What is it about Windows that everybody likes? (A rant)

[Skaendo]

Windows has more choice when it comes to third-party software.

So many that it'll make your head spin. Thats one of the reasons I use Linux on my daily laptop. I don't need a million different CD burning apps just as an example, give me one cd burning app that if full featured and can do everything that all your windows ones can do put together.

This point was hammered home when I couldn't figure out the convoluted instructions for getting my network printer installed on Ubuntu. This install was trivially easy on Win7.

It ticked me off a little bit when my flatbed scanner was no longer supported, by the manufacturer, or windows. All I could find was a app that they were charging $100 for. My scanner worked out of the box in Debian, didn't even have to install it.

#1 - microsoft office (they use it at work, they edit work docs at home)

LibreOffice

#2 - games

I do agree there.

 

[Defenestration]

So many that it'll make your head spin. Thats one of the reasons I use Linux on my daily laptop. I don't need a million different CD burning apps just as an example, give me one cd burning app that if full featured and can do everything that all your windows ones can do put together.

I agree some/a lot are crap, but I'd rather have choice than no/little choice.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

So many that it'll make your head spin. Thats one of the reasons I use Linux on my daily laptop. I don't need a million different CD burning apps just as an example, give me one cd burning app that if full featured and can do everything that all your windows ones can do put together.

1. Nobody outside Japan uses CDs anymore
2. https://cdburnerxp.se/en/download

It ticked me off a little bit when my flatbed scanner was no longer supported, by the manufacturer, or windows. All I could find was a app that they were charging $100 for. My scanner worked out of the box in Debian, didn't even have to install it.

I can't speak for your experience, but peripheral software support is notoriously poor no matter the OS.

LibreOffice

LibreOffice is pretty terrible, no joke. To be fair, MS Office is pretty terrible too, but LibreOffice is worse.

I do agree there.

http://steamforlinux.com/

 

[Skaendo]

http://steamforlinux.com/

No COD BO2? How about Destiny? Nope. I'll continue gaming on my PS3 thank you very much.

 

[Eric1987]

I am surprised I saw Witcher 2 and Metro LL. Impressive! If it had the gaming support of windows I'd switch in a second.

 

[Cerb]

1. Nobody outside Japan uses CDs anymore

Yes, they do. Not everyone is in a trendy office with all iPads and cloud-everything. But, there's actually fewer good choices in Linux-land, with K3b being the one sane people use.

Plus, there's the reading side. I've already ripped over 30 CDs this month, and still am waiting on more in the mail . Regardless of who is most at fault for it, the selection of digitally distributed content that is equivalent to CD, or as cheap as CDs, isn't too big, yet. It seems to be getting there, but slowly. Apple seems to be only one selling major label digital lossless, usually at inflated cost v. buying a CD version.

LibreOffice is pretty terrible, no joke. To be fair, MS Office is pretty terrible too, but LibreOffice is worse.

I very much disagree. I have to use it daily, but have found nothing I prefer over LibreOffice, and each version they add more that I dislike than that I like. For example, Excel on multiple monitors requires a registry hack, still, for Office 2013. Why should that be required to have two spreadsheets up? Not to mention the UI that's nothing like anything else in the host OS, which has been an issue for a long time, but has gotten worse lately. Then, Outlook on IMAP breaks fairly regularly, now, when 2007 and 2010 were, and still are, solid (against that I use Thunderbird). LibreOffice is far from perfect, but I'll take it over Office any chance I get.

http://steamforlinux.com/

And any given person's library probably has 2 or 3 games for Linux, v. 100+ for Windows. Even if it does succeed, it's going to take years. I'm hopeful, but it's going to be an uphill battle for Steam.

 

[Cerb]

I am surprised I saw Witcher 2 and Metro LL. Impressive! If it had the gaming support of windows I'd switch in a second.

GoG is also starting Linux support, so I would expect TW3 and CP2077 in the future, as well.

