What is so good about manufacturing?

[mammador]

Why is manufacturing seen as "inherently good"?

OK, let's get down to microeconomic theory. Manufacturing or secondary sector industry is essentially making and assembling things. So cars, aeroplanes, smartphones, desktops/laptops, well anything that can be assembled or made from scratch is manufacturing.

So what makes that inherently special or good? Is there a logical reason, or just romanticism? People often say that service jobs are shitty. What defines a shitty job, provided it adds social value and no social costs? So medicine, teaching, insurance sales, don't add value to society?

 

[SlickSnake]

I believe this is more discussion club material than P&N LOL!

But they will not hesitate to call you out on your trolling BS and ban you from there if you don't keep it real there, homey LOL!

 

[SlickSnake]

Why are jobs seen as inherently good when everyone can either work for Uncle Sam or just go on some form of welfare? Because that is where we are headed as a country, hook, line and sinker.

And I see psychiatry as a real booming profession in the years to come, if these forums are any indication.

 

[Engineer]

Because everyone can't be teachers, doctors, etc. You cherry picked top level service jobs (that are needed of course) to try to downplay manufacturing. Manufacturing provides good paying jobs for middle and lower class earning folks as well as benefits for most (although that's even starting to fall).

The idea that we can import out way to utopia and let everyone in the country be salesmen (service jobs) isn't working out too well, I would say.

Works OK as long as you can borrow your way to buying the stuff but then what (as is happening now)? Also works when you can keep a bubble going of some sort to make up for the loss of wages and outflows of money for all of the imports.

If we keep ripping out the better paying 'making stuff' jobs from the middle and lower class people and replacing them with lower wage service jobs (Walmart, McDonalds, etc), we'll continue to see the foundation decay to the point that the building (USA) will collapse. Hope you have a corporate jet or parachute....

What you are suggesting is that the masses essentially become salesmen (they all can't be teachers, doctors, lawyers, etc) and sell imported products between each other. That will work out really well....yep....really well.

 

[mammador]

lol. OK, so all manufacturing jobs are well paid? Maybe production managers are, but those on the shop floor receive average wages at best.

And yes, flipping burgers at BK or loading the pressure fryer at KFC may seem like shitty jobs, but they still provide some value. Checking that the peanut butter making machine at Kraft is operational is a "shitty" job too, but it still provides value.

 

[Doppel]

Because at the end of the day everything you use in daily life is manufactured. Surely a healthy economy needs to be able to make much of what it actually uses.

 

[Engineer]

lol. OK, so all manufacturing jobs are well paid? Maybe production managers are, but those on the shop floor receive average wages at best.

And yes, flipping burgers at BK or loading the pressure fryer at KFC may seem like shitty jobs, but they still provide some value. Checking that the peanut butter making machine at Kraft is operational is a "shitty" job too, but it still provides value.

The pay and benefits at manufacturing is far above the average McDonalds job (I never said that they don't provide some value but far less than what making stuff does). Sure, there is some lower wage manufacturing but the higher end (automotive, etc) has better pay and benefits, not to mention some of the overtime involved. There is also a side to manufacturing that allows people to learn. You would be surprised at the amount of knowledge and skill that people learn while in a manufacturing environment. The 35 toolmakers at my last job all started and were trained in the manufacturing plant that they had started in (about 40 years ago).

Manufacturing also supports a huge number of highly skilled tradesmen and engineers that build equipment and support those manufacturing plants. Not to mention sales engineers that sell industrial components to those plants to keep them going or to upgrade them. Who built that peanut butter making machine that provides the shitty job at Kraft?

 

[Engineer]

Because at the end of the day everything you use in daily life is manufactured. Surely a healthy economy needs to be able to make much of what it actually uses.

This!

I once read that there were 7 steps of life before the fall of every empire (in history). Step #6 was to rely on the slave labor of conquered lands for your goods and services. We are at 'Defcon 6'.

 

[z1ggy]

I want to know what drugs you take, so I never ever ever take them.

 

[Mursilis]

Because at the end of the day everything you use in daily life is manufactured. Surely a healthy economy needs to be able to make much of what it actually uses.

While this is true, it's not just imports that have gutted manufacturing jobs, it's also been automation. Making 20,000 cars, for example, takes a HECK of a lot fewer workers today than it did 50 years ago. That fact isn't changing, and automation is only increasing.

 

[Linux23]

Dare I ask what step 7 is?

*gulps

 

[Engineer]

Dare I ask what step 7 is?

*gulps

IIRC, it was the final collapse. I can't find the document that I read that in. Was really interesting though.

 

[fskimospy]

Manufacturing capability is not inherently good unless you're in a war. Manufacturing tends to be dirty, dangerous work. It's often bad for the health of the population and the environment.

As other people said however, you need to have jobs available at all levels of the job market. Manufacturing jobs generally pay better than other jobs that require low-mid level skills, so they are an important aspect of economic mobility.

