What is the point of Windows now ?

[Nothinman]

I double click and it opens. No 3rd party software. Creating/editing PDFs on the other hand takes some effort.

That's a flat out lie, Windows has never supported viewing PDFs out of the box. I'm not sure about the "desktop" release of Win8 but Server 2012 doesn't do it either.

If the source code for that software was open source, in a repository somewhere, that has no bearing on if those flaws would be in there.

People actually developing or going over that code does. In addition, there being someone to install those updates would also be needed. And to prevent the update from uninstalling everything you need someone to test/vet those changes.

Software being free or open source is not a magic bullet. You still need people.

Of course, but in several instances the company producing the devices said they won't be issuing updates and that you should have their device airgapped from the rest of your network. If the source was available it would be simple for a person or even competitor to release an update that removes the backdoor account so that people using those devices can properly secure them.

And it's likely that if the source were open from the beginning that backdoor account wouldn't have existed in the first place.

 

[N4g4rok]

There's an issue with support using Linux. If the user is knowledgeable enough, it isn't much of an issue, but for some single users and companies, being left to find forums to solve problems won't always work out so well. Licensing fees are a pain, but it puts a portion of the blame and the responsibility of providing support onto Microsoft.

However well done a Linux operating system is, being free and open source relies on skilled, hobbyist programmers to make improvements. Having salary-paid software developers likely results in better built operating systems and provides a more reliable upgrade and support track.

The idea of "needing" windows is objective and requires you examine how entrenched you are in the Microsoft ecosystem and how capable you are at fixing your own computer problems. I can say with relative confidence that windows will never be pointless as long as there exists a middle ground in knowledge of computer use, and corporate interest in computing exists.

 

[BrightCandle]

You have to remember that Linux won the OS war. Its installed on more devices than any other operating system flavour. Mac OS X is a unix derivative, although a niche player. But server side Linux is the absolute majority, and a lot of what we do today is on the web. But its also worth considering that Android is Linux with a different skin, and it is the most used smart phone OS out there.

I think in all honesty there isn't a great deal to cut between Windows and Mac OS X, minor tweaks on a common theme which improve certain activities. Linux is a bit different, because it lacks many of the UI tweaks but instead has a very powerful command line.

But Linux won years ago, its just inertia keeping the rest alive now.

 

[Nothinman]

There's an issue with support using Linux. If the user is knowledgeable enough, it isn't much of an issue, but for some single users and companies, being left to find forums to solve problems won't always work out so well. Licensing fees are a pain, but it puts a portion of the blame and the responsibility of providing support onto Microsoft.

IME most users aren't knowledgeable at all and do better with simpler systems, to which Apple can attest. So giving them a Linux system preconfigured is ideal because they don't know enough to break it and it's simple to ssh in and fix/change things for them when they have the need.

However well done a Linux operating system is, being free and open source relies on skilled, hobbyist programmers to make improvements. Having salary-paid software developers likely results in better built operating systems and provides a more reliable upgrade and support track.

So all of those developers paid by RedHat, HP, IBM, Canonical, etc don't count?

The idea of "needing" windows is objective and requires you examine how entrenched you are in the Microsoft ecosystem and how capable you are at fixing your own computer problems. I can say with relative confidence that windows will never be pointless as long as there exists a middle ground in knowledge of computer use, and corporate interest in computing exists.

IME fixing Windows problems is a lot more difficult than fixing Linux ones. Windows error messages are vague and useless and require a lot more knowledge to decipher. I actually just booted up my Server 2012 VM to play with something and Windows Update gave me some strange hex code error with no details as to why it couldn't update. After some investigation I found that the DHCP server on that virtual network wasn't started so it couldn't get out to the Internet. That's a simple, obvious problem but MS still gave me a completely useless error for it.

 

[Anteaus]

I think it's important to filter out the idealogy though. It's easy to paint with a broad brush and talk about all the potential of linux and what it's capable of doing, but ultimately it still fails to do the one thing that would bring it to the top of the pile, convince mainstream developers to produce content for it. It doesn't matter how much better linux is on paper, no one is going to use it if they can't get the software they need for it. No one can deny Linux does extraordinarily well on proprietary devices, but in the real world where average people actually need to get stuff done, it just isn't good enough.