 

[massmedia]

Here's the deal with Microsoft Office vs Libre Office:

The Corporate World and much of the non corporate world uses MS office.

So even though I use libre office at home as a declaration of independence from Microsoft, I still need to have Microsoft Office for when I need to edit work documents at home.

It doesn't matter that Microsoft Office can be replaced with Libre Office in terms of functionality... the proprietary formats in office act as an infectious agent and induce me to install Microsoft Office at home even when I'd rather not have to have it at all.

 

[massmedia]

The person who uses professional software tends to get shoved towards windows as well since lots of that stuff is made for the largest market... windows.

I'd love nothing more than to take the windows out and bring the GNU Linux in.
It's the software that I'd like to use (specialized & gaming) and it's the file formats that I need to read and save to (microsoft office) that keep me locked in windows.

Cure that and I'd gladly say goodbye to Windows, backdoors and all.

 

[alkemyst]

#1 - microsoft office (they use it at work, they edit work docs at home)
#2 - games

that's really enough of an explanation right there... but wait, there's more!

some other software (not sure if these run on GNU linux):
Autodesk AutoCAD
Autodesk Maya
Autodesk 3DS Max
Autodesk....
...
...
Autodesk Architecture
Adobe Photoshop
Adobe Illustrator
Adobe Premier Pro
....
....
Adobe Lightroom
CorelDRAW
Avid Media Composer
Avid Sibelius
Avid Pro Tools
EON VUE
Speedtree


...and even more games


------------------
to say that GNU linux has all the same or equivalent offerings is a tad incorrect

QFT

 

[lxskllr]

Here's the deal with Microsoft Office vs Libre Office:

The Corporate World and much of the non corporate world uses MS office.

So even though I use libre office at home as a declaration of independence from Microsoft, I still need to have Microsoft Office for when I need to edit work documents at home.

It doesn't matter that Microsoft Office can be replaced with Libre Office in terms of functionality... the proprietary formats in office act as an infectious agent and induce me to install Microsoft Office at home even when I'd rather not have to have it at all.

I use Xubuntu at work, and everything I create is odf format. Clients get pdfs. I have three programs I use a Windows vm for. Two of those I should be able get working even better than Windows in Xubuntu via scripting. The third is problematic. I'd basically have to write a new program. I could /probably/ do it in a spreadsheet, but my knowledge isn't deep enough to fully check for accuracy, and it needs to be accurate.

 

[bbhaag]

My guess is familiarity, compatibility, and uniformity. That's why people use Windows.

 

[Skaendo]

Ok, so after listening to people here and a ton of research, here is the conclusion that I have come to.

People prefer Windows because Bill Gates is a very smart person and was in it in the early days and at a crucial time in computer history.

*
A little history:

In 1969 the unnamed PDP-7 operating system was created and by 1971 it had evolved as Unix. (Which the original Unix OS ceased production from Bell Labs By 1990)
In 1975 the Apple 1 was released. Built by Steve Wozniak.
July 1976 the Apple I was demonstrated at the Homebrew Computer Club (Bill Gates is a member at this time)
1977 Apple II's release, running on the Integer Basic OS.
1980 Apple releases the Apple III & III Plus. Which failed immensely due to programming errors in the Apple SOS (OS).

This is where I think it happened: Bill Gates seen the Apple III fail and seen his opportunity.

By 1981 Bill Gates has began working on Windows. In 1985 Windows 1.0 (a shell for 86-DOS later to become MS-DOS) was released.
1983 GNU OS begins development (open source software with a Unix proprietary kernel)
1987 Windows 2.0
1990 Windows 3.0

So after being around for 10 years, people got used to Windows.

By 1991 Linus Torvalds had created the Linux kernel thus giving birth to the GNU/Linux OS.
1993 gives birth to Debian & Slackware (fork of SLS) but these are not the oldest distros although there only a handful older.
1995 Windows 95 (First OEM release)
*

Now after 30+ years, it has just become the norm.

I blame it partly on the failure of the Apple III which probably made a huge impact on the sale of their products that they have never recovered from (in market share).

