What is the best processor, athon xp, p4?

[gennro]

OK, if u want a good system just pick up a enlight case, a Nforce based mother board (with intergrated Geforce 2 mx, 5.1 sound, and lan) it won't be the best but still it will do everything u want it to, and just get 256 mb of pc 2100 and a amd athlon xp 1600

Asus A7N266-VM NVIDIA nFORCE 220 Chipset 266/200MHz FSB Motherboard Micro ATX- Retail $89.00
AMD Athlon 1600+/266 FSB XP PROCESSOR CPU - OEM $68
CPU FAN IGLOO 2310 (AMD/INTEL FAMILY) 1.47 & UP $6 (grease compound on heatsink)
ENLIGHT MICRO ATX CASE MODEL # 76020B1 - OEM $45
KINGSTON KVR266X64C25/256 256MB 32x64 PC2100 DDR RAM - RETAIL $67
Total = $275

good video, sound, built-in lan, and also in micro atx form, and the case also looks good and has a 300 watt psu

so there u have it

 

[budgieboo]

gennro
that is very tempting since it is about half what i am expecting to pay for the small form factor shuttle. The enlight looks like a good case, but I really do like the smaller case size though.

 

[CelticDemolition]

Originally posted by: budgieboo
gennro
that is very tempting since it is about half what i am expecting to pay for the small form factor shuttle. The enlight looks like a good case, but I really do like the smaller case size though.

micro atx not small enough for you? hmm... better get one of them new imacs... hehehe

 

[SSXeon5]

Originally posted by: yodayoda

wait a minute, you are dissing AMD for having to go to a new socket for the Hammer, a revolutionary change with 64 bit computing and on-die memory controller, while Intel went from P3 to P4 with FOUR different sockets! for the athlon, you will have FIVE generations (Thunderbird B & C, Palomino, Thoroughbred, and Barton) and TWO generations of Duron (Spitfire and Morgan) with ONE socket. maybe those bold words will cut through the fog in your head SSXeon.

How is that 800MHz hammer doing? "Revolutionary change" hahahahaahahah 64bit cpus shouldnt be in consumers hands for another 5-10years if that. And wow an on-die memory controller, they needed that to stay in with the P4. First off you no nothing of the Pentium 4 core then. Unlike the Athlon the P4 isnt a coppied version of the p3 Its architechture scales all the way to 10GHz on that core. Everyone mocked it, yet you all will be holding your toungs in a year when the P4/P5 dominate. P3 to P4 there were 3, unless you want to count slot 1, but athlons had that too so (athlon-to-hammer 3sockets) (pentium3-to-Pentium5 4 sockets) Man and the 2.66 and 2.8 are around the corner too, hello $240 2.53GHz

SSXeon

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: SSXeon5

Originally posted by: yodayoda

wait a minute, you are dissing AMD for having to go to a new socket for the Hammer, a revolutionary change with 64 bit computing and on-die memory controller, while Intel went from P3 to P4 with FOUR different sockets! for the athlon, you will have FIVE generations (Thunderbird B & C, Palomino, Thoroughbred, and Barton) and TWO generations of Duron (Spitfire and Morgan) with ONE socket. maybe those bold words will cut through the fog in your head SSXeon.

How is that 800MHz hammer doing? "Revolutionary change" hahahahaahahah 64bit cpus shouldnt be in consumers hands for another 5-10years if that. And wow an on-die memory controller, they needed that to stay in with the P4. First off you no nothing of the Pentium 4 core then. Unlike the Athlon the P4 isnt a coppied version of the p3 Its architechture scales all the way to 10GHz on that core. Everyone mocked it, yet you all will be holding your toungs in a year when the P4/P5 dominate. P3 to P4 there were 3, unless you want to count slot 1, but athlons had that too so (athlon-to-hammer 3sockets) (pentium3-to-Pentium5 4 sockets) Man and the 2.66 and 2.8 are around the corner too, hello $240 2.53GHz

SSXeon

Well, say goodbye to the "not another flame wars"..... SSXeon5 likes to start the flames. Well, SSXeon5, you are here, so am I. Have you accepted the challenge to pit your prescott/granite bay against the hammer of my choice??? Remember, no "bang for the buck", the winner will be the best performer (brute force).