Sure, there are some fields that thrive on Linux. Programmers. Web designers. IT specialists. Servers. Linux is like a big tool box for them. For many other industries, it isn't so pretty.

I'm a geologist and we use many software packages that are Windows only, and these are the types of things there are no linux alternatives for.
I know plenty of people who are in the same boat. You might say they are forced into using Windows, but they would say they choose to use Windows because it has what they need.

If you can't get linux in the office where it's actually has a shot, what makes anyone thing that linux in the home is ever going to be more a crusade for the rightous and a occasional experiment for the layman.

I'll just say it like this. To quote a famous movie, "If you guys were the inventors of Facebook, you'd have invented Facebook." If Linux was good enough to be in homes and in the office, it would be in homes and in the office. You can't beat Microsoft by jumping up and down and talking about how good you are. At some point you have to actually do something.

Maybe that time will come, but if the Linux community really wants to win they are going to pick one distro to be the king and put some muscle behind it. They are going to have to convince developers that they can make money producing content for Linux. They are going to have to spend some money in marketing to convince people that Windows isn't their only choice.

Last, Linux needs real, full featured drivers from the start. None of that barebones crap that always comes with distros. People talk about open source software and all that jazz, but if I still have to go to Nvidias website to get drivers just to have 3D support, then obviously open source has it's limits. Maybe I'm pushing this one too hard, but this seems to be a recurring situation with me.

Anyways, thats my soapbox.

 

[lxskllr]

Lots O'Stuff

Your points are valid. Regardless of the technical attributes of the various O/Ss, it comes down to using what works. I don't hate MS or anything. I think Windows is a competent system. It could be better, just like anything could be better.

People need to value freedom more. It's kind of intangible, but is worth more than all the easy gui doodads you can find. It's a chicken/egg kind of thing, with some philosophical differences thrown in. If people valued, and demanded freedom. companies would sell it to them. My fear is people won't realize the value of freedom until it's too late. It's starting to become too late...

 

[beginner99]

Distros like Ubuntu try to help smooth the transition, but what ends up happening is that the first time someone has a problem or tries to use software that doesn't come preinstalled there is a sudden realization that they are out of their depth and run back to Windows. I've seen it a hundred times.

Or when they have to give a presentation, neatly created in Open Office Impress and saved to ppt(x) so that it can be read by the presenting PC. And there in front of a crowd they realize that those MS Office compatible programs are not really that compatible...

 

[Cerb]

From a consumer's pov, I'm not seeing a whole lot I need Windows for, except that it is the platform for pc games.

WINE compatibility leaves a lot to be desired. While not 100% gaming, I easily stick with Windows 99% for gaming, today. I haven't done much Windows-centric development lately, and the vast majority of non-gaming software I use inside of Windows is the same as I use under Linux.

Try viewing or creating a PDF file in Windows without 3rd party software

Try doing it in Linux without 3rd-party software. In both cases, it fails. And in both cases, there are beer-free and libre-free options available.

Or when they have to give a presentation, neatly created in Open Office Impress and saved to ppt(x) so that it can be read by the presenting PC. And there in front of a crowd they realize that those MS Office compatible programs are not really that compatible...

BS. They just botched a presentation because they ignored ages-old advice, gained from experience of others: always (a) use your own computer, (b) with your own software, and (c) do a practice run.

There are enough incompatibilities between the different versions of Office that not doing so is a bad idea, even with a Powerpoint presentation being viewed in Powerpoint.

 

[Rangoric]

That's a flat out lie, Windows has never supported viewing PDFs out of the box. I'm not sure about the "desktop" release of Win8 but Server 2012 doesn't do it either.

Windows 8 does. It has a "Reader" Metro/Modern/Whatever app that will read PDFs out of the box. It's had it since the developer preview actually.

 

[Nothinman]

Try doing it in Linux without 3rd-party software. In both cases, it fails. And in both cases, there are beer-free and libre-free options available.

That's a disingenuous statement. Almost every distro includes a PDF viewer out of the box, so while it may technically be 3rd party it's there without any action from the user.

Windows 8 does. It has a "Reader" Metro/Modern/Whatever app that will read PDFs out of the box. It's had it since the developer preview actually.

