What is the best processor, athon xp, p4?

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Barrei
What a stupid question.

Not stupid at all. Given some goals he wants to reach there is very much a "best" processor. There is no best processor for everyone, but for almost any situation there is a processor that would be the best choice.

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: CelticDemolition
hmmm....

well, i would say that a 1ghz p3 would indeed be significantly faster than a 0.53 ghz one! hehe. i would also say that an athlon xp would be significantly faster than the 1ghz p3. (you do mean athlon xp when you say athlon, right?) i would also say that i dont know anything about cyrix... sorry.

I'll tell ya everything ya need to know about Cyrix - they make really fancy doorstops!

 

[budgieboo]

LOL, I guess will stay clear of cyrix

 

[PHiuR]

here it is....

poor = AMD
rich man = INTEL


my XP1600+ runs very nicely at XP2100+ i KNOW i can push it more if i get a better fan on my hs (GC68) DONT DISS IT because it rox! currently idling at 38-40C

 

[budgieboo]

i have concentrated down my choices to 3 shuttle barebones units, they come with different motherboards the p3 costs $170, p4 $275 and the athlon xp $350. Based on those figures i think the p3 is the best value, but if i was to step up is it worth paying more for the atholon or get the p4?

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: budgieboo
i have concentrated down my choices to 3 shuttle barebones units, they come with different motherboards the p3 costs $170, p4 $275 and the athlon xp $350. Based on those figures i think the p3 is the best value, but if i was to step up is it worth paying more for the atholon or get the p4?

Which P4 is it? What do the barebones systems come with? Are there any differences between the systems other than motherboard and CPU?

 

[budgieboo]

They are just the box with motherboards in a small form factor size. They do not come with processors. The sv24 was their first model, and the onboard video is only 32mb the others is 62mb so that is an improvment the ss40g and ss50 also have 2 pci slots whereas the sv24 only has one. Those are the major differences. p3 $170, p4 $275,athlon xp $350 Keep in mind the p4 and athlon units are basically identical inside. So what would be the better value when adding the price of a cpu to any of these systems. Thanks

 

[CrazySaint]

I just took a look at those Shuttle systems, and there's a couple things you should be aware of:
A) Your future upgrade options are going to be really limited. Basically, if you want to add much more than what is built into the system when you buy it, you will have to buy a new case and motherboard to accomidate it.
B) The integrated graphics in the motherboards is REALLY crappy. It also shares your main system memory, instead of having its own dedicated RAM. You can forget playing any new games using the integrated graphics. In fact, you would probably have trouble playing any games released in the last 2 years. I'm not even sure the integrated graphics would beat your old 16MB card.
C) You're basically paying a LOT for the unique form factor of the cases. If the cube-shaped case isn't really important to you, you could get a good mid tower case and motherboard for a lot less than you would pay for the P4 or Athlon barebones system (you could an Antec PP660 case and an EPoX 4G4AI motherboard shipped from newegg for about $220, which is a really nice case and motherboard combo and is, in fact, what I've chosen for myself)

 

[grunjee]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Barrei
What a stupid question.

Not stupid at all. Given some goals he wants to reach there is very much a "best" processor. There is no best processor for everyone, but for almost any situation there is a processor that would be the best choice.

Ok, I guess what I meant to say was, "That sure sounded rude."

 

[SSXeon5]

Originally posted by: budgieboo
I am just curious as to what is the best processor and how they compare. Example: I know celeron isnt as good as a p3, but what is the difference, cache or something? Please clarify me for the p4, athlon xp, p3, celeron, duron, via cyrix.
thanks

Well budgieboo here is all the processor info you need to know:

Pentium 3 Processors:

-Pentium 3 "Coppermine" on the .18um 256k L2 Cache (18micron core) 650-1100Mhz and 100/133Mhz FSB
-Pentium 3 "Tualatin" on the New .13um 512k L2 Cache (13micron core) 1133-1400Mhz 133Mhz FSB

Celeron "2/3" Processors:

-Celeron "2, coppermine" on the .18um 128K L2 Cache (18micron core) 600-733Mhz w/ 66Mhz FSB and 800-1100Mhz w/ 100Mhz FSB
-Celeron "3, Tualatin" on the New .13um 256k L2 Cache (13micron core) 1000-1333Mhz w/133Mhz FSB


For the Pentium 3's I love them, I have a 1GHz in my rig, tho I would like a P4 for better frames in games ect. But overall they are great, have thermal protection, and are really cheap at this point. The big thing about the P3's to the celerons is the L2 cache and FSB speed decrease, but if you see by the later Celeron 3's they get to old P3 levels on speed/fsb/cache size. You had a question about how a 700Mhz celeron can beat a 1GHz VIA C3 .... its because they cant make good CPUS ... plan and simple. As for the P4s here is a brief overview of there core specs and why they are the best

Pentium 4 Processors:

