What is Linux missing that you would require to complete get off Windows?

[BFG10K]

A command line isn't crappy just cause don't know how to use it.

No, it sucks because I have no need for it.

And yes, KDE does have a global clipboard.
You're obviously speaking of things that you don't have a clue about.

Oh really? So you can copy a word processed document with formatted fonts, sizes and colours, pictures, tables and charts straight into an email program (for example) and retain all the formatting? I'd like to see a screenshot of this so please oblige if you can.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

What did WinXP offer that Win2k didnt?

-Driver rollback.

Dont buy crappy hardware.

-System restore.

Is your OS this fragile?

-Native CD burning.

As opposed to the free programs that work fine?

-Native zip support.

As opposed to the programs out there that are working fine?

-More low level control of devices in the device manager.
-Large icons.

Oooooh

-More system options and controls.
-Native firewall and wireless network support.

Dont call that a firewall. What OS hasnt had network support for the past year or so?

-SIMD optimisations for Pentium4 and Athlon/Palomino processors.

Finally optimizing code?

-Enhanced multitasking performance.

Yet pipe performance is worse?

-Remote desktop and remote assistance.

Remote adminitration has been present in Linux since the beginning. Welcome to '91.

-Enhanced multimedia and gaming performance and compatibility.

Again, we go back to manually doing the work. Great.

As opposed to the distros having...no form of update at all?

up2date, apt-get, cvs, etc

Besides, the manual update is so easy even a monkey can manage it. Also it's automatic by default except only your nitpicks keep it from being so.

Its automatic in XP. Ive never touched XP.

I think thats it, but since you edit the posts a lot,

LOL, the post you responded to didn't even have an edit tag. That' reaching, even for you. Sad and reaching.

Heh, ok.

Do you mean linux or *nix programs (possibly gnu tools)?

There is a big difference.

And do you mean Windows or IIS?

It depends on which vulnerability Im complaining about, either way its the same company making the same mistakes.

Im still seeing CODE RED!!!! its over a *YEAR* old now!

Only the most incompetent admin would be seeing that now.

No, only the most incompetant admin would be spreading it right now. Im seeing it in IDSes, not on my webservers. Apache, its varients, Zeus,Lotus Domino, and netscape enterprise were not vulnerable.

In fact IIRC there was a patch for the exploit behind Code Red 6 months before it even hit the world.

yes, and the amount of Code Red traffic generated by slack assed admins killled routers. That should tell you something about the Windows community as a whole.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

A command line isn't crappy just cause don't know how to use it.

No, it sucks because I have no need for it.

Never get into networking...

And yes, KDE does have a global clipboard.
You're obviously speaking of things that you don't have a clue about.

Oh really? So you can copy a word processed document with formatted fonts, sizes and colours, pictures, tables and charts straight into an email program (for example) and retain all the formatting? I'd like to see a screenshot of this so please oblige if you can.

Why would you want to do that? The only good email is plain text, why clutter it with crap?

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

A command line isn't crappy just cause don't know how to use it.

No, it sucks because I have no need for it.

And yes, KDE does have a global clipboard.
You're obviously speaking of things that you don't have a clue about.

Oh really? So you can copy a word processed document with formatted fonts, sizes and colours, pictures, tables and charts straight into an email program (for example) and retain all the formatting? I'd like to see a screenshot of this so please oblige if you can.

Don't know if KMail supports mails with all that stuff included right in the mail, gonna have to get back to you.
Or maybe someone else more familiar with KMail can fill in?

In the meantime, how about simply attaching the document in question if you wanna mail it to someone, so people who don't use Outlook can read it?
Sounds like a far more sensible solution considdering I doubt many mail clients will recognise word formatting.

 

[Sunner]

Doesn't seem like KDE/KMail can do that.
Bravo MS.

So then, can Outlook download newsfeeds from sites a'la Evolution?
Or download weather reports for that matter?

AFAIK, no.

Does that mean Outlook sucks?
No, it means Outlook lacks features available in other mailprograms, just as other mailprograms lack features of Outlook/Office.

Though I must say, to me newsfeeds seems like a far more useful feature than sending mail that looks like word documents, and that can't be read by any standards compliant mail program, but of course thats just IMO.

Oh and by the way, would you mind telling me how much you've used Linux/UNIX/BSD?
I assume you've used it quite alot since you considder yourself being in a position to speak out about the strengths and weaknesses of them with such certanity?

 

[Nothinman]

Why would you want to do that? The only good email is plain text, why clutter it with crap?

Exactly, and now with Mozilla 1.1 it has the option to view HTML mail as plain text.

 

[leezard]

macromedia studio MX

 

[BFG10K]

In the meantime, how about simply attaching the document in question if you wanna mail it to someone, so people who don't use Outlook can read it?