Interesting, I wonder if it's just a "feature" that's not installed on Server 2012 by default. But either way it's still a disingenuous statement because every Windows OS for the past 20 years or more has required a 3rd party piece of software. It's good that MS finally added that, but it doesn't automatically undo the fact that nearly everyone running Windows is still running a version without that app.

 

[Anteaus]

It's good that MS finally added that, but it doesn't automatically undo the fact that nearly everyone running Windows is still running a version without that app.

I agree, but I think it's unfair to get down on Microsoft about this. Windows is commercial software and as such they have to balance out not only what they need to provide their customers but also respect the integrity of their business associates. Windows might be including PDF support with Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure they are doing it with the blessing of Adobe as well as some sort of license fee.

Microsoft can't win here with some people. If they don't include something that is freely available they are accused of producing an incomplete product by the open source software crowd. If they started including open source software they would be accused of profiting on the backs of the open source community as well as get sued by the original developers of said software. If they license said software in order to give it to the customer, they get blasted for never having provided it before.

I'm not pro Microsoft in this, but its obviously they can't get a fair shake from anyone. In my view including or not including PDF support is trivial, given how easy it is to install a viewer. Linux advocates talk about the virtue of building your system exactly the way they want it without the bloat but at the same complain how Microsoft isn't including all the cool bloat that comes preloaded with various distributions, as if some bloat is better than others all of a sudden. I wish everyone can get on the same page.

 

[Nothinman]

I agree, but I think it's unfair to get down on Microsoft about this. Windows is commercial software and as such they have to balance out not only what they need to provide their customers but also respect the integrity of their business associates. Windows might be including PDF support with Windows 8, but I'm pretty sure they are doing it with the blessing of Adobe as well as some sort of license fee.

PDF was made an open standard years ago, there's no need for MS to pay any licensing fees. Vista was release before that but Win7 wasn't so there's no reason they couldn't have included it. But that's also a testament to the rapid release cycle of Linux distributions. It's a lot easier for them to include new things out of the box because they're releasing every 6mo to a year where as MS' slow, closed development cycle means people have to wait several years for a new release.

Microsoft can't win here with some people. If they don't include something that is freely available they are accused of producing an incomplete product by the open source software crowd. If they started including open source software they would be accused of profiting on the backs of the open source community as well as get sued by the original developers of said software. If they license said software in order to give it to the customer, they get blasted for never having provided it before.

That's a very confused paragraph. Open source software is by definition free to distribute and use, there's no way the original developers can sue them for including it unless they violate the license somehow.

MS gets shit for including software in order stifle their competition, but that's part of the special rules applied for being a monopoly. If it were possible to uninstall IE I don't think there would have been any problems, but MS decided not only to bundle it with the OS but to make it impossible to remove.

I'm not pro Microsoft in this, but its obviously they can't get a fair shake from anyone. In my view including or not including PDF support is trivial, given how easy it is to install a viewer. Linux advocates talk about the virtue of building your system exactly the way they want it without the bloat but at the same complain how Microsoft isn't including all the cool bloat that comes preloaded with various distributions, as if some bloat is better than others all of a sudden. I wish everyone can get on the same page.

That's part of being successful. The competition will do everything to knock you down and the jealous people will decry everything they do while their fans will laud the same things.

There's no way for everyone to get on the same page because we all have varying priorities.

 

[HeXen]

PDF was made an open standard years ago, there's no need for MS to pay any licensing fees. Vista was release before that but Win7 wasn't so there's no reason they couldn't have included it.

Its my belief that MS historically leaves things open for their "partners" to develop and grow. Adobe and other developers make money and its the reason that MS neglects features so they can maintain and leave open things for developers to make...they can't if MS provides all that stuff...which is why we get generic apps that come with Windows and some extra's for them to market to us. Otherwise they are afraid a lot less developers would create for the platform....again, that's my opinion of it.
They constantly seem to give and take yet never provide the full enchilada of either, ideally there are many open standards that MS doesn't support but should, however they have no obligation to support any of them.

What thou giveth, they taketh away....no DVD playback in W8..guess this should appease media player developers, so if Foxit or other such PDF viewers don't do as well as a result of W8's viewer app built in..then we may see a FoxIt media player if nothing else.

