the Aegis is $18 billion, from what I recall.

Why don't you figure out what the growth rate of the Chinese economy has been over the last several years, take 3/4 of that just for grins, and come back with what that figure will be. Then look at the commitment they have to engineering and public infrastructure projects. In thirty years that will get them a great deal. I think you underestimate them. If it makes you feel good, then ignore it. The British did that. They were inherently superior, just like us. Of course they are the worlds leading superpower today, right?

 

[puffff]

Originally posted by: cchen

Originally posted by: metalmania

Originally posted by: cchen

Originally posted by: metalmania
There are no more communists in China even the ruling party is still called "Communist Party". This is a new China. Beyond that, there are no such things as "Taiwanese", only Chinese in Taiwan. I don't think China will invade that island unless the stupid president Chen in Taiwan makes a fool move. He is a coward actually, he has no guts to declare independence.

ok, commie

whatever, I only speak the truth.

Oh ok. What about the aboriginal people who lived on Taiwan before anyone disturbed them? They aren't Taiwanese???

there used to be a 'dislike' between the natives and the 'out of province' people, as they were referred to.
nowadays, there isnt much distinction anymore.

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: puffff
i think they've seen how china has handled hong kong and realize that their lifestyles wont change drastically if they were to be taken over.

oh... just like how recently the communist govt has tried to suppress political freedom in HK??

 

[metalmania]

Like pufff said, there are no big difference between "natives" and new-comers. Imagine, there are still native Indian people in USA, if they demand independence, will the US government agree with that?

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
And yours relies on the absolute inactivity of the Taiwan government. Do you think that the Taiwanese don't know who many of the sleepers are or what Chinese plans might be? There were some recent high profile arrests of Taiwanese agents in China -- you can't possibly think there aren't more. Admittedly, that goes both ways, but the likelihood of a complete surprise attack using embedded agents and "secret" special ops raids is highly improbable.

I'm sure that Taiwan knows who many of the sleepers are, and I'm sure that Taiwan has seen various plans about invasion.

I'm also sure that China isn't some two bit military power. China has to have backups of backups of backups of plans for such things.

An invasion of Taiwan wouldn't be pretty, but there is no way that they could repel China alone. It just wouldn't happen. China's airforce would annihilate any aerial resistance Taiwan puts up. Hoardes of bombers would level SAM and AAA sites.

China is too close, has too many resources, and has too many troops for Taiwan to be able to hold out, and I really don't think that the US would wage war on China over Taiwan. A US/China war would quickly escalate out of control.

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: metalmania
Like pufff said, there are no big difference between "natives" and new-comers. Imagine, there are still native Indian people in USA, if they demand independence, will the US government agree with that?

You can't even compare Native Americans in the US vs Taiwan and China.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Originally posted by: metalmania
Like pufff said, there are no big difference between "natives" and new-comers. Imagine, there are still native Indian people in USA, if they demand independence, will the US government agree with that?

There are still native Indian people in the USA, and we do allow them to have independence.

 

[cerebusPu]

just met this chinese girl recently. and Im american born taiwanese. If china invades taiwan, then Id be stuck in a romeo/juilet situation. More importantly...my family is still in taiwan. Id have to get them out.

 

[luvya]

Originally posted by: puffff
i was born in taiwan. however, i consider myself chinese.
i support a unified china. to me, it doesnt make sense for them to be separate entities. i hope it'll be a peaceful resolution, but if it comes to an invasion, i think i'd be ok with it. and this is coming from someone with a large number of relatives in the taiwan military (not just the mandatory service, almost every male on my fathers side of the family is an officer).

i've watched some taiwanese tv shows via satellite discussing this matter. of course, right now, the general attitude is to keep status quo. there support for independence just isnt the same as it was years ago. i dont think, if china actually invaded taiwan, the general population would care enough to put up a fight. i think they've seen how china has handled hong kong and realize that their lifestyles wont change drastically if they were to be taken over.

whether china has the capability to invade is one matter. but i question whether the US would really help taiwan, if the outcry from taiwan itself was minimal, because there is mutual interest between the US and china economically.

puffff, I am sorry, but you are not really a taiwanese. No one, and I mean NO ONE, would be ok to see his own country gets invaded by another country, assuming he is on his right mind.

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: luvya

Originally posted by: puffff
i was born in taiwan. however, i consider myself chinese.
i support a unified china. to me, it doesnt make sense for them to be separate entities. i hope it'll be a peaceful resolution, but if it comes to an invasion, i think i'd be ok with it. and this is coming from someone with a large number of relatives in the taiwan military (not just the mandatory service, almost every male on my fathers side of the family is an officer).

i've watched some taiwanese tv shows via satellite discussing this matter. of course, right now, the general attitude is to keep status quo. there support for independence just isnt the same as it was years ago. i dont think, if china actually invaded taiwan, the general population would care enough to put up a fight. i think they've seen how china has handled hong kong and realize that their lifestyles wont change drastically if they were to be taken over.

whether china has the capability to invade is one matter. but i question whether the US would really help taiwan, if the outcry from taiwan itself was minimal, because there is mutual interest between the US and china economically.

puffff, I am sorry, but you are not really a taiwanese. No one, and I mean NO ONE, would be ok to see his own country gets invaded by another country, assuming he is on his right mind.