You're completely missing the point of my example. My example was to show how global copy and paste works on Windows, not to specifically point out copying from Word to Outlook. As long as programs adher to OLE standards you can copy and paste any kind of documents amongst any kind of programs without losing any formatting on them. And that includes non-MS programs.

I assume you've used it quite alot since you considder yourself being in a position to speak out about the strengths and weaknesses of them with such certanity?

I've used it enough to know I don't have a need for it, and that it also has significant disadvantages over Windows.

There is a floppy icon.

Welcome to the year 1995 (maybe even Windows 3xx had it too, I can't remember).

Whoa whoa whoa! Name another ISP you can get a connection to no matter which country you are in. Thats pretty dominant.

Just because you can get a connection it doesn't mean that there are actually people using the service. I'm willing to bet that outside of North America AOL is a minority ISP in terms of how many users it actually serves. Of course that's not even including the places where AOL doesn't even have a presence.

Now in contrast MS actually has the installed base of users that count toward its' market share. That is, if you go to any country in the world you'll find 95% of the computers there are running Windows (on average).

Never get into networking..

I fail to see why networking requires a command line. But hey, if you prefer to waste your time doing it the hard way, go right ahead...

Dont call that a firewall.

It is a firewall and your twisted zealotry will not make it otherwise.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

In the meantime, how about simply attaching the document in question if you wanna mail it to someone, so people who don't use Outlook can read it?

You're completely missing the point of my example. My example was to show how global copy and paste works on Windows, not to specifically point out copying from Word to Outlook. As long as programs adher to OLE standards you can copy and paste any kind of documents amongst any kind of programs without losing any formatting on them. And that includes non-MS programs.

More crap "features".

I assume you've used it quite alot since you considder yourself being in a position to speak out about the strengths and weaknesses of them with such certanity?

I've used it enough to know I don't have a need for it, and that it also has significant disadvantages over Windows.

Thats fair.

There is a floppy icon.

Welcome to the year 1995 (maybe even Windows 3xx had it too, I can't remember).

KDE has had one for a while, but I dont use KDE, so I dont know how long really.

Whoa whoa whoa! Name another ISP you can get a connection to no matter which country you are in. Thats pretty dominant.

Just because you can get a connection it doesn't mean that there are actually people using the service. I'm willing to bet that outside of North America AOL is a minority ISP in terms of how many users it actually serves. Of course that's not even including the places where AOL doesn't even have a presence.[/quote]

And there are areas that have no choice but AOL.

Now in contrast MS actually has the installed base of users that count toward its' market share. That is, if you go to any country in the world you'll find 95% of the computers there are running Windows (on average).

Never get into networking..

I fail to see why networking requires a command line. But hey, if you prefer to waste your time doing it the hard way, go right ahead...

netstat, ping, traceroute/tracert. I wasnt even going into setting up new ip addresses or aliases for remote servers, just the basics

Dont call that a firewall.

It is a firewall and your twisted zealotry will not make it otherwise.

Its a half asses attempt at a firewall. How can I block certain ip addresses or ips? How can I configure specific egress filtering?

 

[Mucman]

Egad! n0c and Nothinman have defended what I would say so I won't bother entering the fray... I just think it's cool that this is still a civilized conversation

As for auto-updates? Install FreeBSD and portupgrade. Make a crontask that runs `portupgrade -ar` and every single one of your programs will be updated everynight Heck, you can make a cron
task that will do that following :

cvsup the source and ports
make and build world
compile and install a new kernel
and upgrade your entire ports tree

That would be hardcore

 

[Sunner]

I fail to see why networking requires a command line. But hey, if you prefer to waste your time doing it the hard way, go right ahead...

You have just got to be shitting me?
Aside from the stuff n0c brought up, how about configuring routers for instance?
Hint: IOS doesn't come with a fancy GUI.

You're completely missing the point of my example. My example was to show how global copy and paste works on Windows, not to specifically point out copying from Word to Outlook. As long as programs adher to OLE standards you can copy and paste any kind of documents amongst any kind of programs without losing any formatting on them. And that includes non-MS programs.

Gee, sounds so useful, especially for my grandma.

But by all means, if that's useful to you, thats nice, me I prefer the many advantages Linux has over Windows since those are useful to me.
This is what you seem completely unable to understand, just cause you don't know much, if anything about Linux, and don't see the use in it, doesn't mean that applies to the whole world.
I assume you think UNIX on servers is a bad idea as well?
Not to mention SPARC/PA-RISC/POWER boxes are a waste compared to x86 servers?
I mean they can't play games, and the command line plays a vital role in using them, so they must suck, right?