Now Linux, never had a chance because it is a late player in the game. But I think that time will tell on this one yet.

That's fine with me. I'm happy with things the way that they are. I will continue to use Windows and Linux both, with Linux as my main/preferred, on different machines and for different purposes.

Now this is one of the things that makes me a proud Linux user:
As of June 2013, more than 95% of the world's 500 fastest supercomputers run some variant of Linux, including all the 44 fastest.

 

[BD2003]

I think the implication that the primary reason we use windows is because we're complacent is a little insulting. I think you'd have a point if we were back in the 90s, but windows has evolved from an unstable, insecure and outright terrible OS into a genuinely well designed piece of software.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Here's the deal with Microsoft Office vs Libre Office:

The Corporate World and much of the non corporate world uses MS office.

So even though I use libre office at home as a declaration of independence from Microsoft, I still need to have Microsoft Office for when I need to edit work documents at home.

It doesn't matter that Microsoft Office can be replaced with Libre Office in terms of functionality... the proprietary formats in office act as an infectious agent and induce me to install Microsoft Office at home even when I'd rather not have to have it at all.

LibreOffice opens, edits, and saves Office format files just fine.

 

[Skaendo]

I think the implication that the primary reason we use windows is because we're complacent is a little insulting. I think you'd have a point if we were back in the 90s, but windows has evolved from an unstable, insecure and outright terrible OS into a genuinely well designed piece of software.

Complacent? Doesn't seem like the right word in this context.

I guess to sum it up is that Bill Gates was in the right place at the right time with the right knowledge and drive to make it happen. Now it is just taken for granted by the majority. ie; this is a computer and computers run Windows. And most people don't know that you have an option.

 

[massmedia]

LibreOffice opens, edits, and saves Office format files just fine.

:hmm:I guess I just haven't tried to work with office docs because I was afraid to save in office and send off to co-workers.

I think I'll have to give it a try now.

 

[sonitravel09]

Windows 8 has no chance for me. I skip Windows 8 and enhance my work on Linux systems. I do this since years and maybe I get the switch in a few years.

 

[Mem]

Windows 8 has no chance for me. I skip Windows 8 and enhance my work on Linux systems. I do this since years and maybe I get the switch in a few years.

As I stated earlier I need Windows for PC gaming,I've been lucky with Linux since everything just works on fresh install on both hardware and driver wise with three different Linux distros I use so happy using them long term.


I think Linux greatest strengths is it weakness ie too many distros,they really need to have one official distro as a template for gaming and everything else,if they can manage that and get support with good backing it may take off,Ubuntu has been trying to do this for awhile now but is up against so many Linux distros let alone Windows.

 

[ControlD]

LibreOffice opens, edits, and saves Office format files just fine.

It will provided those are just basic documents.

At least half the reason I stick with Office is for the VBA functionality. Unless something has changed recently no other office suite can handle Office docs using more than basic VBA macros embedded.

 

[lxskllr]

It will provided those are just basic documents.

At least half the reason I stick with Office is for the VBA functionality. Unless something has changed recently no other office suite can handle Office docs using more than basic VBA macros embedded.

VBA is proprietary software. Libre software will never implement it well. No loss to me.

 

[ControlD]

VBA is proprietary software. Libre software will never implement it well. No loss to me.

Understood. I require such functionality for work so I don't get to apply my personal preferences in regards to libre versus closed.

 

[Imaginer]

The person who uses professional software tends to get shoved towards windows as well since lots of that stuff is made for the largest market... windows.

I'd love nothing more than to take the windows out and bring the GNU Linux in.
It's the software that I'd like to use (specialized & gaming) and it's the file formats that I need to read and save to (microsoft office) that keep me locked in windows.

Cure that and I'd gladly say goodbye to Windows, backdoors and all.

And let me tell you why. Stability, proven workable configurations on flexible hardware options, and ease of installation with proper resources to manage the software suite in development that can be pushed to the user through teams of coding in a high level software managed manner.