Regarding the number of sockets, I'll take your own words "Athlon K7 classic .25 microns to hammer - 2 sockets only unless you want to count slot A... (socket 462 aka socket a & socket 754)"

 

[SSXeon5]

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: SSXeon5

Originally posted by: yodayoda

wait a minute, you are dissing AMD for having to go to a new socket for the Hammer, a revolutionary change with 64 bit computing and on-die memory controller, while Intel went from P3 to P4 with FOUR different sockets! for the athlon, you will have FIVE generations (Thunderbird B & C, Palomino, Thoroughbred, and Barton) and TWO generations of Duron (Spitfire and Morgan) with ONE socket. maybe those bold words will cut through the fog in your head SSXeon.

How is that 800MHz hammer doing? "Revolutionary change" hahahahaahahah 64bit cpus shouldnt be in consumers hands for another 5-10years if that. And wow an on-die memory controller, they needed that to stay in with the P4. First off you no nothing of the Pentium 4 core then. Unlike the Athlon the P4 isnt a coppied version of the p3 Its architechture scales all the way to 10GHz on that core. Everyone mocked it, yet you all will be holding your toungs in a year when the P4/P5 dominate. P3 to P4 there were 3, unless you want to count slot 1, but athlons had that too so (athlon-to-hammer 3sockets) (pentium3-to-Pentium5 4 sockets) Man and the 2.66 and 2.8 are around the corner too, hello $240 2.53GHz

SSXeon

Well, say goodbye to the "not another flame wars"..... SSXeon5 likes to start the flames. Well, SSXeon5, you are here, so am I. Have you accepted the challenge to pit your prescott/granite bay against the hammer of my choice??? Remember, no "bang for the buck", the winner will be the best performer (brute force).

Regarding the number of sockets, I'll take your own words "Athlon K7 classic .25 microns to hammer - 2 sockets only unless you want to count slot A... (socket 462 aka socket a & socket 754)"

Well hello there, I have accepted the challenge, yet I will start out with a 2.53/granite bay setup when the time comes. Muahahahaha you have chose an early death my boy .... muahahahaha

SSXeon

 

[Rainsford]

*Puts on flame suit, grabs flame thrower*

Normally I wouldn't participate in a thread like this, but SSXeon5 makes such a tempting target

I have no idea how good Hammer will be, I'm not making any predictions since I know jack just like you, the difference is I'll admit that. I prefer not to have a chance of looking like an idiot when Hammer comes out if it whoops Intel's chips. Not saying it will, but if I does you'll look stupid (or stupider). While I can (and will) buy whichever is better at the time and have no problems with doing so.

And since you are such a big fan of how much "different" the P4 is from the P3, can you name me even one thing that the P4 has going for it (over the P3) besides clockspeed? Sure it's different from the P3, but different is not always good. And sure clockspeed is good, but it's not everything. Remember that the current Intel CPU is a whole new design, and the current AMD CPU isn't. But the Athlon is making a pretty good showing of it even without a brand new design.

I don't pretend to know what's going to happen in the future, but if Hammer can keep the raw power of the Athlon XP and scale up like a P4, Intel will have some serious competition on their hands. In any case it should be interesting.

 

[gennro]

SSXeon5 Well first thing you are totally wrong about is the athlon is a copied p3, it isn't. The athlon has alot of diffrences, more bandwidth, better floating point, more pins, a multiplyer that can be unlocked.

All cpus are the same, and how can i say so, they all process information, or do they not?

The hammer will big competition to intel, reason why price and performance.
I hear that intel is coping off AMD, prescott is going to use x86-64, so it will be soon we will be running 64 bit applications.

And intel was the last company to finally use 32 bit cpus even, amiga, motorola, apple(which use motorola chips at the time) had 32 bit cpus 2 3 years before intel or AMD. Hell amiga and apple had Windows before microsoft did.

