What is Oblivion like...?

[kobymu]

I'm not a big fan of D&D, I actually dislike it and I prefer Dark Conspiracy and Ars Megica, for the record.

Fable LC fits as an RPG, so does the Gothic Series - which are very close to Oblivion except in a few key points [as in 'leveling up']
...
STALKER is RPG at "heart" .. you DO level up and gain "experience" in whatever you SPECIALIZE in ... but the game does not make you aware of it with a "level up NOW!" screen.

You don?t have levels in many RPGs.

I looking for gaming experience, not technical terms.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: kobymu
I'm not a big fan of D&D, I actually dislike it and I prefer Dark Conspiracy and Ars Megica, for the record.

Fable LC fits as an RPG, so does the Gothic Series - which are very close to Oblivion except in a few key points [as in 'leveling up']
...
STALKER is RPG at "heart" .. you DO level up and gain "experience" in whatever you SPECIALIZE in ... but the game does not make you aware of it with a "level up NOW!" screen.

You don?t have levels in many RPGs.

I looking for gaming experience, not technical terms.

i just wanted to point out the many types of "RPG"

Oblivion is definitely ... by definition - a Role Playing Game ... you choose your Character and Specialize in your skills till it fulfills the role you chose for it

of course we are not even talking about CRPGs ... or computer role playing games

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

Video games incorporating settings and game mechanics found in roleplaying games are referred to as computer role-playing games, or CRPGs. Due to the popularity of CRPGs, the terms "role-playing game" and "RPG" have both to some degree been co-opted by the video gaming industry; as a result, traditional non-digital pastimes of this sort are increasingly being referred to as "pen and paper" or "tabletop" role-playing games, though neither pen and paper nor a table are strictly necessary.

so none of these games played on our computers are actually "RPGs" ... we are looking for the "Console RPG"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_role-playing_game

For historical, cultural, and hardware related reasons, console role-playing games have evolved a very different set of features that mark them distinct from other electronic RPGs. Because the vast majority of CRPGs originate in Eastern Asia, particularly Japan, CRPGs are often referred to as Japanese role-playing game (JRPG[2]), although there are non-Japanese console role-playing games in existence.

A computer role-playing game (also referred to as CRPG) may be marked as a "console-style RPG" by the gaming community if its gameplay and design philosophy is similar to that of most console role-playing games. Examples of such games that actively pursued an Eastern style of RPGs include Anachronox and Septerra Core.

The categorization between console and computer role-playing games is sometimes ambiguous for cross-platform games such as the Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic series, or for games that are ported from one format to another, such as Eye of the Beholder or Final Fantasy VII....

In CRPGs, overall character power is often represented by a number called a "level". Typically, characters raise their level by gaining experience through combat or by performing other actions. When the experience reaches a certain number they gain a level, enabling them to attain greater attributes, abilities, and spells. In the process of gaining these levels characters may gain more useful types of equipment, such as weapons and armor....

A CRPG often provides several different layers of travel in the form of localized maps in buildings, towns, or dungeons. At the widest levels, an overlying world map is often used for traveling between countries, continents, or planets. At the beginning of the game, obstacles on the world map such as mountains, rivers, and deserts may prohibit the player from visiting an area until the player has obtained appropriate skills or vehicles.

A CRPG plot is crafted in an intricate fashion into a highly dramatic, strictly-directed and linear construct, relying on the viewer to experience most of its twists and turns at predetermined specific times and certain ways. In this sense, a CRPG's execution is quite akin to that of a movie or a novel, using scripted sequences.

Few games in the genre offer branching plots, though some titles such as Final Fantasy VII and Tales of Symphonia do feature alternate storylines depending on the player's conversational choices to characters in his party. Other games such as Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross were notable for offering a multitude of decidedly different endings.

Console RPG plots tend to resemble anime or manga adventures, often colorful and bright with light-hearted, self-identifiable characters. The storyline in these games usually involves an epic battle between the forces of good and evil, with the player's characters fighting on the good side to avert an apocalypse.

most RPG gameplay is built around quest structures. The player is typically required to go through a series of challenges shared from pen-and-paper RPGs, such as clearing a dungeon of monsters, defeating an evil boss, or rescuing a princess. To do these tasks, one might be required to talk to an NPC to receive the quest. Other missions may include engaging in dialogue, item fetch quests, or locational puzzles, such as opening a locked door by means of a key or hidden lever.

by definition, Oblivion is RPG

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i just wanted to point out the many types of "RPG"

Oblivion is definitely ... by definition - a Role Playing Game ... you choose your Character and Specialize in your skills till it fulfills the role you chose for it

Its RPG by definition? ok, fine.

From a gameplay experience, was it an RPG? Did you roleplay your character? What kind of character?

you choose your Character and Specialize in your skills till it fulfills the role you chose for it

What is "it" and what is the role of "it"?

