What is a router?

pylorns

Member
Jul 4, 2000
194
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0
I know what a hub is - simple networking broadband ip, i know what a switch is - single ip to ip. what does a router do? does it have an on board processor? Why would i need one over cable modem? or to work with cable modem? More speed?
 

cisco

Golden Member
Apr 19, 2000
1,236
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71
I have cable and have 7 systems hooked up to a hub, sometimes they see each other (in DHCP) sometimes they don't, kind of hit or miss. I left them on DHCP because when they work they can all axcess the internet at once, but they didn't always work. I installed a router and now they always work, it gives ip addresses and they always hit it. so whether playing local or internet games ,downloading mp3s,etc, I now have a stable network. also it provides a firewall giving some security.it must have a computer chip in it to control things , all I know is it works 100% better than hit or miss...
hope this helps..
 

pylorns

Member
Jul 4, 2000
194
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It helps a little thanks, so basically you need to run dhcp on another computer - server box to effectivly use a router. ALso i read somewhere that you can logon to the router? What is this about?

- i have cable modem, 8 port hub and 5 computers each using a differnet ip, thus, the lack of using dhcp.
 

jmcoreymv

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,264
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0
It basically connects seperate networks together. So like a 24.x.x.x network can talk to a 192.x.x.x network.
 

pylorns

Member
Jul 4, 2000
194
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0
Ok so if i was running Wan(wide area network) i could connect two seprate lans (local area networks) together with 2 seperate routers then. Correct?
 

AdamDuritz99

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2000
3,233
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71
uhhmm a switch still can connect two separate LANs together. There is no reason at all to get a router if you just have a few pc's at your place. There is no reason to get a router if you have 100 nodes there. Routers are used in big corporations. Switches help to increase the collision domains, but not broadcast domains. Routers help to do both, for better utilization on the network. But spending a lot of money for a router is most defiantly not worth it b/c a switch could just do as good as a router would in small LANs.
 

IceStorm

Senior member
Feb 7, 2000
209
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Layer 1 - Ethernet cable, wall jacks, ports in a device. Electrical signaling characteristics.

Layer 2 - Ethernet framing, Media Access Control addresses.

Layer 3 - IP packets, IP addresses.

You can remove any layer and replace it with another (although Layer 1/2 are usually tied together too much for this to be practical, or possible). One example would be removing 10BaseT Ethernet as your Layer 1/2 technology and replacing it with FDDI, or ATM, or 100BaseTX Etherner.

Layer 3 is where routers operate. They know how to talk between IP subnets. They also have to know how to talk Layer 2 and Layer 1, so that they can get data out onto the physical wire, framed properly.

Routers maintain tables of IP address to MAC address assignements, so they know how to address the Layer 2 part of Ethernet frames when they're transmitted out onto the wire. When IPX was prevalent, they did the same thing for IPX. IPX is a dying Layer 3 protocol that even the creators, Novell, have decided to leave by the wayside. Most other Layer 3 protocols are also dying out, due to IP's dominance.

Switches, true switches, are Layer 1/2 devices. They have no idea what an IP address is, where it is inside the Ethernet frame (or Token Ring frame, or FDDI frame), or what to do if they see one. The only IP address some switches understand is their own management IP address. That's it.

Two machines talking across a switch are known to the switch by their Layer 2 MAC address. And they're seen as frames, not as packets. It's an important distinction. When a frame comes into a switch, it is possible for the switch to strip off the frame header and trailer, then repackage the date held within (the packet) into a new frame and send it out on a different Layer 1/2 technology. Good example would be an Ethernet to Token Ring switch, or an Ethernet to FDDI switch. Used to be that this process was handled by a multiprotocol bridge. Switches are decendants of bridges - more ports, faster speeds, etc.

Switches allow you to place each device on its own collision domain. A collision domain is the set of devices that vie for access to the local transmission medium. When you're directly connected to a switch port, the collision domain becomes you and the switch port.