If MS really cared about the consumer experience, they would get more licenses and include audio/video converters, decoders/encoders of many formats for common devices, streaming and transfering to Android and Apple devices and sony consoles as well...since most people have a mix of brand devices and we all would like our Desktop OS to naitivly communicate with all our other devices as well...but they know they can force what they want on the majority anyway leaving them to use bloated 3rd party apps that contain several startup services for no good reason...lookn at you Itunes.

 

[Nothinman]

Its my belief that MS historically leaves things open for their "partners" to develop and grow. Adobe and other developers make money and its the reason that MS neglects features so they can maintain and leave open things for developers to make...they can't if MS provides all that stuff...which is why we get generic apps that come with Windows and some extra's for them to market to us. Otherwise they are afraid a lot less developers would create for the platform....again, that's my opinion of it.
They constantly seem to give and take yet never provide the full enchilada of either, ideally there are many open standards that MS doesn't support but should, however they have no obligation to support any of them.

That's the tagline, but it's not what they actually do. I would say they didn't care about PDF support because they were pushing XPS. But that never really took off and everyone expects their tablets to be able to display PDFs out of the box so they had little choice in the matter. If MS wants a market they go after it full force without any consideration for developers or users that may be harmed.

MS has no contractual obligations but they need to stay relevant and right now things are moving away from Windows.

What thou giveth, they taketh away....no DVD playback in W8..guess this should appease media player developers, so if Foxit or other such PDF viewers don't do as well as a result of W8's viewer app built in..then we may see a FoxIt media player if nothing else.

You should use the same subject in that quote, something like "What they giveth, they taketh away" Or "MS giveth and MS taketh away", mixing subjects negates and confuse the meaning.

Windows has never played DVDs out of the box because of the licensing required for CSS, MPEG2, AC3, etc. I think it may have been included in the media center stuff, but not Windows itself.

If MS really cared about the consumer experience, they would get more licenses and include audio/video converters, decoders/encoders of many formats for common devices, streaming and transfering to Android and Apple devices and sony consoles as well...since most people have a mix of brand devices and we all would like our Desktop OS to naitivly communicate with all our other devices as well...but they know they can force what they want on the majority anyway leaving them to use bloated 3rd party apps that contain several startup services for no good reason...lookn at you Itunes.

People already complain about the cost of Windows, paying for more licenses for Windows would increase its cost so that's not going to happen unless media shifts to unencumbered formats or formats that MS already owns. Both of those things are very unlikely.

If you don't like iTunes don't use it, using it simply tell Apple that you're ok with the crap they put out.

 

[HeXen]

Windows has never played DVDs out of the box because of the licensing required for CSS, MPEG2, AC3, etc. I think it may have been included in the media center stuff, but not Windows itself.

http://windows.microsoft.com/is-IS/windows7/products/compare?T1=tab04

Watch your favorite DVD movies.

and windows 7 came with media center and W8 doesn't..imagine that. Out of the box dvd watching.

 

[Nothinman]

http://windows.microsoft.com/is-IS/windows7/products/compare?T1=tab04



and windows 7 came with media center and W8 doesn't..imagine that. Out of the box dvd watching.

So it did, my apologies. But that was the first and only release of Windows to do that and it only came on 3 of the 6 SKUs which means the cost was passed down to you as part of the Premium license. I can only guess that after reviewing the Win7 numbers they decided the cost wasn't worth it and reverted that decision with Win8.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Ok, yes, Windows comes with almost every pc sold, but aside from that fact, why do we need it ?

I've been around a long time, I've always used Windows and have used every new version..but I'm just wondering if laptops start coming with Android, or if Linux latpops become more prevalent, is there any point in buying Windows anymore ?

I agree. I've started to become interested in these little "Android-on-a-stick" ARM-based tiny little computers. Basically, tablets without a screen or battery. Something that you could easily hook up to a 1080P HDMI display, hook up a wireless keyboard+mouse, and boot up into Android, and web browse, consume media files (online streaming and stored on a flash card), and basically do all the NEFing that you need to do online for 99% of the consumer population, without ever needing a PC or Windows. It's got to be Intel and MS's worst nightmare. But thanks to low-cost, low-power ARM CPUs, and free/open-source software (Linux and Android), it is possible.

It will just take some slightly better engineering on the part of the device mfg'ers (heard that many of the MK802 variants overheat), and we might see this revolution.

