What is an engineer?

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Analog

Originally posted by: Aharami
you're not an engineer unless you have a PE cert

Don't be a troll.

Someone like me, who is a professor of electrical engineering, specializing in semiconductor devices, has no need for a PE. So I'm not an engineer? :roll:

If I was designing a sewer system for a city, then I'd probably need the PE for that type of work. Does that make that person an engineer?

BJT! NPN! MOSFET!

/me liked semiconducters

 

[badkarma1399]

I don't know why everyone wants to be an engineer anyways. They're all a bunch of socially awkward virgin-nerds anyways.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Analog

Originally posted by: Aharami
you're not an engineer unless you have a PE cert

Don't be a troll.

Someone like me, who is a professor of electrical engineering, specializing in semiconductor devices, has no need for a PE. So I'm not an engineer? :roll:

If I was designing a sewer system for a city, then I'd probably need the PE for that type of work. Does that make that person an engineer?

BJT! NPN! MOSFET!

/me liked semiconducters

me to!!

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: badkarma1399
I don't know why everyone wants to be an engineer anyways. They're all a bunch of socially awkward virgin-nerds anyways.

IM NOT A VIRGIN!

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: KillerCharlie

Originally posted by: Aharami
you're not an engineer unless you have a PE cert

So all the aerospace engineers that design spacecraft and airplanes aren't engineers? PEs are worthless in most engineering fields.

I vote that an engineer (by education) is someone who has an ABET-accredited engineering degree.

prettymuch. as far as what engineers do, though, is they take science and mathematics and apply it at a practical level where the end result is a product.

compsci is often lumped in with the engineering dept (as it is in my school) because it's close to computer engineering, but it tackles only the programming side (please correct me if i'm wrong).

my understanding is that

CS = software
computer engineering = software/hardware

and the whole "you're not an engineer if you don't have a PE" is bullshit IMO. i earned my degree, therefore i'm an engineer. PE is simply extra. so am i an engineer? yes. am i a PE? no.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Engineering - ?The creative application of scientific principles to design or develop structures, machines, apparatus, or manufacturing processes, or works utilizing them singly or in combination; or to construct or operate the same with full cognizance of their design; or to forecast their behavior under specific operating conditions; all as respects an intended function, economics of operation and safety to life and property.?

If you do that, you're an engineer, at least for whatever period of time you are actively engaging in engineering.

You are what you do, and only for however long you do it.

 

[jteef]

i like the Calc 3 definition.

I am one of 2 real engineers in an office with 100 others who call themselves engineers and they dont even know what a cosine is, much less a secant or an integral.

I used to really hate the term software engineer, because basically they are coders with project management experience. There are some instances i'll allow it, such as compiler optimization, some modeling & simulation software designers, and a couple other cases.

Anybody know if you need a PE to design medical equipment?

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: txrandom

The reason I ask is because some people at work call themselves network engineers but none of them went to a four year university for engineering or even have CCNAs.

Do you get bothered when non-engineers use the title "xxx engineer"?

Well in their case, that's their job title. I know some people don't like that job title but it's been that way for a long, long time.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Well, a Combat Engineer (such as myself) uses a mine detector to find enemy caches of weapons, and bomb making materials. Then we get to blow stuff it up. Or use several explosive charges to breach a building/room or anything else. For starters.

there is no such thing as a combat engineer. they do not offer PEs in combat engineering.

You're using a very narrow usage of the word and trying to claim that word for yourself. The term "engineer" has been around longer than your definition.

I think your viewpoint reeks of smuggery and elitism. It's a selfish, exclusionary viewpoint that's basically crying out, "I'm one of the only real <insert job title here>"

 

[Safeway]

In my mind, a true Engineer is a PE. A true engineer can sign off on technical drawings and assume complete responsibility and liability for any future occurrences. In fact, in many states, it is illegal to create a company with Engineering in the title without having a PE.

I know times have changed, and peoples' opinions have changed of what qualifies someone as an engineer. In that case, I like the ABET-accredited engineering degree requirement, mentioned above.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Well, a Combat Engineer (such as myself) uses a mine detector to find enemy caches of weapons, and bomb making materials. Then we get to blow stuff it up. Or use several explosive charges to breach a building/room or anything else. For starters.

there is no such thing as a combat engineer. they do not offer PEs in combat engineering.

You're using a very narrow usage of the word and trying to claim that word for yourself. The term "engineer" has been around longer than your definition.

I think your viewpoint reeks of smuggery and elitism. It's a selfish, exclusionary viewpoint that's basically crying out, "I'm one of the only real <insert job title here>"

i suffered through 5 years of engineering curriculum, i think i deserve to be smug and elite.