 

[grunjee]

Originally posted by: Chronic321
I just built a computer with an AMD Athlon XP 2200+, got it for only $209 two weeks ago so it was a good deal.

Uh, dude, I got a 2200+ 3 weeks ago for $70. [It's a 1600+ that does 2200+ with ease]. I can't believe you paid that much for that thing! Makes me sad

Man if you're gonna pay inflated prices for cpu's, go Intel *Puts on fire hat*

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
*Puts on flame suit, grabs flame thrower*

Normally I wouldn't participate in a thread like this, but SSXeon5 makes such a tempting target

I have no idea how good Hammer will be, I'm not making any predictions since I know jack just like you, the difference is I'll admit that. I prefer not to have a chance of looking like an idiot when Hammer comes out if it whoops Intel's chips. Not saying it will, but if I does you'll look stupid (or stupider). While I can (and will) buy whichever is better at the time and have no problems with doing so.

And since you are such a big fan of how much "different" the P4 is from the P3, can you name me even one thing that the P4 has going for it (over the P3) besides clockspeed? Sure it's different from the P3, but different is not always good. And sure clockspeed is good, but it's not everything. Remember that the current Intel CPU is a whole new design, and the current AMD CPU isn't. But the Athlon is making a pretty good showing of it even without a brand new design.

I don't pretend to know what's going to happen in the future, but if Hammer can keep the raw power of the Athlon XP and scale up like a P4, Intel will have some serious competition on their hands. In any case it should be interesting.

Overall, good post, but I just have one minor correction in that Prescott isn't going to support 64bit processings (unless you choose to believe Van (from Van's Hardware), who thinks he knows more about Intel's CPUs than 99% of Intel's employees, over both an Official Intel source (Intel) and a respected non-official source (WingzNut PEZ) )

 

[alexruiz]

Well hello there, I have accepted the challenge, yet I will start out with a 2.53/granite bay setup when the time comes. Muahahahaha you have chose an early death my boy .... muahahahaha

SSXeon

Perfect!!! Let me know the COST of your setup when you get it, because it will be pitted against a hammer configuration of the same price.... what configuration??? Wait and see, the only requisite that I have is to match the price of yours.... Winner??? Performance ONLY..... Loser will have to come here to the forums and accept the defeat in a public fashion

ps. Do you want anything special for your funeral.....?

 

[Wingznut]

Be careful with that bet, Alex... Rumor has it that AMD will be pricing the Hammer significantly higher than current T-bred prices.

 

[jbond04]

Originally posted by: Wingznut PEZ
Be careful with that bet, Alex... Rumor has it that AMD will be pricing the Hammer significantly higher than current T-bred prices.

LOL. Wouldn't it be kind of ironic if Intel ended up having a better price performance ratio than AMD?

Anyway, does overclocking count in this contest? If so, then it will be an interesting battle, since the latest stepping of P4's can overclock quite well. And also, it will be interesting to see how a .13um SOI Hammer can O/C as well. I'll say that I think that Intel will have a higher performing solution when the Hammer comes out, but I'm not sure that it will be the same setup that SSXeon5 will have.

For the sake of all (non-rabid) Intel fanboys out there, SSXeon5, buy yourself a 3.06GHz P4, okay? If you're gonna pit a fast rig against another fast rig, you might as well go big.

 

[SSXeon5]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
*Puts on flame suit, grabs flame thrower*

Normally I wouldn't participate in a thread like this, but SSXeon5 makes such a tempting target

I have no idea how good Hammer will be, I'm not making any predictions since I know jack just like you, the difference is I'll admit that. I prefer not to have a chance of looking like an idiot when Hammer comes out if it whoops Intel's chips. Not saying it will, but if I does you'll look stupid (or stupider). While I can (and will) buy whichever is better at the time and have no problems with doing so.

