What is a LIVING WAGE? Representative Katie Porter Stumps JPMorgan Chase’s CEO with question about his own employee's salary

[blackangst1]

Because the United States does not "own" its oil, our mega corps do. And they probably exist for profit, not for United States self interests. Ergo, "our" oil is on the global market, sold to whoever is willing to pay the highest price for it. Suppose that buyer is not always local.

Well, its not that cut and dried.

 

[skull]

Last time I filled up it was $2.61 for silver. Its higher now due to Trump closing off Venezuelan imports to topple Maduro whatever good that does..

What I don't understand is why are we importing/ exporting to other countries instead of self sustaining? Wouldn't it be much better to use domestic gasoline?

Not bad were about the same right now.

Our crude is different than other countries not the best for making gasoline as far as I understand.

 

[obidamnkenobi]

I agree that these predator corporations are completely disgusting in the way they treat humanity. I also don't see how you can force them to pay the wages you we see as reasonable. Yes the CEO of Chase got 30 million last year but what about the banks that folded last year? The banks that went under clearly couldn't afford to pay a living wage. So how can we demand that all places pay a living wage when some are barely keeping the lights on? You can also forget most mom and pops surviving under the living wage law.

Just curious why we are so against this man making this much money but a professional athlete making just as much is worshipped?

honestly don't know what your point is, you seem to just throw stuff out there. "JP morgan pays poorly, but what about banks that went under..?" Uhm, what? Is that why JPM didn't go under? Where talking about their payrate, not hypothetical out-of-business bank. It is a good point thought that antitrust law is poorly enforced in the US, allowing huge banks to buy/bully the smaller ones, eliminating competition and allowing them to charge and pay whatever they want.

For the record I also think huge athlete wages are stupid, but they usually aren't bailed out by the government (though tax-incentives for stadiums are an issue..)

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

A single mom in california doesn't need a truck to get around in the snow...

Still ridiculous I'm in the midwest last truck I bought was before my saturn in early 13. I got an 05 for 4750, luckily real trucks for work don't cost what grocery getter trucks cost. I know how to drive don't need 4 x 4.

A single mom in california is probably paying double my rent/mortgage per sqft, though (depending on where she lives). Probably comparable taxes (NY here).

I'm not bad at driving by any means but my country roads don't get salted well, and I have a 300' driveway with a dip in the middle. I'd prefer not to fuck around with a shitty 2wd vehicle.

 

[obidamnkenobi]

Curious.
The "example" is underwater by $644 per month. With costs demonstrated as $3,069.00 VS an income of $2,425.00 a month. That's huge. And who the !@#$ only has $100 in utilities? Hello, electric bill anyone?

So... how does my plan address this scenario?

Basic Income would be fully funded by a 25% tax. Let us assume you'll need some other taxation on top of that. I'll round it off at around 33% taxation on her income. Her monthly income shoots up to $2,958.08. Better, but she'll still be in the hole by $111/mo. That is where the second and third aspects of my plan come into play. For housing. My UBI pays into a nest egg for all children. At age 18 they'll have access to $216,000 in savings. A couple would have $432,000. I think that'd cover the price of the apartment, in cash. Out here in Alabama you'd have a high end McMansion.

My plan aims to cut out (or greatly reduce) house payments. If it was eliminated, then this parent would not be paying $1,600/mo. She'd have a net savings of $1,489/mo. But that's going to occur for new couples 18 years after UBI is implemented. What about the short term, what about tomorrow? Federal Housing Loan program. FHL takes over as the lender, and landlord. You "pay" them for your "rent". A chunk of UBI is taken out and applies to to your home. Let's say FHL would charge her $330/mo. That's less than the original $1,600/mo, with a net savings of $1,159/mo.

Confused by this. So the FHL would buy up huge amounts of properties? The federal government would become a massive property owner and landlord? Or would they pay the difference (1600-330) to the current landlord? Who would of course instantly raise the rent.

I'm all for creative solutions, but there are some pretty crazy unforseen consequence to this kind of large economic meddling by the government. IMO simply raising the minimum wage, and thus wages further up the chain, yielding more economic activity at the bottom (vs for the rich who simply hord the cash) would be a good, simple start.

 

[Mai72]

Large Corp CEOs make way too much. They have no idea of the lower employee wage scales.
Starter bank tellers don’t make enough.
Taxes and cost of living are too high in Irvine.
Porter’s numbers don’t add up (do the math - $16.50hr x 40hrs/wk x 52wks = $34,320)

Proposed minimum wage of $15 is not going to be enough to live in high cost of living areas.
HuffPo left out a few details. Her JPMorgan Chase person is hypothetical.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/10/politics/katie-porter-jamie-dimon-bank-employees/index.html

Bank tellers are on the way out due to automation. The last time I was in a bank was 3 years ago.