-Pentium 4 "Willamette" on the .18um 256k L2 Cache (18micron core) 1.3Ghz-2Ghz w/ 400Mhz FSB
-Pentium 4 "Northwood A" on the .13um 512k L2 Cache (13micron core) 1.6GHz-2.4GHz w/400Mhz FSB
-Pentium 4 "Northwood B" on the .13um 512k L2 Cache (13micron core) 2.26-2.53Ghz w/533Mhz FSB

As for the Pentium 4's, when they were released people made fun of there performance and were not happy with its price. After the speed gap increased it beat the ThunderBird in plenty of apps/games ect. When the Northwood hit everything changed .... I knew it would be great but not this great .... people can take $150-160 1.6GHz Northwood P4s and overclock them to 2.4GHz stock cooling/voltage!! 800MHz Overclock out of the box! And now with the release of DDR chipsets and 533Mhz fsb for the Pentium 4 it is unstopable.

If you do anything .... even ripping DVDs ect ... I would highly recomend a P4 ... they are cheap/stable/fast and great upgrade path. If you ever want to upgrade I would get at this point:

-Pentium 4 2.26GHz (533Mhz fsb) $240
-Abit BG7 i845G DDR333 compliant $120
-512MB Samsung PC-2700 DDR333 $150

That will beat the fastest amd at this point stock. And later on upgrade to a P5 5GHz in the future with the same motherboard and ram. Just my $0.02

SSXeon

 

[bearauto]

Someone here claimed that you can overclock the Athlon XP "right out of the box." Is this inaccurate? Don't you have to unlock it first, before overclocking it? And doesn't unlocking it require precise modification of the chip itself?

 

[budgieboo]

Crazy saint: I really would like to have a small machine for college that doesnt take up much space. I am now a little worried about the video, i guess ill have to up that with an expansion card. I dont think that the other slim line cases offer any better video so if i ad a vid card i should be fine right

SSxeon5: Thanks for all the specs that is what i have really been after. That is some real important info so i know the cache for each chip.

 

[grunjee]

Originally posted by: bearauto
Someone here claimed that you can overclock the Athlon XP "right out of the box." Is this inaccurate? Don't you have to unlock it first, before overclocking it? And doesn't unlocking it require precise modification of the chip itself?

You can OC any chip out of the box assuming your mobo/bios supports FSB adjustment.

Unlocking an XP is not necessary... it is a precise operation (even though I've done 3 I still find it kinda difficult)... but it does make OC'ing interesting because you can then use really high FSB speeds. For example, assuming your ram can hit 200, you can do 200x9 (1.8 GHz) instead of 150x12 (1.8 GHz). A high bus will really yield some good results.

 

[malandro]

While I haven't tried the XP1600 overclocking, I do have 8 Athlon XP systems from 1700 to 2100+. But to be honest, although I am an avid AMD fan, I truly do not think they give the best bang for the buck as of today. Your best bet today would be to get an Intel P4 1.6A processor (bought mine when the were $138) that by merely going to almost default 145fsb using good memory you are running it at 2.3Ghz. I have yet to see a P4 1.6A that couldnt't hit 2.3Ghz at stock voltages using good memory. I have a Gigabyte 645DX chipset board running a 1.6A using default pad and HSF at 2.3Ghz and default voltages. Big deal you say .... well consider this .... I have installed a 39ohm (2 watt) resistor on the "yellow" center wire of the default HSF at this overclocked system. This reduces fan speed to around 2000rpm thus rendering it silent. I have had this system about a month now and it is absolutely ROCK STABLE, and a joy to use due to its complete silence and fantastic performance. Athlon's unfortunately are notoriously hot and need good cooling - thus are noisy. Also recentely I have tried the 2.26B processor and I got it up to 3060Mhz with corsair 2700 memory in about 5 minutes. Ran all benchmarks and it is totally stable. I haven't tried silencing it yet, since in this case I will wait for a Zalman flower cooler first. I guess for AMD to be a good choice you have to wait for Hammer. Still the XP1600 sounds like a steal at $70, and either way you cannot go wrong.

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: budgieboo
Crazy saint: I really would like to have a small machine for college that doesnt take up much space. I am now a little worried about the video, i guess ill have to up that with an expansion card. I dont think that the other slim line cases offer any better video so if i ad a vid card i should be fine right

It looks like your only option is the SS51G then, since it looks like it is the only barebone system they offer that has an AGP slot.