Deal if it does, (I know it wont ) I will say that I made a bad call

And since you are such a big fan of how much "different" the P4 is from the P3, can you name me even one thing that the P4 has going for it (over the P3) besides clockspeed? Sure it's different from the P3, but different is not always good. And sure clockspeed is good, but it's not everything. Remember that the current Intel CPU is a whole new design, and the current AMD CPU isn't. But the Athlon is making a pretty good showing of it even without a brand new design.

-20 stage pipeline
-Netburst Core (able to scale to 10Ghz)
-16k Trace cache
-512k L2 Cache
-533Mhz fsb
-SSE2 (a 1.6GHz P4 can beat a 1.8GHz Tbred with this in some apps)
-Rapid Execution Engine
-Hardware Prefetch


Just a few Dont give me that the P4 is a new design crap .... AMD and there fan boys moked them about that in the begining and now Intel is the leader by a huge gap. I mean when the 2.66Ghz and 2.8GHz come, I can get a 2.53Ghz for $240! Thats close to a retail 2200+ XP ahahaha Sad really

I don't pretend to know what's going to happen in the future, but if Hammer can keep the raw power of the Athlon XP and scale up like a P4, Intel will have some serious competition on their hands. In any case it should be interesting.

And I strongly dought amd can scale high with the hammer .... they are stuck at 800MHz at this point, and Prescott coming @ 3.2/4GHz 667Mhz fsb 1MB L2, hammer has STRONG competition.

SSXeon

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: Wingznut PEZ
Be careful with that bet, Alex... Rumor has it that AMD will be pricing the Hammer significantly higher than current T-bred prices.

Thanks for the heads-up guys. Well, if that happens I will need to carefully try to choose the best performer for that price. If I fail to get a good setup and lose, I'll be the first one to come back here and accept defeat.... Then I'll sell the hammer and get a prescott/granite bay setup...

I think the expensive hammer will be the sledgehammer, as Jerry Sanders said once that the clawhammer (0.13/0.09) + SOI would be cheaper than a Duron.... but we know that Jerry likes to talk.

The bet is mainly to cool down some rabid fans (I think I am a fanboy, but I guess I am not that bad). I don't think somebody will lose, b

By the way, Wingznutz PEZ, congratulations on the fantastic job with the .13 um Northwood.... I honestly never expected that a lousy performer like a willamette would become a hot rod only with some cache added and a finer process..... witness a marvel of engineering and science!

 

[CrawlingEye]

Hammer vs Prescott will be a fun little battle, however AMD lacks chipset support, the only real company making AMD chips is Via, SiS seems to have dropped them, in favor of Intel, just look at the releases.

SiS 645, what for AMD?
SiS 645DX, what for AMD?
SiS 648DX, what for AMD?
SiS 655, what for AMD?
SiS 660, what for AMD?

Then you can go into the fact that Via chipsets are inherently shoddy to begin with.

AMD needs to make their own chipsets, otherwise they had might as well close shop.

AMD won't have any respectable DC DDR platforms yet while the P4 will be on DDR-II, and no nHorse doesn't count, since it's all
integrated.

 

[yodayoda]

Originally posted by: SSXeon5
How is that 800MHz hammer doing? "Revolutionary change" hahahahaahahah 64bit cpus shouldnt be in consumers hands for another 5-10years if that. And wow an on-die memory controller, they needed that to stay in with the P4. First off you no nothing of the Pentium 4 core then. Unlike the Athlon the P4 isnt a coppied version of the p3 Its architechture scales all the way to 10GHz on that core. Everyone mocked it, yet you all will be holding your toungs in a year when the P4/P5 dominate. P3 to P4 there were 3, unless you want to count slot 1, but athlons had that too so (athlon-to-hammer 3sockets) (pentium3-to-Pentium5 4 sockets) Man and the 2.66 and 2.8 are around the corner too, hello $240 2.53GHz

SSXeon

wait a minute: you are dissing an engineering sample that is almost 6 months away from retail release because it clocks slow? wait until the chip comes to market before talking about its performance. no one really knows how well or poorly hammer will do, but it is revolutionary thought nonetheless. the P4 was revolutionary in its own way: by creating a 20-stage pipeline, it could clock higher but would have branching penalties and lower IPCs. they have shown that the design is robust enough to scale to high enough clockspeeds to overcome it shortfalls. yes, SSXeon, it is possible to have an intelligent exchange of information regarding CPUs without losing your cool.