When I was watching the video I saw a caption that read something about government intervention, and how they need to step up. Here is the thing though. I don't trust the government, because they can't even manage their own back yard. As Dave Ramsey has stated before "it's on you to figure this out." Waiting on the government or big business to come to your rescue is asking for trouble. I wish there was a better answer, but TBH there isn't one. It sucks. This lady is living right on the edge. She makes just enough that she can't apply for some type of assistance. $34k ain't shit, especially with a child. She can't even get a 2nd job. Unfortunantly, it's going to get really bad for a lot of people.

 

[skull]

A single mom in california is probably paying double my rent/mortgage per sqft, though (depending on where she lives). Probably comparable taxes (NY here).

I'm not bad at driving by any means but my country roads don't get salted well, and I have a 300' driveway with a dip in the middle. I'd prefer not to fuck around with a shitty 2wd vehicle.

A front wheel drive car is all you need, I've never been stuck in one. 2 wd pick up trucks can suck but remember 4wd only helps you get going doesn't keep you from sliding down an embankment or into traffic. My rwd heavily loaded box truck doesn't even notice the snow. Back when I drove a 2 wd pick up the lack of weight on the drive tires sucked, I remember getting pissed off at 4 x 4s going so slow up hills in snow. They're just chugging along and I'm like go motherfuckers I gotta keep speed or I ain't gonna make it up the hill. Had some meaty mud and snow tires in the back and never did get stuck in that thing, even with an open diff.

Years ago in my 2wd cutaway van with a utility body it was a dually on top of being 2wd but luckily had trac-loc, streets are covered in snow. Theres a big hill on a 4 lane rd and the 2 lanes in my direction were bumper to bumper cars and SUVs spinning out. I saw it from a football field away said fuck this. Stomped the gas got some speed going before I hit the backed up traffic crossed the double yellow and passed all of em.

 

[pete6032]

You don't understand..

People move where they can find jobs, not where they can find lower insurance costs. That's why small towns in America are dying.

And I like where I live.. This is how far is everything from me.. (home and work via subway)

Bus 0.5 blocks.
Bank 1.5 blocks.
Train 2 blocks.
Supermarket 3.5 blocks.
Central Park 4 blocks.
Doctor 6 blocks.
University 8 blocks.
Hospital 13 blocks.

Total mileage on car last year 353 miles.

Fuck the 40 mile round trip commutes.

And it's much easier to get a job here. Just the cost of living is insane. Hell people are sometimes paying $22k property taxes on a 3500 square feet but it's worth it to have this kind of life.

Where you do live? NYC?

 

[nakedfrog]

A front wheel drive car is all you need, I've never been stuck in one.

Bully for you. Doesn't mean that it's impossible, there are 100% guaranteed places here you're not going to get around unless you wait until it's plowed, or you have AWD/4WD.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

A front wheel drive car is all you need, I've never been stuck in one. 2 wd pick up trucks can suck but remember 4wd only helps you get going doesn't keep you from sliding down an embankment or into traffic. My rwd heavily loaded box truck doesn't even notice the snow. Back when I drove a 2 wd pick up the lack of weight on the drive tires sucked, I remember getting pissed off at 4 x 4s going so slow up hills in snow. They're just chugging along and I'm like go motherfuckers I gotta keep speed or I ain't gonna make it up the hill. Had some meaty mud and snow tires in the back and never did get stuck in that thing, even with an open diff.

Years ago in my 2wd cutaway van with a utility body it was a dually on top of being 2wd but luckily had trac-loc, streets are covered in snow. Theres a big hill on a 4 lane rd and the 2 lanes in my direction were bumper to bumper cars and SUVs spinning out. I saw it from a football field away said fuck this. Stomped the gas got some speed going before I hit the backed up traffic crossed the double yellow and passed all of em.

Bully for you. Doesn't mean that it's impossible, there are 100% guaranteed places here you're not going to get around unless you wait until it's plowed, or you have AWD/4WD.

This. A year ago I drove through Syracuse in a blizzard with my Camaro and basically bumper-bounced through the tire tracks in the foot of snow the entire way. This last winter, I had at least a dozen days of driving through a foot of snow either in my driveway (because the plow guy hadn't gotten there yet) or my street. I've also driven on literal sheets of ice, and watched people slide off the road in those wonderful 2wd vehicles they were driving. I'm lucky enough to have a job I can WFH from if I need but I can't always, hence I needed a vehicle that can handle it. In addition, I needed a vehicle for hauling, so a 4wd truck made more sense than a random 4wd car, or 2wd truck. This isn't a grocery-grabber, it's a winter-driver and haul-wood/rocks/metal-driver.

I'll note that I originally was going for a Tacoma, but the prices were identical to the one I found for basically the same automobile, so I said screw it and spent an extra grand or so.

