What is a "good" KDR?

dpodblood

Diamond Member
May 20, 2010
4,020
1
81
I have been a single player gamer for most of my life. Just over the last few years I have been getting more into multiplayer. Obviously if you stick with a multiplayer game for a long time you want to get better at it, and one of the easiest ways of measuring that IMO is KDR.

I would at this point consider myself an average player. In most games I can manage a KDR of around 1.2. Not too impressive, but not too shameful either. So in general what would you consider a "good" KDR? At what point do you go from being average to good?
 

tailes151

Senior member
Mar 3, 2006
867
9
81
In my opinion, a KDR is not a great indicator of a player's skill. That's not to say it's useless, but it doesn't much show a player's ability to perform the game's objectives, work as a team, etc...

That said, I think 1.5:1 is above average, 2:1 is good, and 2.5+:1 is excellent (assuming these players are all still completing objectives and not just changing camp spots.

-- edit --

Should say it varies on the game as well, for the above I was referring to CS 1.6
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
91
Definitely depends on the game, what other actions you are taking, and your total kills per round compared to others. In my cs days, if I wasn't in the top 3 with a 3-1 or better it was a bad map for me.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
From starting to play Black Ops 2 with a friend, I can see some pretty glaring problems of looking at an all-time KDR. There were matches where I played against teams and/or really experienced players, and their KDR was huge in comparison to everyone else. At least from my point of view, KDR is much more indicative when you're paired against opponents of a similar skill. It would be akin to throwing a StarCraft II player into random leagues from Bronze (easiest) to Master (best) and counting losses.

One of the other problems that I have is that I mostly played games like Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament. I usually call them the "twitch shooters", because it's all about moving and killing your opponent before they kill you. For reference, my favorite map of all time is probably Q3DM17 "The Longest Yard". My friend and I were playing the style where you capture areas, and man... I was so bored. It became a game of "Okay, where are they going to camp from now?" :|
 

ThinClient

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2013
3,980
4
0
KDR only shows a relationship between the skill level of that player and the players he opposes. KDR is relative to each and every match so it isn't a valid measure of anything other than that one specific match. People who obsess about KDRs are usually giant tools.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
91
KDR only shows a relationship between the skill level of that player and the players he opposes. KDR is relative to each and every match so it isn't a valid measure of anything other than that one specific match. People who obsess about KDRs are usually giant tools.

Yeah should add to my post above, that was on pub servers. On OGL matches I'd just be happy if my team won. We had practiced strategies for every map and certain jobs were much higher risk than others.
 

dpodblood

Diamond Member
May 20, 2010
4,020
1
81
In my opinion, a KDR is not a great indicator of a player's skill. That's not to say it's useless, but it doesn't much show a player's ability to perform the game's objectives, work as a team, etc...

That said, I think 1.5:1 is above average, 2:1 is good, and 2.5+:1 is excellent (assuming these players are all still completing objectives and not just changing camp spots.

-- edit --

Should say it varies on the game as well, for the above I was referring to CS 1.6

Totally agree. Nothing annoys me more than having a teammate that has a KDR of 20:1, but hasn't bothered to do any objectives at all. I should clarify I don't think KDR is the be all end all of skills, but it can be somewhat of an indicator. For instance if your KDR is like 0.5 than you probably aren't very skilled regardless of whether your playing objectives or not.
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,603
9
81
Depends on the game. I only have experience with KDR in battlefield where anything >1 is good due to the game mechanics, you kill more than 1 person before you die you are helping, even if its just 1.01 KDR, you are an asset.

Have to say though to those knocking KDR, if it wasent for the guys out there butchering the enemy team you may not be able to "teamwork" or "accomplish objectives" because you would've be shot to pieces by the people the KDR whores would have otherwise killed

Also people who have good KDR's are typically far more adaptable than those without, if you can aim, shoot, kill and not die then running around spamming medpacks or standing next to a flagpole shouldn't be too difficult.