Nothing against Linux, but the whole movement seems very amateur still in software development in software configuration. Too many times I see those vouching for Linux needing to search for many command line based functions for any sort of configuration, when that mess should really be a part of the intended software suite one is working in inside the OS.

In short, the command line, should be a last resort in configuration. Proper software development should have planned out everything that would be a utility to be a part of the intended software suite. That is also why MS Office despite the proclaimed "proprietary" formats (last I checked, all formats are based on an open structure-ish) is used and very seldom that a user would actually need to get down to the bit and bytes of a file format when all of the necessary formatting options are right there inside the software suite of use.

As far as being lean - hardware today is pretty cheap, affordable for the capacity, and in many forms for what the user needs. To the user that says "good enough" - essentially that is what Windows is for me. Good enough to allow me to quickly initially set a computer up and get to work on the software programs and suites I use (apps or fuller applications otherwise).

It was also Microsoft that gave the Tablet PC definition over time, starting with Windows XP (but maybe even earlier). Because of this, there are some built in features I cannot even have in Linux, such as handwriting recognition, or a built in narrator text to voice function. Someone mentioned needing to shift through many CD burning programs, but come to today, the built in burner in Windows Explorer or File Explorer is good enough that I forgone my install of Nero from my XP days.

It is also effortlessly supported, through the core Windows updates over time. I can still skim through the Knowledge Base they link to see what exactly they solve and dive down to the MSDN to see if it is relevant before pushing that update. Any instability issue now with Windows that brings up the blue screen is purely hardware or a firmware miss implementation from now on as I have not had a blue screen in ages.

If one needs to implement new hardware, no matter what the OS, command lines cannot get you any further without a necessary implementation of a hardware/software driver set, things that should be programmed as an interface from the get go and then packaged to be effortlessly implemented. With Windows, the wide array of continued hardware implementations still remain strong on a consumer periphery and in some cases industry periphery and use. Driver models have changed little from Vista-7-8 if done properly.

I am not even diving into the games territory which this forum is well familiar with. The Ribbon interface of several programs I use (either from the side "ribbon" of art programs to the top "ribbon" of CAD has everything inclusive. Even in CAD, the command line is strictly applicable in the software suite I am using, no need to invoke OS level commands - because it is simply not needed or relevant to the software suite I deal with.

There is also way too much micromanaging with Linux in many cases. As I said, Windows' settings are pretty much thought out to the point of good enough that many needed user access and power user access settings are there with an interface access, no need for a command line access unless REALLY needed or a quicker way of bypass. It is similar to having a user wanting to now manage what a CPU's branch predictor does to the point of OCD, when one is wasting time in that effort versus applying that effort to more higher productive means. Tinkering for the sake of tinkering is never a highlight in my book and that is what Linux also advocates in their culture (not a bad thing, but actual life applications and work needs to be done and a "good enough" area needs to be drawn). Why re-invent the wheel many times when one can take from a selection of wheels with software that works well in the majority society for effortless collaboration and interface and run with it?

Also, Microsoft put in the market my Surface Pro 2. Linux or any amateur effort can never hoped to even try something as bold that works (being stuck in the laptop upgrade mentality without any such of tradeoffs in design).

 

[dave_the_nerd]

:hmm:I guess I just haven't tried to work with office docs because I was afraid to save in office and send off to co-workers.

I think I'll have to give it a try now.

I don't do much crazy weird formatting and I haven't tried document revisioning personally (And visual basic macros in Excel are out) but the basics (tables, footnotes, rich text formatting options) work fine.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Too many times I see those vouching for Linux needing to search for many command line based functions for any sort of configuration, when that mess should really be a part of the intended software suite one is working in inside the OS.

Pretty much this.

When you ask for an "easy to use beginner oriented Linux distro" and are told, "Well, ___ is the best - you'll only have to learn a little CLI" well... it's like the groundhog. You take it out every February, it tells you if winter is over, then you put it back in its hole and ignore it for another year.