 

[TecHNooB]

An good engineer can:
a.) Do the math.
b.) Build the design related to the math.
c.) Fully understand the ins and outs of the design.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Well, a Combat Engineer (such as myself) uses a mine detector to find enemy caches of weapons, and bomb making materials. Then we get to blow stuff it up. Or use several explosive charges to breach a building/room or anything else. For starters.

there is no such thing as a combat engineer. they do not offer PEs in combat engineering.

You're using a very narrow usage of the word and trying to claim that word for yourself. The term "engineer" has been around longer than your definition.

I think your viewpoint reeks of smuggery and elitism. It's a selfish, exclusionary viewpoint that's basically crying out, "I'm one of the only real <insert job title here>"

i suffered through 5 years of engineering curriculum, i think i deserve to be smug and elite.

Nope, sorry. Nobody cares.

 

[Safeway]

Laws exist in the U.S., in Canada and in South Africa that limit the use specific engineer titles, particularly the title of "Professional Engineer." However, most engineers in the U.S. do not become professional engineers. Titles indicating a specific, regulated branch of engineering, such as "civil engineer" or "mechanical engineer" are also regulated. Most U.S. states prohibit unlicensed persons from calling themselves an "engineer" or indicating branches or specialties not covered by the licensing acts. The IEEE's formal position on this is as follows:

"The title, Engineer, and its derivatives should be reserved for those individuals whose education and experience qualify them to practice in a manner that protects public safety. Strict use of the title serves the interest of both the IEEE-USA and the public by providing a recognized designation by which those qualified to practice engineering may be identified. The education and experience needed for the title, Engineer, is evidenced by

* Graduation with an Engineering degree from an ABET/EAC accredited program of engineering (or equivalent*), coupled with sufficient experience in the field in which the term, Engineer, is used; and/or

* Licensure by any jurisdiction as a Professional Engineer.

* A degree from a foreign institution (or the total education when one person holds a graduate degree in engineering but no accredited B.S. in engineering) can be evaluated through a service offered by ABET."

Despite these laws, many individuals with no formal education in engineering are still often called engineers because of a history of engineering work.

So what this say is:

1) ABET-accredited degree should not be an Engineer unless coupled with proper experience.
2) PE license gets you the Engineer title.
3) No formal degree, no Engineering title.
4) People continue to call themselves Engineers even though it is illegal.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Well, a Combat Engineer (such as myself) uses a mine detector to find enemy caches of weapons, and bomb making materials. Then we get to blow stuff it up. Or use several explosive charges to breach a building/room or anything else. For starters.

there is no such thing as a combat engineer. they do not offer PEs in combat engineering.

You're using a very narrow usage of the word and trying to claim that word for yourself. The term "engineer" has been around longer than your definition.

I think your viewpoint reeks of smuggery and elitism. It's a selfish, exclusionary viewpoint that's basically crying out, "I'm one of the only real <insert job title here>"

i suffered through 5 years of engineering curriculum, i think i deserve to be smug and elite.

No, you don't. Your experiences may be completely irrelevant to some people and it would be illogical to think that you somehow should gain some advantage over them for having experienced it.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Well, a Combat Engineer (such as myself) uses a mine detector to find enemy caches of weapons, and bomb making materials. Then we get to blow stuff it up. Or use several explosive charges to breach a building/room or anything else. For starters.

there is no such thing as a combat engineer. they do not offer PEs in combat engineering.

You're using a very narrow usage of the word and trying to claim that word for yourself. The term "engineer" has been around longer than your definition.

I think your viewpoint reeks of smuggery and elitism. It's a selfish, exclusionary viewpoint that's basically crying out, "I'm one of the only real <insert job title here>"

i suffered through 5 years of engineering curriculum, i think i deserve to be smug and elite.

No, you don't. Your experiences may be completely irrelevant to some people and it would be illogical to think that you somehow should gain some advantage over them for having experienced it.

k. whatever, i still have a BSEE and can get a job wherever i want. so i have some advantage.

 

[herm0016]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Well, a Combat Engineer (such as myself) uses a mine detector to find enemy caches of weapons, and bomb making materials. Then we get to blow stuff it up. Or use several explosive charges to breach a building/room or anything else. For starters.

there is no such thing as a combat engineer. they do not offer PEs in combat engineering.

You're using a very narrow usage of the word and trying to claim that word for yourself. The term "engineer" has been around longer than your definition.