I mean, desktop sales are already down, and if people "wake up" to a reality in which they no longer have to purchase and maintain a clunky PC running Windows (dealing with malware, bloat, maintenance, etc), but instead have this tiny little box with a few wires and WiFi for internet, then this may finally happen.

 

[colonelciller]

Besides games, I can't think of a single thing that Windows does that Linux can't.

2 words: commercial software

This thread is hilarious. I'm no computer guru like you guys and yet I can think of piles of essential (non-substitutable) software that runs ONLY on Windows & Mac. Much of this list runs better on a Windows OS, some of it runs Only on a 64-bit Windows OS. Some of it may run on Linux (I'm guessing that mental ray does)... and some of it when run on Linux will be broken in various ways... which I'd venture to say means that it doesn't run under Linux by definition, unless diminished and missing key functionality somehow counts as a "feature".

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Vue
Mac OS X v10.5+ 32/64,
Windows XP/Vista/Windows 7 32/64


Adobe products:
Windows & MAC: Win XP & 7; Win 7 SP1(64 bit) req. for Premiere Pro, After Effects & Encore; Win 7 sp1 req. for SpeedGrade
Mac OS X v10.6.8 or v10.7 - Adobe Creative Suite 5, 5.5, and CS6 support Mac OS X Mountain Lion (v10.8) when installed on Intel based systems. Refer to the CS6 FAQ for more information about Mac OS X Mountain Lion support.**

Photoshop Extended
Photoshop® CS6 Extended
Illustrator
Illustrator® CS6
InDesign
InDesign® CS6
Acrobat Pro
Acrobat® X Pro
Flash Professional
Flash® Professional CS6
Flash Builder
Flash Builder® 4.6 Premium Edition
Dreamweaver
Dreamweaver® CS6
Fireworks
Fireworks® CS6
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Premiere® Pro CS6
After Effects
After Effects® CS6
Adobe Audition
Adobe Audition® CS6
SpeedGrade
SpeedGrade™ CS6
Adobe Prelude
Prelude™ CS6
Encore
Encore® CS6
Bridge
Bridge CS6
Media Encoder
Media Encoder CS6

------------------------------------------------------------


Autodesk Products: Windows & Mac only… some can be run under linux with loss of key functionality… which means that they don't work. Example from the autodesk website:
"Note: Maya 2013 is also capable of running on other configurations such as boutique distributions of Linux. However, enumerating systems that are not tested and cannot be supported or that fall below the requirements for a productive user experience is beyond the scope of the online certification charts."


