What is Pi?

Cawchy87

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2004
5,104
2
81
I have asked my math teachers this question in the past and they never understood my question. Is there a simple equation that gives us pi? Why is pi so important to us mathmaticaly? Why is it more important than another non-repeating decimal, say Square root 5?
 

BrAcKeTmAn

Junior Member
Jul 31, 2004
5
0
0
PI = 3.141

it is a multiplication used to find the circumfrence of a circle by timesing the diameter of the circle by PI.

for example if there is a big circle feild that mesures 100 metres accross to you would times it by PI (3.141) and it would tell you that it is 341 metres around the boundry.
 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
1,448
0
0
Pi actually goes on for as many decimal places as you care to go. It is the number that expresses the relationship between the length of a radius and the circumfrence of a circle. Reportedly the ancient Egyptians settled on the square root of 10, 3.16, as being close enough for government work. I have no idea if this is actually true. I do know that pi is calculated by a means other than measuring the length of the radius and the circumference of a circle. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will elaborate.
 

zetter

Senior member
May 6, 2000
328
0
0
There are many formulae you can use to calculate pi. Some of them are listed on this site.

I've always used Leibnitz's Formula, PI/4 = 1/1 - 1/3 + 1/5 - 1/7 + ...
 

Cawchy87

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2004
5,104
2
81
Nope, just looking for the history behind PI and how it came to be. The way it is taught in schools it is just a random never ending number that solves many equations and we have no idea where it came from or why it is used. (I am in high school)
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
Well, no it is not a random number, I did actually come from somewhere. PI, as I remember correctly, was origionally used to calculate the parimeter around a wheel. The diameter is easy to get, but when measuring around a circle they found that the distance was always equal to the diameter times the constant known as PI. However, because of the nature of perfect circles (no straight lines) the constant PI would have a non repeating infinit decimal.

PI is a wonderful tool, But, IMO, Not quite as wonderful as the constant e..... However it does beat out the constant i (im not an electrical engineer)
 

Ryoga

Senior member
Jun 6, 2004
449
0
0
Pi is the ratio between the circumference and the diameter of a circle. As it turns out, this value is constant.

Pi = c / d
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Originally posted by: jhu
what if we lived in a universe where pi was different number?

We'd have pi equaling 100.3423, and we'd be asking "what if we lived in a universe where pi was a different number?"

Laws of physics and geometry would have to be radically different.
 

Cawchy87

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2004
5,104
2
81
Originally posted by: Ryoga
Pi is the ratio between the circumference and the diameter of a circle. As it turns out, this value is constant.

Pi = c / d


Thank you! That answers my question exactly!
 

NichowA

Member
Jul 24, 2004
30
0
0
More interesting to me than asking what if pi were a different number is why is pi what it already is? Such an impossible number to represent such a simple relationship.

People who think about stuff like this should check out the movie enttitled Pi, it is really quite interesting (don't expect it to be ultra-heavy on mathematics though)
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
, Ive got a good one, After browsing the internet for a couple of minuets.

Pi is

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Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
Originally posted by: Cogman
, Ive got a good one, After browsing the internet for a couple of minuets.

Pi is

3.14159265358979323...

I was going to copy and paste the 32 million digits that my computer calculated through Super PI, but you more or less beat me to that
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
Tiamat, yah, I did calculate pi with one of those programs, but when I found the text file with 125mil digits of pi, I decided that would be easier. (p,s, that is not 1 mil digits, anyways I dont think it is, I did not do the whole file. Too big for me.
 

Vee

Senior member
Jun 18, 2004
689
0
0
Originally posted by: NichowA
More interesting to me than asking what if pi were a different number is why is pi what it already is? Such an impossible number to represent such a simple relationship.
?

It's not an "impossible" number in any way. It's 'real' number.
It is not a 'rational' number, though. Rational numbers are numbers which can be represented by a relation P/Q, where P and Q are whole signed numbers, integers.
'Rational' numbers, of course, include all finite decimal numbers, since Q can be 10, 100, 1000...
'Rational' numbers, again of course, also include nonfinite decimal sequences, like 1/3 = 0.33333....
'Real' numbers include all 'rational' numbers, but in fact, most 'real' numbers are not 'rational'!
If N is the amount of real numbers and K is the amount of rational numbers, then the relation N/K is infinite!
So you see, - pi is not a rare case at all. On the contrary, numbers like pi, e, 2^½ are the vast majority.

We use the symbols of pi, e, etc, in order to be able to represent some important non rational real numbers *exactly*. If we used approximations for these numbers, in mathematic expressions and equations, errors would creep in.
 

Topher

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
1,264
0
0
I'll never forget the 3rd Rock episode where John Lithgow stands up and cheers at a football game:

"Pi, Pi, that's our sign
3-point-1-4-1-5-9"
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Also, to answer your question "why is it so important mathematically", part of the answer to that is that Pi creeps into problems, sometimes where you would never expect it. Also, if you want an exact answer and are dealing with trig or circles, or problems dealing with cycles, Pi is frequently part of the answer as well.
 

Mday

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
18,647
1
81
pi is considered an irrational number. That is, it is not a rational number. A rational number by definition is any number that can be represented as a fraction with WHOLE numbers in the numerator and denominator (none zero for the den.).

Furthermore, it is important that pi and e are "transcendental numbers". That is, they are not algebraic. There is no regular polynomial which will yield pi and e as a root. The only way you can get pi and e, in terms not defined by C/d, is calculus. And, yes, irrational numbers CAN be algebraic, such as the square root of 2, or even 2i.
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,650
203
106
I wonder...
How many other "important" transcendental numbers are out there that we havent discovered?

I've always thought were probably only 1 transcendental number away from having some real scientific breakthrough, like warp fields or time travel.
 
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