 

[apoppin]

your NPC: male or female or it

read the definition from the Wiki ... on every single point, Oblivion is RPG

what makes you say Oblivion is not RPG?
-i think you hold the minority view


i met MANY posters on the TES forums that actually "Role Played" their character in their daily lives whenever possible

 

[kobymu]

Gaming experience... I don?t know how to explain this, game play, the thing you do in order to play the game.

I'm sure you can find some kind of definition of Chess that state about it that it is a sport game. When I say sport do think chess or do think basketball/football/baseball?

RPG ? role playing game ? when I say role playing game do you think about smacking thing with a sword Diablo/oblivion style or do you think role playing a character?

How can I roleplay in oblivion?

 

[apoppin]

first, give your definition of what a Role Playing Game is

Chess is a 'mental sport' and organized in leagues and clubs for competition just like other 'sports'
... i played chess and made 'expert' ranking

i also played Pen & Paper D&D [beta rules] back in the earliest of the 70s ...
--when fundamentalist churches were calling it 'demonic'

 

[kobymu]

Baby steps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG

RPG is an abbreviation with several different meanings:

* ->Role<--playing game, in which players assume the ->>[/b]roles[/b]<<- of characters and collaboratively create narratives

* Computer >role<-playing game (sometimes CRPG), a computer game with the setting and game mechanics of a >role<-playing game

A game in which players assume the ->>roles<<- of characters.

Is that clear enough? (for now?)

 

[apoppin]

not really ... where are you going with this?

 

[s44]

Is Championship Manager a Role Playing Game?

Silly.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i also played Pen & Paper D&D [beta rules] back in the earliest of the 70s ...
--when fundamentalist churches were calling it 'demonic'

I didnt start until '90, after I had already been playing Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy for a while.
It took me some time to unlearn what I had traditionally thought was a role-playing game.

(And, my mom told me I was going to hell.)

 

[Schadenfroh]

**comment removed, I should not stray off topic any further, that and it could have possibly been a nasty... escalation **

 

[ielmox]

Let me point out that I am not keen on the NWN and Oblivion comparison, however it was requested since both games (VERY broadly mind you) fall into the RPG genre. I stand by everything I said on Oblivion (with the possible exception of alchemy, which perhaps I may not have fully grasped). I played the game for a few weeks before giving up, certainly more than the two-hour demo experience some posters have unkindly implied.

As I said in my previous post, these are different games. Oblivion is a console RPG with many elements of FPS. This is absolutely not similar to RPGs on PCs. Console RPGs tend to be crippled compared with PC RPGs, featuring reduced interactivity, fewer options, larger and less informative information panels, and several other handicaps. This is done by necessity, given the use of gamepads and the legacy of low-res televisions associated with consoles.

The NWN games are isometric PC RPGs. They are far more sophisticated and interactive by definition. They are made to be played comfortably at resolutions that were largely unavailable on TVs until very recently, and have evolved accordingly. They tend to contain far more in the way of content and variability than console RPGs.

It is true the story in Oblivion is not bad. I didn't say it was. I said the game was soporific, and it is - there is never any urgency at all, and if you want to follow the storyline (instead of open-ended play) you have to make an effort to look for it and stick with it, which is not always easy when you reach a new area, get sidetracked, are attacked by a wandering mob, go gathering, etc. As another poster put it, you have to dig. This was not always a pleasant experience.

So if you're a hardcore RPG'er I would guess you'd prefer something like the NWN type of games. Additionally, the NWN mechanics of gameplay have a much richer tradition behind them than you would find in Oblivion, which obviously adds to the game experience.

But if you enjoy console RPGs with elements of FPS, and you don't mind a repetitive and largely monotone experience (perhaps preferring to do your own thing in the game world) then clearly you would prefer Oblivion. However I would suggest something like Arx Fatalis over Oblivion - they have similar flaws, and Arx is probably a buggier game (as well as being a lot older), but IMO it is more innovative.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: apoppin
not really ...

What are you saying here, that an RPG don't have to include Role play gaming elements in order to be called RPG?

where are you going with this?

I want games that sell themselves as RPG to have Role play elements in them, is that too much to ask?

Because if it is I'm willing to settle, as long as game review sites knows how to distinguish between Role play elements and game mechanics & game feature, i'll be happy, i.e. if a game is reworded by "the best RPG 200x" is it fair to anticipate to find in that game Role play[/u] elements? Is that too, too much to ask?

If a game is an RPG, it should have role play, why is this too much to ask?

 

[apoppin]

why ?

the problem lies with your ultra-narrow definition of "Role-playing" in RPG

i can't explain it to you any further but the gaming industry has already decided against you
-your appeal is denied

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: kobymu
What are you saying here, that an RPG don't have to include Role play gaming elements in order to be called RPG?