 

[OverVolt]

Because it creates physical wealth. If there is less 'stuff' around in general no matter what kind of finance/money games the banks play, there is just going to be less stuff.

If you make cars in Detroit guess who is up to their neck in cheap cars thanks to supply and demand? Oh thats right, Detroit. Well used to anyway.

 

[OverVolt]

Manufacturing capability is not inherently good unless you're in a war. Manufacturing tends to be dirty, dangerous work. It's often bad for the health of the population and the environment.

As other people said however, you need to have jobs available at all levels of the job market. Manufacturing jobs generally pay better than other jobs that require low-mid level skills, so they are an important aspect of economic mobility.

Haha, you are very uptight. What do you know about dirty, dangerous work? Who cares if its dirty how do you think your stuff gets made. Lol...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Manufacturing capability is not inherently good unless you're in a war. Manufacturing tends to be dirty, dangerous work. It's often bad for the health of the population and the environment.

As other people said however, you need to have jobs available at all levels of the job market. Manufacturing jobs generally pay better than other jobs that require low-mid level skills, so they are an important aspect of economic mobility.

They are inherently necessary for a healthy economy. Our "recovery" is largely based on replacing better paying traditional jobs with low paying service ones. The solution is to open up more positions by making the US more competitive in ways other than just lower wages, but that takes creativity not found when mediocrity of mind is the gold standard.

 

[Engineer]

Manufacturing tends to be dirty, dangerous work.

Dirty: Yes

Dangerous: Might be but definitely improving, especially over the 20 years that I've worked around it. Safety has been an increased focus and is implemented more and more. Also, safety has become cheaper (light curtains are 1/2 the price that they were just 15 years ago) which aids in the implementation of safer work environments.

 

[fskimospy]

They are inherently necessary for a healthy economy. Our "recovery" is largely based on replacing better paying traditional jobs with low paying service ones. The solution is to open up more positions by making the US more competitive in ways other than just lower wages, but that takes creativity not found when mediocrity of mind is the gold standard.

I'm not at all convinced that manufacturing is inherently necessary. What are you basing that on?

Replacing better paying jobs with worse paying ones is certainly a problem, but almost all of the highest paying jobs are also service or IP jobs. Why MUST manufacturing be a part of a healthy economy?

 

[OverVolt]

woooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[OverVolt]

I'm not at all convinced that manufacturing is inherently necessary. What are you basing that on?

Replacing better paying jobs with worse paying ones is certainly a problem, but almost all of the highest paying jobs are also service or IP jobs. Why MUST manufacturing be a part of a healthy economy?

Reading what you type is like nails on a chalkboard. Todays middle class were the industrial era's working class. How do you think they became middle class and raised your naive dumbass for starters. God... lol...Economic mobility like was mentioned. Which as of late is on a downtrend.

 

[fskimospy]

Dirty: Yes

Dangerous: Might be but definitely improving, especially over the 20 years that I've worked around it. Safety has been an increased focus and is implemented more and more. Also, safety has become cheaper (light curtains are 1/2 the price that they were just 15 years ago) which aids in the implementation of safer work environments.

That's good to hear! My only point is that a car manufacturing plant is basically certain to have more work related injuries in a year than an office building and manufacturing often uses chemicals, etc that pollute the environment more. It's just the cost of doing that sort of business.

 

[fskimospy]

Haha, you are very uptight. What do you know about dirty, dangerous work? Who cares if its dirty how do you think your stuff gets made. Lol...

What do you think a navy ship is other than a big, floating industrial environment?

 

[OverVolt]

That's good to hear! My only point is that a car manufacturing plant is basically certain to have more work related injuries in a year than an office building and manufacturing often uses chemicals, etc that pollute the environment more. It's just the cost of doing that sort of business.

Diabetes/heart disease/cancer risk from sitting desk jobs. Its really all the same thing. Life will get ya one way or another :awe:

 

[fskimospy]

Reading what you type is like nails on a chalkboard. Todays middle class were the industrial era's working class. How do you think they became middle class and raised your naive dumbass for starters. God... lol...Economic mobility like was mentioned. Which as of late is on a downtrend.

I was going to say it was clear you didn't read my earlier post, but somehow you found a way to make a dumb post about that one too.

Whether or not today's middle class became so with the help of manufacturing jobs does not in and of itself show that manufacturing jobs are both necessary and sufficient to do that today. This is basic, elementary level logic.

 

[OverVolt]

I was going to say it was clear you didn't read my earlier post, but somehow you found a way to make a dumb post about that one too.

Whether or not today's middle class became so with the help of manufacturing jobs does not in and of itself show that manufacturing jobs are both necessary and sufficient to do that today. This is basic, elementary level logic.

There really is no saving you from yourself. Good luck man you will need it.