At the end of the day though fun > any stat out there so as long as you're having fun with the game i wouldn't be too concerned. Its not as if many people even pay attention to the chatbox in FPS games anyways, too fast paced
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,810
45
91
It really depends on the game. Counter-strike is a horrible game to use for KDR. Anyone can camp all round and never die to inflate their KDR. But, looking at what team wins the most isn't the best option either. I can have an amazing KDR on a team that is losing or a horrible 0-12 KDR on a team that is winning. Neither is an indicator of the players skill level. Frequently I join the teams that are LOSING. (And half the time I take them back from brink of death. (1-15 to 15-15, etc))

In Counter-Strike, the KDR varies wildly for me per map and per day. I get quite a few streaks of 4-7 kills per round for a few rounds and then subsequently lose it all.

Try to stay at least at 1:1 though. I use to go for the most damage per round as possible. (Grenades, fire, and good targeted AOE type guns) But, that tactic isn't that useful. I try to get kills rather than that. A player that is wounded is still as a lethal as one that is at full hp. Only thing that makes a player less lethal is a dead one.

EDIT:
Definitely depends on the game, what other actions you are taking, and your total kills per round compared to others. In my cs days, if I wasn't in the top 3 with a 3-1 or better it was a bad map for me.

I agree with this mostly. If I join halfway into the game or sooner and I'm not in the top 2 in the server by the end (by points) then I'm having a bad day.
 
Last edited:

thm1223

Senior member
Jun 24, 2011
336
0
71
My KDR in Planetside 2 right now is around 4:1, and I feel like that is from being lucky enough to mostly participate in successful offensives more than anything else.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
I duno. I'm currently at 2.52. Is that good? I'm happy with it. Wether killing a lot helps depends on the situation and who you are shooting at. Wiping out a flag area is helpful. Shooting people who just run around like aimless morons probably isn't, but I do both =)
 

coldmeat

Diamond Member
Jul 10, 2007
9,214
78
91
I wish they would just get rid of KDR all together, or at least wouldn't make it the focus of the end game leaderboards. Maybe people wouldn't be so worried about their KDR if no one else could see it.
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
I've played a lot of counter-strike, if you have poor kdr on counter-strike you are a liability, nothing more. There are no respawns, you are just taking a slot of a player able to contribute more. If you fulfill objectives it awards 'kills' so it would help pad it if you are mediocre..
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,196
197
106
Well I'm not particularly good at competitive multi-player games although I enjoy most of the ones I happen to own nonetheless. I don't mind higher deaths-than-kills ratios in games that don't take themselves too seriously like Team Fortress 2, since I tend to follow the developers' own mind set. In games like TF2 I usually keep a smile on my face most of the time, but of course if I get killed multiple times in a row the same exact way eventually it can get on my nerves a bit, but it's never really "nerd rage" material. It also depends on the game itself and how it's supposed to be played, sometimes depends on the engine (how controls respond, if there's any sort of air control for your character, how much gravity, how fast you fall or run, physics effects is any, etc). For me, a "good" Kill-Death ratio would be one that doesn't negatively impact my fun, rather than having any effects for example on either my ego or my "popularity" (be it short term or longer term, or even if it's just for the duration of a single match).

If I actually wanted to be "competitive" like I think I used to be back in the Unreal Tournament 2004 days (I loved UT99 but I sucked at it) then I would consider a "good" KDR probably something along the lines of 10 to 1. But that's very subjective. I was "content with" killing maybe a dozen players (maybe, that's the key word, never happened consistently) before dying, and I considered that "enough" and competitive, but if I was to ask other hardcore players in the match how I was doing they would have probably said that it was pretty much "normal" or not particularly significant or meaningful. I used to play a lot of capture the flag in UT 2004 and most of the time with of course some exceptions I would usually end up on the top 5 players of both teams combined for the KDR and overall score (including capturing the flag and delivering it to our base without dying).