I think your viewpoint reeks of smuggery and elitism. It's a selfish, exclusionary viewpoint that's basically crying out, "I'm one of the only real <insert job title here>"

i suffered through 5 years of engineering curriculum, i think i deserve to be smug and elite.

i suffered through 4.5 years of engineering curriculum and do not agree. anyone can be an engineer. some of the most brilliant "engineers" i have worked with have no degree but have an intuition for solving problems. I believe that that intuition makes one an engineer.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Safeway

Laws exist in the U.S., in Canada and in South Africa that limit the use specific engineer titles, particularly the title of "Professional Engineer." However, most engineers in the U.S. do not become professional engineers. Titles indicating a specific, regulated branch of engineering, such as "civil engineer" or "mechanical engineer" are also regulated. Most U.S. states prohibit unlicensed persons from calling themselves an "engineer" or indicating branches or specialties not covered by the licensing acts. The IEEE's formal position on this is as follows:

"The title, Engineer, and its derivatives should be reserved for those individuals whose education and experience qualify them to practice in a manner that protects public safety. Strict use of the title serves the interest of both the IEEE-USA and the public by providing a recognized designation by which those qualified to practice engineering may be identified. The education and experience needed for the title, Engineer, is evidenced by

* Graduation with an Engineering degree from an ABET/EAC accredited program of engineering (or equivalent*), coupled with sufficient experience in the field in which the term, Engineer, is used; and/or

* Licensure by any jurisdiction as a Professional Engineer.

* A degree from a foreign institution (or the total education when one person holds a graduate degree in engineering but no accredited B.S. in engineering) can be evaluated through a service offered by ABET."

Despite these laws, many individuals with no formal education in engineering are still often called engineers because of a history of engineering work.

So what this say is:

1) ABET-accredited degree should not be an Engineer unless coupled with proper experience.
2) PE license gets you the Engineer title.
3) No formal degree, no Engineering title.
4) People continue to call themselves Engineers even though it is illegal.

You're referring to a narrow scope of engineering such as mechanical engineering or civil engineering. There are many other fields out there that have the title of engineer that do not involve those disciplines. For example, someone who operates a train is an engineer. Who are you to tell them that they can't use their rightful title even though that usage has been around longer than yours has?

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Safeway

Laws exist in the U.S., in Canada and in South Africa that limit the use specific engineer titles, particularly the title of "Professional Engineer." However, most engineers in the U.S. do not become professional engineers. Titles indicating a specific, regulated branch of engineering, such as "civil engineer" or "mechanical engineer" are also regulated. Most U.S. states prohibit unlicensed persons from calling themselves an "engineer" or indicating branches or specialties not covered by the licensing acts. The IEEE's formal position on this is as follows:

"The title, Engineer, and its derivatives should be reserved for those individuals whose education and experience qualify them to practice in a manner that protects public safety. Strict use of the title serves the interest of both the IEEE-USA and the public by providing a recognized designation by which those qualified to practice engineering may be identified. The education and experience needed for the title, Engineer, is evidenced by

* Graduation with an Engineering degree from an ABET/EAC accredited program of engineering (or equivalent*), coupled with sufficient experience in the field in which the term, Engineer, is used; and/or

* Licensure by any jurisdiction as a Professional Engineer.

* A degree from a foreign institution (or the total education when one person holds a graduate degree in engineering but no accredited B.S. in engineering) can be evaluated through a service offered by ABET."

Despite these laws, many individuals with no formal education in engineering are still often called engineers because of a history of engineering work.

So what this say is:

1) ABET-accredited degree should not be an Engineer unless coupled with proper experience.
2) PE license gets you the Engineer title.
3) No formal degree, no Engineering title.
4) People continue to call themselves Engineers even though it is illegal.

You're referring to a narrow scope of engineering such as mechanical engineering or civil engineering. There are many other fields out there that have the title of engineer that do not involve those disciplines. For example, someone who operates a train is an engineer. Who are you to tell them that they can't use their rightful title even though that usage has been around longer than yours has?

These rules apply to all engineering fields.

And a train operator is a conductor.

 

[TecHNooB]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Safeway

Laws exist in the U.S., in Canada and in South Africa that limit the use specific engineer titles, particularly the title of "Professional Engineer." However, most engineers in the U.S. do not become professional engineers. Titles indicating a specific, regulated branch of engineering, such as "civil engineer" or "mechanical engineer" are also regulated. Most U.S. states prohibit unlicensed persons from calling themselves an "engineer" or indicating branches or specialties not covered by the licensing acts. The IEEE's formal position on this is as follows:

"The title, Engineer, and its derivatives should be reserved for those individuals whose education and experience qualify them to practice in a manner that protects public safety. Strict use of the title serves the interest of both the IEEE-USA and the public by providing a recognized designation by which those qualified to practice engineering may be identified. The education and experience needed for the title, Engineer, is evidenced by

* Graduation with an Engineering degree from an ABET/EAC accredited program of engineering (or equivalent*), coupled with sufficient experience in the field in which the term, Engineer, is used; and/or

* Licensure by any jurisdiction as a Professional Engineer.