Here's a few examples for you:
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Toyota-Tacoma-Ithaca-d311_L24570#listing=235903467
06 Tacoma, 14k
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Toyota-Tacoma-Ithaca-d311_L24570#listing=234834975
04 Tacoma, 12k

My budget for a truck was originally 10k, and literally every single one i looked at in that price range was a rusted husk, I mean one I was literally able to rip chunks off the engine mounting brackets with my hands, it was like tree bark. That one was 11k, but 'new tires and comes with a plow!'...

It sold within two weeks, btw.

 

[Jaskalas]

Confused by this. So the FHL would buy up huge amounts of properties? The federal government would become a massive property owner and landlord?

That's the idea. I know it would not work for super expensive structures like the skyscrapers in NYC, those probably justify their price tag. But Irvine CA? Aw hell no. The goal is to help people not get priced out, kicked out, or foreclosed on for financial reasons. To pick up properties where, combined with UBI, it makes sense to protect our consumers.

Ultimately it is intended to be set at a price that is budget neutral. Where the monthly payments eventually recoup the costs. If there aren't enough of these "cheaper" properties around, then we should look into their construction. And we don't have to go cheap either. At a 30-50 year range, we can get a couple to afford the full price for a $230k-$400k home. That's not bad. Certainly more expensive than the average home in my state.

There is no reason, other than lack of will, that this initiative couldn't be done. We just have to sell people on having economic security. They don't believe it is possible. But the numbers add up. We can help show them the way.

 

[Exterous]

I love how in threads like this someone always throws out helpful tips like moving to East Crapville, Arkansas where everyone works at either the dollar store or the truck stop.

I mean some of it was about the car and gas. $250\mo for a 2008 car when you're broke is crazy high. Hell, I make quite a bit more than her and my car payment is still lower* My suspicion, given a look at Irvine CA car deals (2016 Corolla with 36k miles for $170\mo, 2017 Yaris with 50k for $150\mo.) is that the car selection was not made in line with income. I also suspect that getting a car like a civic, corolla or yaris would help with the gas cost since those tend to be very fuel efficient and light on repair bills. (And I don't think she needs 4wd\awd where she lives)

Will that resolve her issue? No but its also hard to dig in without knowing the real estate options, commuting options, how long she's worked there, her performance history, raise\prof development opportunities etc. Sometimes those don't play out well for the company. Sometimes it doesn't play out well for the employee. Often its somewhere in the middle

*If we include car insurance mine is higher but MI ranks #1 in highest car insurance rates and my car is also not a civic, corolla or yaris.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well, its not that cut and dried.

Oil goes on an exchange to the highest bidder. What you link to doesn't address that fact. Of course, we're an "energy exporter" because that's how those who control US oil make the most money. The smartest thing would be to keep our energy within our borders and keep the rest for raw materials in the petrochemical industries while we convert to non-fossil fuel over the next 20 years which is possible but won't make billionaires happy even if it saves the lives of their families.

 

[Lanyap]

THIS is the reality in America.
While Trump claims everything is WONDERFUL for the middle class, and the markets explode in profits, none of that amounts to anything for most middle class Americans.
After those Trump tax cuts, sure things appear rosy to Donald Trump. To the super wealthy.
Things appear rosy because for them things are quite rosy.
But most Americans are working for a low wage, and for a stagnated wage at that.
Both low wages and without affordable healthcare.
We can't all be like Dick Cheney, where they can afford heart transplant after heart transplant as if this were some K-Mart blue light special.
Most Americans can't afford their medicine let alone afford to see a doctor.
So while the billionaires shove the illusion of a great economy down the throats of the middle class, we know better.
The billionaires think they are fooling people. They are so convinced that their BS is working.
Come 2020 they won't know what hit them.

I understand why you are going after Trump but you do realize Porter’s hypothetical scenario has been around long before Trump, right? Trump makes it worse by saying everything is great and doing the trickle down thing. Even if a dem wins in 2020 s/he is not going to fix this anytime soon. There is no simple quick fix for low wage high cost of living situation.

 

[Lanyap]

**sarcasm alert**

She should own a used car
She shouldn’t spend $100 a week in food
$450 after school care??? kid should just hang out in a park after school
$40 per month for a phone??? I bet she has a new iPhone every year. She should do one of those prepay plans $100 per year max!!!

Conservative guys am I doing it right?

You left out that she should have three jobs.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You left out that she should have three jobs.

Oh fuck yeah

 

[Victorian Gray]

You left out that she should have three jobs.

Only three? What a slacker.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You left out that she should have three jobs.

Only three? What a slacker.

Wait.....Instead of $450 per month post school childcare. The kid should head to work after school.
a) saves $450 per month
b) extra income


If only there was a lower minimum wage her kid could easily find work.