AutoCAD
AutoCAD for Mac
AutoCAD Architecture
AutoCAD Civil 3D
AutoCAD Design Suite
AutoCAD Electrical
AutoCAD Freestyle
AutoCAD Inventor LT Suite
AutoCAD LT
AutoCAD LT for Mac
AutoCAD Map 3D
AutoCAD Mechanical
AutoCAD MEP
AutoCAD OEM
AutoCAD P&ID
AutoCAD Plant 3D
AutoCAD Raster Design
AutoCAD Revit Architecture Suite
AutoCAD Revit MEP Suite
AutoCAD Revit Structure Suite
AutoCAD Structural Detailing
AutoCAD Utility Design
AutoCAD WS
Autodesk 123D
Autodesk 123D Sculpt
Autodesk 360 Mobile App
Autodesk 3ds Max
Autodesk 3ds Max Design
Autodesk 3ds Max Entertainment Creation Suite
Autodesk Alias Products
Autodesk Alias Design
Autodesk Alias Surface
Autodesk Alias Automotive
Autodesk Beast
Autodesk BIM 360
Autodesk Building Design Suite
Autodesk Buzzsaw
Autodesk Constructware
Autodesk Design Review
Autodesk DWF Writer
Autodesk Ecotect Analysis
Autodesk Entertainment Creation Suites
Autodesk Fabrication CADmep
Autodesk Fabrication CAMduct
Autodesk Fabrication ESTmep
Autodesk Fabrication FABmep
Autodesk Factory Design Suites
Autodesk FBX
Autodesk Flame
Autodesk Flame Premium
Autodesk Flare
Autodesk Fluid FX
Autodesk ForceEffect
Autodesk ForceEffect Motion
Autodesk Freewheel
Autodesk GIS Design Server
Autodesk Green Building Studio
Autodesk HumanIK
Autodesk Homestyler
Autodesk Impression
Autodesk Infrastructure Design Suite
Autodesk Infrastructure Map Server
Autodesk Infrastructure Modeler
Autodesk Inventor Engineer-to-Order
Autodesk Inventor Products
Autodesk Inventor Fusion
Autodesk Inventor Publisher
Autodesk Inventor LT
Autodesk Kynapse
Autodesk Lustre
Autodesk Maya
Autodesk Maya Entertainment Creation Suite
Autodesk MotionBuilder
Autodesk Mudbox
Autodesk Navisworks Products
Autodesk Navisworks Manage
Autodesk Navisworks Simulate
Autodesk Navisworks Review
Autodesk Navisworks Freedom
Autodesk Plant Design Suite
Autodesk PLM 360
Autodesk Product Design Suite
Autodesk Opticore Studio Professional
Autodesk Quantity Takeoff
Autodesk Revit
Autodesk Revit Architecture
Autodesk Revit LT
Autodesk Revit MEP
Autodesk Revit Structure
Autodesk Robot Structural Analysis Professional
Autodesk Scaleform
Autodesk Seek
Autodesk Showcase
Autodesk Simulation 360
Autodesk Simulation CFD
Autodesk Simulation DFM
Autodesk Simulation Mechanical and Multiphysics
Autodesk Simulation Moldflow
Autodesk SketchBook Designer
Autodesk SketchBook Pro
Autodesk Smoke
Autodesk Softimage
Autodesk Stitcher Unlimited
Autodesk Streamline
Autodesk Time FX
Autodesk TinkerBox
Autodesk Vault Products
Autodesk Vault Collaboration
Autodesk Vault Collaboration AEC
Autodesk Vault Professional
Autodesk Vault Workgroup
AutoSketch
CAiCE Visual Transportation Products
DWG TrueView
DWG TrueConvert
mental ray
Motion FX
ObjectARX
Pixlr

 

[Nothinman]

2 words: commercial software

This thread is hilarious. I'm no computer guru like you guys and yet I can think of piles of essential (non-substitutable) software that runs ONLY on Windows & Mac. Much of this list runs better on a Windows OS, some of it runs Only on a 64-bit Windows OS. Some of it may run on Linux (I'm guessing that mental ray does)... and some of it when run on Linux will be broken in various ways... which I'd venture to say means that it doesn't run under Linux by definition, unless diminished and missing key functionality somehow counts as a "feature".

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Vue
Mac OS X v10.5+ 32/64,
Windows XP/Vista/Windows 7 32/64


Adobe products:
Windows & MAC: Win XP & 7; Win 7 SP1(64 bit) req. for Premiere Pro, After Effects & Encore; Win 7 sp1 req. for SpeedGrade
Mac OS X v10.6.8 or v10.7 - Adobe Creative Suite 5, 5.5, and CS6 support Mac OS X Mountain Lion (v10.8) when installed on Intel based systems. Refer to the CS6 FAQ for more information about Mac OS X Mountain Lion support.**

Photoshop Extended
Photoshop® CS6 Extended
Illustrator
Illustrator® CS6
InDesign
InDesign® CS6
Acrobat Pro
Acrobat® X Pro
Flash Professional
Flash® Professional CS6
Flash Builder
Flash Builder® 4.6 Premium Edition
Dreamweaver
Dreamweaver® CS6
Fireworks
Fireworks® CS6
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Premiere® Pro CS6
After Effects
After Effects® CS6
Adobe Audition
Adobe Audition® CS6
SpeedGrade
SpeedGrade™ CS6
Adobe Prelude
Prelude™ CS6
Encore
Encore® CS6
Bridge
Bridge CS6
Media Encoder
Media Encoder CS6

------------------------------------------------------------


Autodesk Products: Windows & Mac only… some can be run under linux with loss of key functionality… which means that they don't work. Example from the autodesk website:
"Note: Maya 2013 is also capable of running on other configurations such as boutique distributions of Linux. However, enumerating systems that are not tested and cannot be supported or that fall below the requirements for a productive user experience is beyond the scope of the online certification charts."