P3/P4 had four: 370, 370* (for tualatin), 423, and 478 + slot 1. Athlon has had one: A + slot A. if you want to go even further, AMD has had two since Socket 7 (7 & A) while Intel has had six (Socket 7, 8, 370, 370*, 423, 478). also, i don't think $240/chip is anything to get excited about. the only good deal with intel is a 1.6A @ $150 clocked up over 2 GHz, and even then a $80 XP 1600+ clocked up to 2000+ or beyond is better.

edit: regarding chipsets--AMD does make its own chipsets. the 760MP and the new revision of the 760MPX are fine chipsets. you also have been able to completely overlook nVidia as a chipset maker. i am very impressed with the stability and performance of my Abit nForce. if the nForce2 is as good as it looks on paper, then the Hammer nForce should be a force to be reckoned with for a high performance/budget home 64bit system.

also sampling hammer chipsets are ATI and ALi. so between AMD, Via, SiS, nVidia, ATI, and ALi, i think you will have your choice of hammer chipset when the time comes =)

 

[SSXeon5]

Originally posted by: yodayoda

P3/P4 had four: 370, 370* (for tualatin), 423, and 478 + slot 1. Athlon has had one: A + slot A. if you want to go even further, AMD has had two since Socket 7 (7 & A) while Intel has had six (Socket 7, 8, 370, 370*, 423, 478). also, i don't think $240/chip is anything to get excited about. the only good deal with intel is a 1.6A @ $150 clocked up over 2 GHz, and even then a $80 XP 1600+ clocked up to 2000+ or beyond is better.

Hmm $240 for a 2.53GHz, STOCK can easly kill the 2200+ and are going to be priced the same in a little wile, is a GREAT DEAL. And go grab a cheap $114 i845G mobo and some DDR333 cas2 and im set

Originally posted by: CrawlingEye and no nHorse doesn't count, since it's all
integrated.

ahahhahahaahahah yeah Nforce was just like the TBred ... so anticipated, yet failed at everything people claimed

SSXeon

 

[yodayoda]

Originally posted by: SSXeon5[/i]

Originally posted by: yodayoda

P3/P4 had four: 370, 370* (for tualatin), 423, and 478 + slot 1. Athlon has had one: A + slot A. if you want to go even further, AMD has had two since Socket 7 (7 & A) while Intel has had six (Socket 7, 8, 370, 370*, 423, 478). also, i don't think $240/chip is anything to get excited about. the only good deal with intel is a 1.6A @ $150 clocked up over 2 GHz, and even then a $80 XP 1600+ clocked up to 2000+ or beyond is better.

Hmm $240 for a 2.53GHz, STOCK can easly kill the 2200+ and are going to be priced the same in a little wile, is a GREAT DEAL. And go grab a cheap $114 i845G mobo and some DDR333 cas2 and im set

SSXeon

you know this is an unfair matchup--you are selecting the flagship AMD processor NOW versus a hypothetically Intel price LATER? you are so far out of reality it is unbelievable. compare the two chips' prices NOW or the two chips' prices LATER, not mixing and matching to suit your needs. get it together so you don't sound like a moron.

 

[SSXeon5]

Originally posted by: yodayoda
you know this is an unfair matchup--you are selecting the flagship AMD processor NOW versus a hypothetically Intel price LATER? you are so far out of reality it is unbelievable. compare the two chips' prices NOW or the two chips' prices LATER, not mixing and matching to suit your needs. get it together so you don't sound like a moron.

Well even a $240 2.26GHz can beat a 2200+ nowso your, and stop trying to look smart and calling people names.