 

[brandonbull]

The Robin Hood model is not going to work. If we accept that the government is going to control and provide income to a large segement of the population, we are giving up on the fact that the government works for the people. The very rich will not be taxed into not being very rich and governmental "wealth redistribution" is just another ploy to centralize power over the population.

 

[sandorski]

The Robin Hood model is not going to work. If we accept that the government is going to control and provide income to a large segement of the population, we are giving up on the fact that the government works for the people. The very rich will not be taxed into not being very rich and governmental "wealth redistribution" is just another ploy to centralize power over the population.

No one is talking about impoverishing the Wealthy.

 

[Starbuck1975]

**sarcasm alert**

She should own a used car
She shouldn’t spend $100 a week in food
$450 after school care??? kid should just hang out in a park after school
$40 per month for a phone??? I bet she has a new iPhone every year. She should do one of those prepay plans $100 per year max!!!

Conservative guys am I doing it right?

No, you’re not.

The hypothetical person in the article is based around a job posting in Irvine, CA, which is one of the wealthiest cities in the country. There will always be high cost of living areas, and service industry careers will never afford them. The better question would be to challenge why there is not more low cost housing in Irvine or why there is inadequate public transportation to efficiently move people from lower cost areas to these jobs. The neighboring cities are more affordable, good luck commuting from them without a car.

Why do companies need to solve the problem of poor governance?

 

[Greenman]

I don't think that is 100% true. There is always things a government CAN do. You could not allow said company to operate within the US. No sales, no physical presence, nothing. And that hole would be replaced by a company that is willing. Obviously this is extreme, but there are things one could do.

We really just need to get away from money somehow. Finally advance to the next stage of evolution that we are smart enough as humans to actually do.

Like the Star Trek economy where the benevolent Federation takes care of everything and everyone works for the common good?
My guess is half those folks would be "cling on's".

 

[dainthomas]

Like the Star Trek economy where the benevolent Federation takes care of everything and everyone works for the common good?
My guess is half those folks would be "cling on's".

With free energy (fusion), society could support half the population being layabouts.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

With free energy (fusion), society could support half the population being layabouts.

and the replicator that everyone appears to have. Provides all necessities at minimum for no cost but energy.

 

[Jaskalas]

The Robin Hood model is not going to work. If we accept that the government is going to control and provide income to a large segement of the population, we are giving up on the fact that the government works for the people. The very rich will not be taxed into not being very rich and governmental "wealth redistribution" is just another ploy to centralize power over the population.

First, your last sentiment. Power over people. What sort of power do the recipients of wage slavery enjoy?

I adhere to the "no strings attached" UBI model. Essentially it is Libertarianism with a safety net. People, who are otherwise powerless, become empowered by the benefit of receiving the basic necessities WITHOUT the need to beg for the first job not to reject them. For the first time in their lives they'd be able to CHOOSE their employment and spend the time seeking a career path of their... choice. Imagine that today, a person living month to month walking away from a job. They'll either suffer hungry and homeless, or be dependent on someone. Their "power" is already in someone else's hands, mine is a method to FREE them from that.

"Robin Hood model"? The Unites States budget IS ALREADY $4 trillion. That sum is more than the cost of Basic Income. Taxation and "wealth redistribution" already exist today. This is no dramatic increase over that, but a sizeable reallocation of many existing programs. In ways that'd benefit everyone.

Your fallacy is your anti government mantra. As if each man is an island unto himself. That's complete and utter BS. You LIVE in a society. There are no islands, no unclaimed lands for you to go run away to and hide in. Everything already belongs to someone else. Unless you intend to be a thief you will not be taking anything for yourself that you do not earn and pay for. Currency, and how did you imagine obtaining money? Do you print it yourself? Do you grow it from your bootstraps? Or does someone with POWER over you decide to pay you money?

Your concept of independence from government is a lie. You are dependent on society. The question is, what kind of society are we? One with wage slavery, people paid so little that they're impoverished and destitute as they are today? Or should we be a society like the Baby Boomers enjoyed growing up, with enough wealth in the hands of people that one parent could work a minimal job and still provide for their family?

UBI takes us further down that path of restoring wealth to American workers, and given the goal of eliminating or greatly reducing house payments, these programs (combined) essentially pay for themselves amongst the lower class. Of which a majority of people reside. A single income of $35k is taxed much higher at 33%, but as demonstrated they still gain a benefit of higher monthly income, and a net gain of $1,803/mo over their current situation.

Can you honestly tell us a more wealthy American people are "less free"? I know you've been fed propaganda your entire life, conditioned to think government = bad, helping people = bad. But stop to think for yourself for just a moment. Look at what has been stolen from American workers. That gap is how much ground they've lost in a generation. How much freedom do a starving people have? If you would but open your eyes, you can help free them by helping us restore their wealth.