AutoCAD
AutoCAD for Mac
AutoCAD Architecture
AutoCAD Civil 3D
AutoCAD Design Suite
AutoCAD Electrical
AutoCAD Freestyle
AutoCAD Inventor LT Suite
AutoCAD LT
AutoCAD LT for Mac
AutoCAD Map 3D
AutoCAD Mechanical
AutoCAD MEP
AutoCAD OEM
AutoCAD P&ID
AutoCAD Plant 3D
AutoCAD Raster Design
AutoCAD Revit Architecture Suite
AutoCAD Revit MEP Suite
AutoCAD Revit Structure Suite
AutoCAD Structural Detailing
AutoCAD Utility Design
AutoCAD WS
Autodesk 123D
Autodesk 123D Sculpt
Autodesk 360 Mobile App
Autodesk 3ds Max
Autodesk 3ds Max Design
Autodesk 3ds Max Entertainment Creation Suite
Autodesk Alias Products
Autodesk Alias Design
Autodesk Alias Surface
Autodesk Alias Automotive
Autodesk Beast
Autodesk BIM 360
Autodesk Building Design Suite
Autodesk Buzzsaw
Autodesk Constructware
Autodesk Design Review
Autodesk DWF Writer
Autodesk Ecotect Analysis
Autodesk Entertainment Creation Suites
Autodesk Fabrication CADmep
Autodesk Fabrication CAMduct
Autodesk Fabrication ESTmep
Autodesk Fabrication FABmep
Autodesk Factory Design Suites
Autodesk FBX
Autodesk Flame
Autodesk Flame Premium
Autodesk Flare
Autodesk Fluid FX
Autodesk ForceEffect
Autodesk ForceEffect Motion
Autodesk Freewheel
Autodesk GIS Design Server
Autodesk Green Building Studio
Autodesk HumanIK
Autodesk Homestyler
Autodesk Impression
Autodesk Infrastructure Design Suite
Autodesk Infrastructure Map Server
Autodesk Infrastructure Modeler
Autodesk Inventor Engineer-to-Order
Autodesk Inventor Products
Autodesk Inventor Fusion
Autodesk Inventor Publisher
Autodesk Inventor LT
Autodesk Kynapse
Autodesk Lustre
Autodesk Maya
Autodesk Maya Entertainment Creation Suite
Autodesk MotionBuilder
Autodesk Mudbox
Autodesk Navisworks Products
Autodesk Navisworks Manage
Autodesk Navisworks Simulate
Autodesk Navisworks Review
Autodesk Navisworks Freedom
Autodesk Plant Design Suite
Autodesk PLM 360
Autodesk Product Design Suite
Autodesk Opticore Studio Professional
Autodesk Quantity Takeoff
Autodesk Revit
Autodesk Revit Architecture
Autodesk Revit LT
Autodesk Revit MEP
Autodesk Revit Structure
Autodesk Robot Structural Analysis Professional
Autodesk Scaleform
Autodesk Seek
Autodesk Showcase
Autodesk Simulation 360
Autodesk Simulation CFD
Autodesk Simulation DFM
Autodesk Simulation Mechanical and Multiphysics
Autodesk Simulation Moldflow
Autodesk SketchBook Designer
Autodesk SketchBook Pro
Autodesk Smoke
Autodesk Softimage
Autodesk Stitcher Unlimited
Autodesk Streamline
Autodesk Time FX
Autodesk TinkerBox
Autodesk Vault Products
Autodesk Vault Collaboration
Autodesk Vault Collaboration AEC
Autodesk Vault Professional
Autodesk Vault Workgroup
AutoSketch
CAiCE Visual Transportation Products
DWG TrueView
DWG TrueConvert
mental ray
Motion FX
ObjectARX
Pixlr

And of the software in that list how many people really care about any of it? Maybe 5% of the computer using population at the most?

But the point was that Linux is perfectly capable of running commercial software, the fact that companies like Adobe choose not to port to it is a business/political decision and not a technical one. I can't think of a single technical thing that Windows can do that Linux can't, while I can definitely come up with a few in the other direction.

 

[colonelciller]

And of the software in that list how many people really care about any of it? Maybe 5% of the computer using population at the most?