SSXeon

 

[yodayoda]

Well even a $240 2.26GHz can beat a 2200+ nowso your, and stop trying to look smart and calling people names.

SSXeon

ok, here's a deal: i'll stop trying to look smart if you stop trying to look stupid.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: alexruiz
Jerry Sanders said once that the clawhammer (0.13/0.09) + SOI would be cheaper than a Duron...

Not a snowball's chance in hell. I'm pretty sure you misunderstood.

 

[Rainsford]

SSXeon, your comparisons don't make a whole lot of sense. You can't compare future prices to current prices. And simply comparing one price level means nothing. If I have $170 to spend on a CPU I can get an Athlon XP 2100+ or an Intel P4 1.8A (and save $5). Assuming I don't overclock, the Athlon is a much better deal. However, as I said before, value really depends on how much you want to spend.

As for what Intel will be pitting against Hammer, neither product is out yet. It doesn't matter what some hardware site thinks or says about either chip. It doesn't matter what you post, I could say that Hammer will be released at 20ghz and that wouldn't make one bit of difference to anyone on this board (or it shouldn't at any rate). The only kind of hardware I care about is the kind I can hold in my hand and buy from Newegg. Hardware that exists in some testing lab and/or on paper does not make my box any faster. CPU's that have yet to be released do not make the current crop any cheaper.

As far as I'm concerned, the bottom line is this. Right now what do we have? The Athlon XP 2200+ Tbred and the P4 2.53 ghz. Given all the different factors that come into play when choosing parts, it would be very hard to argue that either chip is "better" for everyone. If you want absolute fastest (in the desktop and Windows market) and money is no object, P4 is the way to go. If you have less money and are concerned with value and never buy top of the line anyways, AMD is probably a better choice. I could go on and on about what each is good at, but the point is that right now it's very hard to declare an all around "winner". Now as far as what might come out later, who knows? Judging performance of yet to be released products is almost impossible, and being so sure based on some specs released by the company that makes the product is foolish. If/when I see Anand do an article that shows Intel's whatever beating Hammer into the ground, then I'll agree with you. Until then, no amount of numbers you throw out is going to convince me of anything (and those numbers shouldn't have convinced you either).

Um, and about specs. Look at the specs for the P4. Looks good, right? Then why is it only saved by high clockspeeds? According to those specs you posted, the P4 should whoop the Athlon XP even at the same clockspeed. They sound great, don't they? But the P4 looses very badly at the same clockspeed as the Athlon XP (none of this SSE2 stuff since I don't see programs supporting it popping out of the walls). Now how would anyone know that from those great sounding features you posted if neither of these products were released? Specs can be made to "prove" anything.

 

[CrawlingEye]

Originally posted by: Wingznut PEZ

Originally posted by: alexruiz
Jerry Sanders said once that the clawhammer (0.13/0.09) + SOI would be cheaper than a Duron...

Not a snowball's chance in hell. I'm pretty sure you misunderstood.

Jerry Sanders also said that the Tbred would be released months before it did. Jerry Sanders also said that the AXP 2500+ would be out now. Jerry Sanders also said that there would be a greater performance gain from the .13u core. Jerry Sanders also said that the Tbred would come with more cache.

Personally, I'd take Col. Sanders over Jerry Sanders any day.

 

[CrawlingEye]

Originally posted by: Rainsford


Um, and about specs. Look at the specs for the P4. Looks good, right? Then why is it only saved by high clockspeeds? According to those specs you posted, the P4 should whoop the Athlon XP even at the same clockspeed. They sound great, don't they? But the P4 looses very badly at the same clockspeed as the Athlon XP (none of this SSE2 stuff since I don't see programs supporting it popping out of the walls). Now how would anyone know that from those great sounding features you posted if neither of these products were released? Specs can be made to "prove" anything.

For someone claiming to know so much about architecture, you've yet to hear of IPC yet, haven't you?
The AXP's have faster ALU's and a shorter pipeline, which limits their scalability (as well as how well they OC).

The smartest thing AMD's doing with the Hammer is putting the heatspreader on it.