Originally posted by: apoppin
why ?

the problem lies with your ultra-narrow definition of "Role-playing" in RPG

i can't explain it to you any further but the gaming industry has already decided against you
-your appeal is denied

Is that a yes?

 

[kobymu]

why ?

If its called R.P.G., it should be a role playing game.

Originally posted by: apoppin
the problem lies with your ultra-narrow definition of "Role-playing" in RPG

How about we get the BASIC definition right first, and then move to the longer precise definition.

Basically, does a RPG , by its most basic definition , need to offer role-play?

 

[Whitecloak]

apoppin is a troll





At least he's not banned for 2 weeks.
Way to enter a topic and try to start a flame fest. You have had too many warnings/chances in the past.
AnandTech Moderator

 

[Kromis]

Originally posted by: Whitecloak
apoppin is a troll

An elite member a troll? I think not!

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: kobymu

why ?

If its called R.P.G., it should be a role playing game.

Originally posted by: apoppin
the problem lies with your ultra-narrow definition of "Role-playing" in RPG

How about we get the BASIC definition right first, and then move to the longer precise definition.

Basically, does a RPG , by its most basic definition , need to offer role-play?

you are stuck on semantics

your ultra narrow "Role play" does not meet the gaming industry's definition of RPG

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Whitecloak
apoppin is a troll

I disagree with apoppin on many issues regarding roleplaying as well (see the "Fable" thread:laugh, but he is certainly no troll and is a good fellow.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: apoppin


you are stuck on semantics

your ultra narrow "Role play" does not meet the gaming industry's definition of RPG

The game industry standard definition of RPG these days is a 'kill them all' game with stats that get better as the game progresses. As I've said before, its been dumbed down to the point of complete uselessness. And whenever a developer attempts to release a game that actually does offer something in the realm of role play, they get jumped on for various nit picky issues. Even when they support the game with patches and expansions, they still get flamed by people in the community for not being Jesus return to Earth.

Edit - Incidentally, this thread has moved from what the OP originally wanted. Seeing as NWN2 can be picked up for dirt cheap today, and with all the mods available and popping up every day, its a win-win situation.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: apoppin
you are stuck on semantics

I don't think so.

your ultra narrow "Role play" does not meet the gaming industry's definition of RPG

If by "ultra narrow" you mean the BASIC MEANING OF THE WORDS then yes, i have an "ultra narrow" definition, booo my.

RPG - role playing game. It doesn't get any simpler then that.

If the definition of RPG doesn't coincides or overlap with the BASIC MEANING OF THE WORDS the acronym is made off, why use it in the first place, it is just misleading.

The wiki entry for RPG doesn't define what RPG is, it just gives you a list of components that a lot of games, that are considered RPG, contain.

You do realize that by sticking to your guns on the argument that oblivion is an RPG, you are basically saying that in order for a game to be considered an RPG it doesn't need to by an RPG, in order for a game to be considered a Role Playing Game it doesn't need to by a Role Playing Game.

Doesn't that strike you as odd?

 

[apoppin]

You do realize that by sticking to your guns on the argument that oblivion is an RPG, you are basically saying that in order for a game to be considered an RPG it doesn't need to by an RPG, in order for a game to be considered a Role Playing Game it doesn't need to by a Role Playing Game.

Doesn't that strike you as odd?

not at all ... many words have strayed from their original meanings ... the Gaming Industry has a definition of "RPG" that does not strike me as odd as it applies to a particular kind of PC gaming that includes Japanese "RPGS", "CRPGS", and our 'western variations' of RPG that include "your strict games" and the less strict ones.

Oblivion by common definition IS a Role Playing Game and when you go to a store to buy one, it is in the "RPG section" - along with Fable and DM M&M
--you can feel free to argue semantics with the gaming industry

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: apoppin
--you can feel free to argue semantics with the gaming industry

hmmm..

So the fact that 9 out of every 10 RPG fans here don't agree with the "gaming industry" doesn't say anything?

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: apoppin

you are stuck on semantics

your ultra narrow "Role play" does not meet the gaming industry's definition of RPG

You know, before computers became mainstream, there was these things called board games, though the young might be spell it and consider it bored games.

There is also the tabletop games, that included RPGs and Napoleonics, the latter expanded into a whole array of tabletop war games using figurines you moved by hand. Even RPGs made use of manually moved figures. And guess what! They included these things called player's handbooks and game master guides, usually made of paper and it contained all the rules and guidelines for playing. And you won't believe this! You had had to keep record using a pencil and paper!

Those were some freaking fun assed times. People actually got together, filled a bowl with chips, drank beer, made it a total social event. I really do miss those days, but it's hard to go back when every one starts getting married and making babies.

In short, don't confuse the computer game industry with the game industry as a whole. Computer games are the subset, not the superset.