:beer::thumbsup:

 

[luvya]

Originally posted by: metalmania

Originally posted by: cchen

Originally posted by: metalmania
There are no more communists in China even the ruling party is still called "Communist Party". This is a new China. Beyond that, there are no such things as "Taiwanese", only Chinese in Taiwan. I don't think China will invade that island unless the stupid president Chen in Taiwan makes a fool move. He is a coward actually, he has no guts to declare independence.

ok, commie

whatever, I only speak the truth.

I wish there is an emoticon more powerful than rolling eyes, since there isn't, here you go...


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[kage69]

Yeah, pulling semantics changes little. Mainland China, ruled by the current party out of Beijing HAS NEVER RULED OVER TAIWAN! PERIOD.



So there goes the 'renegade province' BS. China wants Taiwan for it's tech base and for face. That's it, and it's pathetic. I wish the world would stop giving in to China and tell them to grow the fvck up. China has annexed enough territories, and has more pressing problems to deal with.

 

[GeneValgene]

for those new to the situation, here's a good read:

New National Identity Emerges in Taiwan
Washington Post
Friday, January 2, 2004

here are some recent links from CNN and other various news sites:

Conflict risks dragging in U.S.
CNN
Thursday, May 20, 2004

Study: China readying for conflict
CNN
Monday, May 31, 2004

Taiwan, China gear up for arms race
CNN
Saturday, June 19, 2004

China warns U.S. over arms sales
CNN
Saturday, July 31, 2004

Taiwan Flaunts Its Air Superiority Over China
Reuters
Saturday, Aug 14, 2004

edit:
for those of you who remember, clinton made big news back in 1996 during taiwan's first democratic election. china was conducting military exercises off its coast, and clinton decided to send an air craft carrier to taiwan, much to the chagrin and anger of china.

 

[noto12ious]

Haha. This is great. I love communists who think they have a stake in a democratic nation.

Move along dirty mainlanders.

 

[Ymmy]

Originally posted by: noto12ious
Haha. This is great. I love communists who think they have a stake in a democratic nation.

Move along dirty mainlanders.

Do you have nothing but flame bait materia?

You move along now.

 

[noto12ious]

This is my opinion. If you don't like it, tough.

edit: it hurts doesn't it Ymmy?.

 

[Vegito]

Taiwan is so small, china already has a big chunk of land.. leave it alone..

Remember your abit/asus/etc comes from taiwan

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: noto12ious
Haha. This is great. I love communists who think they have a stake in a democratic nation.

Move along dirty mainlanders.

WTF? The only reason Taiwan is prosperous right now because of the economical development after the influx of KMT mainlanders. Otherwise Taiwan today would still be a sh!thole with all the backward aboriginal islander people.

 

[noto12ious]

Who moved, and who stayed behind? Thought so.

edit: Answer? the commies stayed behind. Thanks. Next!

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: noto12ious
Haha. This is great. I love communists who think they have a stake in a democratic nation.

Move along dirty mainlanders.

WTF? The only reason Taiwan is prosperous right now because of the economical development after the influx of KMT mainlanders. Otherwise Taiwan today would still be a sh!thole with all the backward aboriginal islander people.

True. Look at 90% of China. Its a "shithole" too, according to your definition. And calling the aboriginals backward? Moron.

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: cchen

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: noto12ious
Haha. This is great. I love communists who think they have a stake in a democratic nation.

Move along dirty mainlanders.

WTF? The only reason Taiwan is prosperous right now because of the economical development after the influx of KMT mainlanders. Otherwise Taiwan today would still be a sh!thole with all the backward aboriginal islander people.

True. Look at 90% of China. Its a "shithole" too, according to your definition. And calling the aboriginals backward? Moron.

90% of China is a shithole, I'm gonna have to agree with u on that. The aboriginals are backward, otherwise they woulda fended off the mainlanders from the Fujian Province for the last couple hundred of years. I don't mean to be offensive, simply stating the truth. If Native Americans wasn't backward, we wouldnt even have USA. All the white people woulda got their ass whooped back to Europe.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

To my understanding, the Taiwanese requested the purchase of the destroyers. These are the top of the line US destroyers that would give PRC air forces and navy hell, consequently they are worth their weight in gold against the PRC.

During a recent visit to the US, a Taiwanese delegation was surprised when a US flag officer offered to sell Taiwan the Aegis system. I believe Clinton declined to sell the Aegis before on the grounds that it would accelerate the arms race with China, but the current administration felt that the massive increase in Chinese ballistic missiles pointed at Taiwan in recent years justified the sale of Aegis as a defense against the missiles. Taiwan is also buying 8 diesel electric subs, P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft, and Patriot missiles. Grand total without the Aegis is $18 billion, from what I recall.

I thought that the final decision was made to not sell the Aegis system by the Bush admin.

 

[sonambulo]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
90% of China is a shithole, I'm gonna have to agree with u on that. The aboriginals are backward, otherwise they woulda fended off the mainlanders from the Fujian Province for the last couple hundred of years. I don't mean to be offensive, simply stating the truth. If Native Americans wasn't backward, we wouldnt even have USA. All the white people woulda got their ass whooped back to Europe.

if the feathers had simply abandoned us honkeys they would have died off and europe would have stayed off the continent indefinitely.

 

[welst10]

Originally posted by: noto12ious
Haha. This is great. I love communists who think they have a stake in a democratic nation.

Move along dirty mainlanders.

Too bad for you that wars are not won by words. The reality is that mainlanders have more than a stake in that "democratic nation", they have its fate in hand. Make no mistake, 90% mainlanders and the PLA will go to war over taiwan regardless of US intervenes or not. The corrupt communist government is the one that's hesitating. That is realty, don't like it? tough, live with it.