Routers understand Layer 3. They talk IP, IPX, Appletalk, etc. They understand the logical subnetting that occurs at Layer 3. They use routing protocols (for those Layer 3 protocols that are routable) to manage figuring out how to get from one subnet to another, even if it isn't directly accessable via the router's interfaces. Routers can figure out how to get from, say, a 192.168.1.0 subnet to, say, the 10.0.0.0 network. If that's not possible, they can tell the host sending data that no, it isn't possible (ICMP Network Unreachable message, where ICMP stands for Internet Control Message Protocol).

Routers allow you to break up large networks into many smaller networks. One thing you need to keep in mind is that most Layer 3 protocols have a mechanism for communicating with other devices on the same subnet, without sending the data to each device individually. This is broadcast traffic. No matter how small your collision domains are, your PC could be inside a large broadcast domain. Every Address Resolution Protocol broadcast message (used to find the Layer 2 address of a device) goes to ALL devices in a broadcast domain. Say you have 10,000 machines you need to network, and you have what was considered to be a Class B address (roughly 65,000 individual IP addresses). Sure, you could put them all on the same IP subnet. Then, when any ONE machine ARPed for a Layer 2 address, ALL 10,000 would get that ARP request (as part of the spec, a device cannot ignore a broadcast frame). Routing updates, which are usually broadcast, would go to ALL 10,000 machines, even if they didn't listen to routing updates. You can see how this could easily overload a network.

What's done is that the Class B address is subnetted into many smaller IP subnets, allowing one to place machines that talk to each other frequently together on the same wire, and put machines that don't talk together often on separate wires. ARPs don't get sent to all 10,000 machines, as routers sit between the subnet, "lying" about the whereabouts of machines. Say you decide to subnet 172.16.0.0 into 254 networks of 254 hosts (24bit network mask, 8 bits for the host address). If your IP is 172.16.25.4 and you ARP for 172.16.3.72, the router on the 172.16.25.0 subnet will reply saying that it is 172.16.3.72. In reality, it'll take the data from 172.16.25.4 and send it along to 172.16.3.72, provided it knows where it lives.

Routers also allow you to connect dissimilar IP subnets together. This allows for such "tricks" as Network Address Translation. There are three subnet ranges that are NOT routeable across the Internet proper (http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1918.html)- 192.168.x.x, 10.x.x.x, and 172.16.x.x to 172.31.x.x. You're free to use these subnets inside your organization any way you see fit, so long as they NEVER get broadcast to the Internet. What cable/DSL routers like the LinkSys and Netgear boxes do is take your public Internet-routeable IP address, and, using Network Address Translation (http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2663.html), takes a private address space (usually the router's set up to use the 192.168.0.0 subnet), assigns your machines addresses in that range, then translates all your requests so that they look like they're coming from your one Internet-routable IP address.

In summary:

Switches break up collision domains. They do not understand IP addresses within Ethernet frames. They know devices by MAC address.

Routers break up broadcast domains. They understand IP, as well as underlying Layer 1/2 technologies. They are used to connect dissimilar IP subnets together.

Note that all of this is a GROSS SIMPLIFICATION of what routers and switches are CAPABLE of doing, and how they do it.

Hope this helps.

 

Tamdino

Junior Member
Jun 23, 2000
7
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IceStorm:

Thanks <b>MUCHO</b> Muchacho!!!

I know quite a bit about 'puters, but networking is my weak point. Slowly learning more and more. Thanks for adding to my internal, organically formatted, database.

--Tamdino--
 

cisco

Golden Member
Apr 19, 2000
1,236
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71
yea, what ice storm said sounds right...



even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent.
 

pylorns

Member
Jul 4, 2000
194
0
0
jeez. i am a pc tech but your explanation is so in depth, i almost want you to explain it again in englisgh.. but i got the jist of it.
 

Spiff

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
439
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0
TO even further simply what Ice Storm stated:

Routers can figure out how to get from, say, a 192.168.1.0 subnet to, say, the 10.0.0.0 network. A router is a gateway from one subnet of a network to another subnet. Routers primarlity talk to other routers. So if the subnet you wish to reach can only be reached by crossing several other subnets, then your data is passed from a your local router/gateway to another. That router then passes your data to another router and so forth.