* A degree from a foreign institution (or the total education when one person holds a graduate degree in engineering but no accredited B.S. in engineering) can be evaluated through a service offered by ABET."

Despite these laws, many individuals with no formal education in engineering are still often called engineers because of a history of engineering work.

So what this say is:

1) ABET-accredited degree should not be an Engineer unless coupled with proper experience.
2) PE license gets you the Engineer title.
3) No formal degree, no Engineering title.
4) People continue to call themselves Engineers even though it is illegal.

You're referring to a narrow scope of engineering such as mechanical engineering or civil engineering. There are many other fields out there that have the title of engineer that do not involve those disciplines. For example, someone who operates a train is an engineer. Who are you to tell them that they can't use their rightful title even though that usage has been around longer than yours has?

The idea is we want qualified people to have the Engineer title. Otherwise I'll start calling myself doctor from now on.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

k. whatever, i still have a BSEE and can get a job wherever i want. so i have some advantage.

That is completely irrelevant information. This discussion isn't about your ability to find a job, it's about the legitimacy of people calling themselves "engineers".

You're just being childish, sort of like the kid that likes to horde all the toys. "No, that title's MINE, you can't use it!!!"

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JohnCU

k. whatever, i still have a BSEE and can get a job wherever i want. so i have some advantage.

That is completely irrelevant information. This discussion isn't about your ability to find a job, it's about the legitimacy of people calling themselves "engineers".

You're just being childish, sort of like the kid that likes to horde all the toys. "No, that title's MINE, you can't use it!!!"

yes, the title is mine, because i suffered through classes like electromagnetics and statics and advanced engineering calculus. the others didn't.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Safeway


And a train operator is a conductor.

Wrong. Do you have any idea about what you're talking about, or do you just confidently post bullshit in the hope that it sticks?

A train engineer is NOT the same person who is the conductor.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Safeway


And a train operator is a conductor.

Wrong. Do you have any idea about what you're talking about, or do you just confidently post bullshit in the hope that it sticks?

A train engineer is NOT the same person who is the conductor.

Look man, you want to talk about people without a clue, look at yourself. I posted the law, a completely valid and thought-out post.

You start attacking me. When you can't attack the post, attack the poster, right?

Anyway, I'm not looking to insult you any further than you have insulted yourself.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: TecHNooB

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Safeway

Laws exist in the U.S., in Canada and in South Africa that limit the use specific engineer titles, particularly the title of "Professional Engineer." However, most engineers in the U.S. do not become professional engineers. Titles indicating a specific, regulated branch of engineering, such as "civil engineer" or "mechanical engineer" are also regulated. Most U.S. states prohibit unlicensed persons from calling themselves an "engineer" or indicating branches or specialties not covered by the licensing acts. The IEEE's formal position on this is as follows:

"The title, Engineer, and its derivatives should be reserved for those individuals whose education and experience qualify them to practice in a manner that protects public safety. Strict use of the title serves the interest of both the IEEE-USA and the public by providing a recognized designation by which those qualified to practice engineering may be identified. The education and experience needed for the title, Engineer, is evidenced by

* Graduation with an Engineering degree from an ABET/EAC accredited program of engineering (or equivalent*), coupled with sufficient experience in the field in which the term, Engineer, is used; and/or

* Licensure by any jurisdiction as a Professional Engineer.

* A degree from a foreign institution (or the total education when one person holds a graduate degree in engineering but no accredited B.S. in engineering) can be evaluated through a service offered by ABET."

Despite these laws, many individuals with no formal education in engineering are still often called engineers because of a history of engineering work.

So what this say is:

1) ABET-accredited degree should not be an Engineer unless coupled with proper experience.
2) PE license gets you the Engineer title.
3) No formal degree, no Engineering title.
4) People continue to call themselves Engineers even though it is illegal.

You're referring to a narrow scope of engineering such as mechanical engineering or civil engineering. There are many other fields out there that have the title of engineer that do not involve those disciplines. For example, someone who operates a train is an engineer. Who are you to tell them that they can't use their rightful title even though that usage has been around longer than yours has?

The idea is we want qualified people to have the Engineer title. Otherwise I'll start calling myself doctor from now on.

The conditions that were stated before apply to engineering trades such as designing buildings, planes, roads, etc. Those conditions were created so that you couldn't have a guy or a firm claiming that he could be engineer in those fields even though he has no certification.

Those conditions do not apply to unrelated fields whose jobs have engineer in the title, such as network engineer or a train engineer.