 

[Chronic321]

I just built a computer with an AMD Athlon XP 2200+, got it for only $209 two weeks ago so it was a good deal. Anyways, although my computer peforms great (11,641 3d marks with Geforce 4 TI 4400) I have to say if I had to choose again I would choose P4. A few days after completing my setup I was approached by a friend who wanted me to help him build a computer. I told him to go with the Pentium 4 2.26 GHZ (About same price if you through in the heatsink). The Pentium 4 is definitly a more modern CPU as we are seeing now in terms of how well the respective products scale mHZ wise. The P4 runs at cool temps while the Athlon even with the die shrink and lowered VCORE still runs relatively hot. My system is quiet and my CPU temps are around 50 degrees on my Asus A7v333, these are good temps but the system I built for my friend was dead silent and his CPU ran much cooler. Installation of the P4 is also easier although this alone doesn't warrant the purchase of a P4. I am just saying that the prices and performance are so similar now that P4 is the better option at speeds higher than 2.26 (533 mHZ FSB). This is not to mention to great support SIMD 2 instruction set is receiving while 3dnow! Professional is rather old technology. The Athlon was a great product, and it did what it set out to do, beat Intel's competing processor generation, which was the Pentium 3 and early Pentium 4's. However, at this point the Pentium 4 is too modern for the Athlon and AMD will have to wait for the Hammer to comepete. Once Intel hits 2.8 this September along with the price cut, Intel will definitly be the optimal choice. Barton will give Athlon a short extention however I think we can all agree that the Athlon architecture is reaching its limits and facing an opponent based on much more modern technology.

 

[SSXeon5]

Originally posted by: budgieboo

SSxeon5: Thanks for all the specs that is what i have really been after. That is some real important info so i know the cache for each chip.

Np So what have you decided to upgrade to?

SSXeon

 

[budgieboo]

I am leaning towards a P4 Northwood A, but i think i will wait till september because of the price cut rumor.

 

[Acanthus]

steves right dont forget intel says the Pentium 5 (just another die shrink and multithreading support) should fit on the same mobos as current socket 478 cpus

 

[Banana]

I want to congratulate all of you for not turning this into another CPU flame fest. Initially, I thought Budgiepoo was trolling . . .

 

[Intelman07]

Personaly i think intel is the way to go they are a big company and have great research labs!

 

[SSXeon5]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
steves right dont forget intel says the Pentium 5 (just another die shrink and multithreading support) should fit on the same mobos as current socket 478 cpus

Yup Not like the upcoming hammer needing a new socket, P4 owners can upgrade to a 4Ghz Prescott+ with ease. Go intel! There plan is working great! AMD couldnt even believe they are stomping them now. And thats why the barton is getting a New PR! Im repused by there high PR for a 256k boost in L2 cache. Good work AMD, damn there Marketing team must be the best in the business

SSXeon

 

[yodayoda]

Originally posted by: SSXeon5

Originally posted by: budgieboo
That will beat the fastest amd at this point stock. And later on upgrade to a P5 5GHz in the future with the same motherboard and ram. Just my $0.02

SSXeon

that is a good thought, but there is one small problem: there is no way in hell that will ever work. everytime *ntel comes out with a new generation chip, they have a new socket. let's do an analysis:

AMD = Socket A for Athlon B & C (Thunderbird), Duron (Spitfire), Athlon XP (Palomino), Duron (Morgan), Athlon XP (Thoroughbred). that is 6 different varieties of CPU, all working in the same socket.

Now let's look at *ntel:

Intel = Socket 370 for P3 (Coppermine), Celeron

Intel = Socket 370* for P3 (Tualatin) -- old Socket 370s would not work for the Tualatin

Intel = Socket 423 for first gen P4 (Willamette)

Intel = Socket 478 for P4 (Willamette & Northwood)

not to mention too, that for a time, Intel required you to purchase overpriced/underperforming RDRAM.

so in the same time that AMD has had one socket type, Intel has had four. the new AMD Barton, yup, you guessed it, confirmed to be Socket A. Intel's next gen chip? probably a new socket type. f*cking intel blows....

 

[yodayoda]

Originally posted by: SSXeon5

Originally posted by: Acanthus
steves right dont forget intel says the Pentium 5 (just another die shrink and multithreading support) should fit on the same mobos as current socket 478 cpus

Yup Not like the upcoming hammer needing a new socket, P4 owners can upgrade to a 4Ghz Prescott+ with ease. Go intel! There plan is working great! AMD couldnt even believe they are stomping them now. And thats why the barton is getting a New PR! Im repused by there high PR for a 256k boost in L2 cache. Good work AMD, damn there Marketing team must be the best in the business

SSXeon

wait a minute, you are dissing AMD for having to go to a new socket for the Hammer, a revolutionary change with 64 bit computing and on-die memory controller, while Intel went from P3 to P4 with FOUR different sockets! for the athlon, you will have FIVE generations (Thunderbird B & C, Palomino, Thoroughbred, and Barton) and TWO generations of Duron (Spitfire and Morgan) with ONE socket. maybe those bold words will cut through the fog in your head SSXeon.

 

[CrazySaint]

Fanboys...*sigh*

Why do people feel the need to pledge undying loyalty to a freakin' CPU brand? Sometimes Intel CPUs are better, sometimes AMD CPUs are better. Just buy the one that happens to be better when you're ready to upgrade.

/me starts digging out the fire extinguishers

[EDIT: I do, however, find it highly amusing that the flame war errupted immediately after 1YellowPeril applauded everybody for being mature and not turning this into a CPU flamewar!]