Routers know where to send the data because they maintain tables of IP addresses and tlak to each other so that each router knows where the others are.

This is not all the same thing a switch does. This also has nothing whatsoever to do with DHCP or with static IP's. This is transparent to those things.
 

CTR

Senior member
Jun 12, 2000
654
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0
IceStorm -- I have a couple of questions about your post since you are obviously well-versed on the OSI model.

Aren't all Layer 3 protocols by definition routable?

Also, (this may just be a difference in terminology) I believe that Ethernet &quot;frames&quot; do not contain an IP address or any kind of layer 3 information since they are layer 2. At layer 3, it would be a packet (or segment or datagram if you are talking about connection-oriented or connectionless protocols), which is an Ethernet frame with layer 3 protocol information at the head and tail of the frame. Once the frame makes it to the destination, the layer 2 addressing is stripped and you have the payload, correct?

I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, I'm just interested in this topic and don't mind conversing about it.
 

IceStorm

Senior member
Feb 7, 2000
209
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0
Q: Aren't all Layer 3 protocols by definition routable?
A: No, NetBIOS isn't (or is it NetBEUI? One of those two). Windows encapsulates these inside IP. There's probably others, but that's the one I know off the top of my head. If you look at the packets on a sniffer, you'll see it - Ethernet encapsulating IP encapsulating NetBIOS.

Q: Also, (this may just be a difference in terminology) I believe that Ethernet &quot;frames&quot; do not contain an IP address or any kind of layer 3 information since they are layer 2. At layer 3, it would be a packet (or segment or datagram if you are talking about connection-oriented or connectionless protocols), which is an Ethernet frame with layer 3 protocol information at the head and tail of the frame. Once the frame makes it to the destination, the layer 2 addressing is stripped and you have the payload, correct?

A: The frame is used to encapsulate the packet. The frame does contain Layer 3 data, but the Layer 2 device which moves the frames from the source to the destination device can't &quot;see&quot; the IP part of the frame. This is changing with new &quot;Layer 3/4 switches&quot; and routers which incorporate wire-speed routing using switching technology, but a basic Layer 2 switch doesn't know how to read past the frame header.

If the frame didn't contain the Layer 3 information, it wouldn't be too useful. The point of the layers was to abstract things so that you could upgrade a layer without a need to upgrade the other layers above and below it.

You might be thinking of framing, not frame. The frame itself holds everything. The bits used to frame the IP packet don't contain IP information, so when you're framing the packet, the extra information added in the process doesn't include the IP address. Nevertheless, the packet is stored inside the frame, and the Layer 2 device treats it as payload.
 

IceStorm

Senior member
Feb 7, 2000
209
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0
I do it for a living. I'm not professing to be an expert.

I do network operations for a living. I don't get to design things from the ground up, I get to fix what breaks. It's critical to know what tool to use when things break, or to prove that the part that is broken isn't the network (no, not being able to log in does NOT mean the network, or even your subnet, is down).
 

IceStorm

Senior member
Feb 7, 2000
209
0
0
No, no certs. Haven't bothered to take the CCNA test yet. I'm more hands-on. Nothing ever works the way the manual says it should.
 

AdamDuritz99

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2000
3,233
0
71
Hey ice, i agree that nothing hardly ever work the ways the manual says it is, but i honestly think you should try to get your CCNA. I'm about to get mine in august. just b/c of that little paper you will be get offered better jobs and reconized more for you knowledge. a $100 is well worth it. you really should take it!
 

IceStorm

Senior member
Feb 7, 2000
209
0
0
Heh. I'm not jumping ship for a while. The company I'm with isn't public... yet. Plus, the firm I'm with has plenty of opportunities within the company proper - plenty of other contracts I could be assigned to or move to.

I also like working three or four nights a week and being off the other three or four. It'll make getting into the swing of Neocron that much easier if I'm still working this shift a year from now.

 
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