But the point was that Linux is perfectly capable of running commercial software, the fact that companies like Adobe choose not to port to it is a business/political decision and not a technical one. I can't think of a single technical thing that Windows can do that Linux can't, while I can definitely come up with a few in the other direction.

Adobe, Autodesk, etc... develop for Windows for business reasons (windows marketshare). It is perfectly understandable why businesses choose to develop for windows due to available potential customer base.

What can windows do that Linux can't? simple, it can run that software that is available only on windows. If major software developers would make their software run well on Linux then the windows advantage would be seriously diminished.

 

[lxskllr]

Adobe, Autodesk, etc... develop for Windows for business reasons (windows marketshare). It is perfectly understandable why businesses choose to develop for windows due to available potential customer base.

What can windows do that Linux can't? simple, it can run that software that is available only on windows. If major software developers would make their software run well on Linux then the windows advantage would be seriously diminished.

Dude, your being pedantic about it. Everyone understands the obvious. This is a general discussion amongst people who are generally aware of the different systems. If we were in an architects' forum, you'd have a point about AutoDesk. If we were in a sociopath's forum, you'd have a point about Adobe. General terms are good enough for a general forum.

 

[cmdrdredd]

You guys are acting like he is wrong. He is not. He answered the question posed by the op. Why do we need windows? Professional software doesn't work nor do most games. Thats why.

 

[Nothinman]

Adobe, Autodesk, etc... develop for Windows for business reasons (windows marketshare). It is perfectly understandable why businesses choose to develop for windows due to available potential customer base.

What can windows do that Linux can't? simple, it can run that software that is available only on windows. If major software developers would make their software run well on Linux then the windows advantage would be seriously diminished.

But the thread is from the consumer's standpoint which generally is a home user, not a business. Everyone understands that you can't run Windows-only software on Linux in a supported fashion, that's just common sense.

You guys are acting like he is wrong. He is not. He answered the question posed by the op. Why do we need windows? Professional software doesn't work nor do most games. Thats why.

Except that the OP is looking at it from a personal/home perspective, not business perspective. So yes, in this context he is wrong unless there's a lot more home users out there using things like AutoCAD Architecture for their personal projects.

 

[imagoon]

Personally I still find Windows Management in the enterprise superior. Even though Active Directory is based on and more or less built on top of LDAP (and a variety of other techs, concepts and designs like group policy,) a lot of effort was put in to allow this tech to control the systems as the admins see fit. I am sure Linux could do the same thing, it is often done only with scripting and some sort of homebrewed app or something by far bigger such as Bladelogic and the like.

I don't fear Linux, I regularly need to support RHEL machines. The RHEL machines tend to be consistent so scripting works decently well. However if you need to mix for some reason, a simple script like "open port 80" becomes this mess of "check to see if they are using iptables or ipchains [or nothing etc] then do this rather long line of config written in for that specific solution. Then email, syslog or snmp trap the result back. While on Windows it is "Build the rule in the firewall, export as xml, import in to selected GPO and go." or "export the rule as a powershell command, execute command on all servers, export the results of all servers to an xml file."

Add on to the fact that every time I try Linux on the desktop, I always seem to have at least one driver that fails with obscure errors / no messages at all. I also have yet to have one laptop actually sleep and come back correctly. Most of the time I get fed up and quit before I find an answer. I also I think the latest Gnome desktop makes Windows 8 look like it was designed by geniuses. The latest KDE however looks enticing if I could get it to be stable on the hardware I give it. I Don't consider a Dell D530 to new or to old to work at least semi-decently.

Long run... do I "need" Windows? Yes for myself I do. Does my mom? Maybe not. As long as it is running on a stable system for it. Then again my mom runs inside Windows 7 as a restricted user just fine. If she gets a "virus" I just purge her profile since the "virus" has no access to system.

 

[Tom]

What prompted me to ask the original question is the reasoning behind the new Microsoft tablets.

Which I think is..people have to use or want to use Windows on their computers, so they will want the same thing on their phones and tablets.

But I'm thinking consumers are actually moving away from pc's, towards smartphones and tablets based on Android and/or ios.

So I think it might be as likely that people will move away from Windows pc's as it is they will move towards Windows phones and tablets.

Its from that pov that I'm wondering why consumers still need or want Windows, or is the time ripe for laptops and desktops without Windows ?