But then again I myself am a very bad "example", even if all of this is very subjective, because even though I was "good enough" in UT 2004 that game is pretty much the only one in which I really became competitive. I did play more multiplayer games than UT 2004 of course but usually I sucked at them or I just never bothered actually trying to "get into its competitive community". I've been pretty decent with the Heavy Weapons Guy for a time back when TF2 was new (Orange Box days and until the Medic update came out) but then again being "good" at TF2, to me, never sounded very serious in itself. You know... someone telling you "oh dude yeah I RULE at TF2 I can kill like 20 before I die just once!" ... mmmm, yeah ok so... what's particularly difficult about doing that in TF2? I'm sure I've killed about as much with the HWG a few times and probably never even looked at the score board to make sure about it just because I never took the game itself very seriously. That is since I took my "performance" in TF2 with a really big grain of salt and usually laughed at my own deaths since the characters are funny and animations remind me of a Pixar movie and it's so lighthearted overall.

But, anyway, I guess that's just my own perception...

I have to say however that I usually prefer co-operation modes in multi-player games. That's probably why I spend more time playing The Last Stand (Dawn of War 2) and Mass Effect 3's multi-player lately more than I would launch Planetside 2 or Bad Company 2. Although of course to some extent you are co-operating with your own teammates in team-based games. But when I refer to co-operation I usually mean human players against A.I., because as soon as the enemy happens to be rival human players I categorize such modes and games as being "competitive" games, rather than being plainly about co-operation, even though yes I know... it is just that and as a team too. Anyway... again, my perception on games, it's quite subjective. So, "good" KD ratio? I don't have a definitive example, even for myself, what's important as I mentioned, for me, is to just happen to have a KDR that doesn't have any form of negative effects on my fun in the game. In fact if a KDR of mine was to be so low as to make me rage quit then the game itself would not be for me, rather than the KDR itself being the reason for quitting. If I have fun in a game I will probably ignore my KDR unless you bring me back about six or seven years and make me play UT 2004 again in the context of it still being new.
 
Last edited:

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
I would bet that the average KDR is significantly less than 1. Probably somewhere around .75/.85. Near 1 or greater would be better than average. Whether or not its good depends on the game. On a infantry only mode or rush in BF I would go 5+ KDR. But on conquest, playing with guys trying to win, its not uncommon for me to go .5, but I will be top 3 for total points. I'll play engineer and repair or try to take out vehicles. Or a medic, whatever we need. I dont use vehicles myself. I think my average ended up being around 1.5 - 1.75 before I stopped playing. Not the best, but never overmatched 1 vs 1.
 

chalmers

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2008
2,565
0
76
I would bet that the average KDR is significantly less than 1. Probably somewhere around .75/.85.

Isn't the overall average KDR 1? In the history of FPS there's been equal kills to deaths (minus cratering and telefrag).
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
Isn't the overall average KDR 1? In the history of FPS there's been equal kills to deaths (minus cratering and telefrag).

No. It would always be less than 1, because of quitters, suicides, etc. While I did say average, I meant a majority.
 

fatpat268

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2006
5,853
0
71
I always find it funny when someone comes in and goes, "I dunno, I have a 2.2 kdr, is that good?"

Anything above 1.0 is good. Anytime you have more kills than deaths, you're a positive addition to team play... even in objective modes (unless you're somehow farming kills away from the objectives, but even then you're preventing the opposing team from accomplishing objectives as well).
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
6
81
I wish they would just get rid of KDR all together, or at least wouldn't make it the focus of the end game leaderboards. Maybe people wouldn't be so worried about their KDR if no one else could see it.

Even in BF3 TDM, where it's all about killing people, you don't top the leaderboard by having the best K ratio, you do it by having a lot of kills and also a lot of other points.
Although to win the game your team has to have a better K ratio than the other team, obviously.
 

lavaheadache

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2005
6,893
14
81
I hate campers. My KTD ratio in BF3 sucks. I hate campers. I find that I'm always getting picked off from god knows where(I hate campers) half the time but when I come face to face with somebody I feel like I win the majority of the time. I hate campers.
 
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