 

[BFG10K]

You have just got to be shitting me? Aside from the stuff n0c brought up, how about configuring routers for instance?

Err, I use GUI programs or web interfaces to configure routers and firewalls (Nokia, Intel etc). If your hardware doesn't come with such tools then it's not my problem. Either buy something better or use Windows.

Besides, it's not like I never use the command line, I just prefer a GUI in most cases and I like having the choice in as many cases as possible.

Gee, sounds so useful, especially for my grandma.

Again the point wizzes right past your head. Here it is: Linux does not have a global copy and paste system that works across all programs like Windows does. Can you even do something simple like copying a filename from KDE's file viewer and paste it into an XTERM or into EMACS (genuine question as I haven't tried)?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

You have just got to be shitting me? Aside from the stuff n0c brought up, how about configuring routers for instance?

Err, I use GUI programs or web interfaces to configure routers and firewalls (Nokia, Intel etc). If your hardware doesn't come with such tools then it's not my problem. Either buy something better or use Windows.

The implications of running, say a webserver interface, greatly outweigh the implications of running a small sshd, in my opinion. To each his own. I have personally found guis to be very limitting in settings and whatnot.

Besides, it's not like I never use the command line, I just prefer a GUI in most cases and I like having the choice in as many cases as possible.

How about ping, nentstat, or traceroute?

Gee, sounds so useful, especially for my grandma.

Again the point wizzes right past your head. Here it is: Linux does not have a global copy and paste system that works across all programs like Windows does. Can you even do something simple like copying a filename from KDE's file viewer and paste it into an XTERM or into EMACS (genuine question as I haven't tried)?

I dont know if that works, since I dont need the bloat of a large unnecessary gui, but Im pretty sure the KDE group and the Gnome group were trying to work together on simple things like this. I know if I want to copy something out of Opera, and paste it into an xterm, all I have to do is highlight the text, and middle cllick in the xterm. Obviously, since an xterm doesnt handle much formatting (that I know of) it will lose any "pretty stuff" the author did to the text. The same goes for pasting it into vi, I dont use emacs or vim, so I dont know how they handle such things.

 

[Sunner]

Running webgui's to configure stuff such as servers, routers, or whatever, is one of the stupidest idea's ever IMO.

Of course, my work mostly doesn't involve configuring routers, just the occasional dive into IOS, but I've never met a single network professional who did any configuring with a GUI.
Of course for your DLink router protecting your boxes at home, it might be another matter.

And yes, you can copy text between any program you want, at least in KDE and XFce, was some time since I used Window Maker or Blackbox last, so I dont know about those.

Just out of curiosity, what do you do for a living BFG?

 

[Nothinman]

Err, I use GUI programs or web interfaces to configure routers and firewalls (Nokia, Intel etc)

Those web interfaces are what usually cause problems, like Cisco had problems with them and DoS attack with their routers and switches, and are the first thing disabled by competent network admins.

The way our network team setups up routers and switchs is to connect via the console port with a terminal emulator then paste in a base config to the command line, change anything specific to that box (usually just the IP) and you're done, takes under a minute. Routers need a little more work tweaking ACLs.

Can you even do something simple like copying a filename from KDE's file viewer and paste it into an XTERM or into EMACS (genuine question as I haven't tried)?

Select the filename and then middle-click in the xterm or emacs.

 

[BFG10K]

To each his own. I have personally found guis to be very limitting in settings and whatnot.

The way our network team setups up routers and switchs is to connect via the console port with a terminal emulator then paste in a base config to the command line, change anything specific to that box (usually just the IP) and you're done, takes under a minute. Routers need a little more work tweaking ACLs.

Yes I've seen configurations done like that a few times before although I personally have never done my configurations this way.

I'd probably agree that a hardcore network pro would find a command line more useful but for someone like me who rarely touches the configurations except for occasional filter tweaks and whatnot a nice GUI interface makes my job a piece of cake. Plus I can monitor the status of the hardware by just doing something as simple as checking the lights that the GUI is drawing for me and looking at the stream of information coming through the logfiles.

Select the filename and then middle-click in the xterm or emacs.

OK.

Just out of curiosity, what do you do for a living BFG?

I'm a network administrator/computer support person for a medium sized company. This entails the usual tasks of managing a Windows 2000/exchange server although I do get outside help sometimes as I'm not totally hardcore in this area. Also my job tasks often extend to "jack-of-trades" tasks such as Access programming, printers, the phone system, helping with the accounting department etc.

 

[BurnItDwn]

mostly just games.

 

[MainFramed]

OPERA BROWSER

 

[Moonbender]

Hmn ... kidding? Opera is available for Linux. In fact, it even runs on the Zaurus.

 

[MainFramed]

yea i was kidding hehe o)