What is the Soul?

[zCypher]

where's the human soul after severe brain damage and the person basically isn't "there" anymore" aren't we all just our brains and biology?

If we're nothing but brains and biology, how do we explain people that come out of comas years later? They were "gone" and suddenly they've "returned"? What about cases where they vividly recall details that are verified by healthcare workers that were present, during the coma when there was evidently little or no brain activity?

Someone else made a post about this book, consciousness beyond life I think. The thread was not well received here. I bought the book as it was something like $5 on Amazon at the time and the subject is interesting for sure. The problem with it is that it raises many more questions than it answers, it makes you ponder but leaves you with no more certainty. Unless you were convinced that there was absolutely nothing beyond death, in which case the book *may* lead you to consider the possibility of some form of existence beyond death in spite of the lack of anything truly conclusive.

What is the soul? Same thing going on here, this will raise all types of questions and we'll have the usual lame responses by people that like to sound like a know-it-all.

 

[IronWing]

What is the soul? Same thing going on here, this will raise all types of questions and we'll have the usual lame responses by people that like to sound like a know-it-all.

That is simply a result of arguing w/o data. We have no data about souls nor a proposed method of determining the existence of souls nor a proposed method for determining the characteristics of souls. Until we have these things, one religion's view of the soul is as good as the next is as good as "souls are dragon spit". The field is wide open for baseless conjecture and endless pseudo-intellectual masturbation.

 

[HeXen]

If we're nothing but brains and biology, how do we explain people that come out of comas years later? They were "gone" and suddenly they've "returned"? What about cases where they vividly recall details that are verified by healthcare workers that were present, during the coma when there was evidently little or no brain activity?

lack of brain activity doesnt always mean the brain cells are dead. just not firing electrical impulses or very little. As long as the brain cells are not dead, everything would still be there.

 

[TalonStrike]

If the soul is merely a series of electromagnetic pulses being fired within the brain, then it is conceivable that this energy could be harnessed to allow the transfer of the soul from one body to another, or from a body to an artificial construct. This is what interests me.

 

[HeXen]

If the soul is merely a series of electromagnetic pulses being fired within the brain, then it is conceivable that this energy could be harnessed to allow the transfer of the soul from one body to another, or from a body to an artificial construct. This is what interests me.

but you would have to interfere or remove the other body's own electrical impulses right? else you might have some serious issues i would imagine.
But i think there is more to conscientiousness than just electrical pulses cause if you could mimic someone elses electrical impulses to match your own perfectly, there is no way they would suddenly have a copy of your conscience or even still think like you.
Maybe that would change if you could implant memories? i also find it interesting that some who have transplants seem to have thoughts or memories of the original person who had that organ.

 

[Fritzo]

One of the cooler theories that I think actually makes sense involves quantum entanglement.

If all the particles in our bodies are entangled with particles elsewhere in the universe, when we die, our consciousnesses may actually mesh with the universe. Essentially the universe as a whole is the collective consciousness of every thinking creature that has ever lived.

Kind of blows your mind when you think about it like that.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

One of the cooler theories that I think actually makes sense involves quantum entanglement.

If all the particles in our bodies are entangled with particles elsewhere in the universe, when we die, our consciousnesses may actually mesh with the universe. Essentially the universe as a whole is the collective consciousness of every thinking creature that has ever lived.

Kind of blows your mind when you think about it like that.

Except the particles in your body now are completely different from the particles in your body 10 years ago. The body you had at that time is already dead, and in 10 years from now, every single piece of you will be dead again -- replaced with new material.

 

[911paramedic]

If the soul is merely a series of electromagnetic pulses being fired within the brain, then it is conceivable that this energy could be harnessed to allow the transfer of the soul from one body to another, or from a body to an artificial construct. This is what interests me.

They follow very unique pathways that are formed throughout your life, if you cannot recreate the exact pattern you lose that persons essence.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

"Soul" is too much of a religiously-charged term, IMO. I don't think that a soul exists in the way that the religions frame it. If we were to stop thinking about the soul as something you have and rather regarded it as what you are, it begins to make more sense -- to me, at least.

Perhaps a different term entirely would be more useful than trying to untangle the term "soul" from its religious connotations. "Being" fits, I suppose, but it seems kind of vague. " "Consciousness" is maybe more direct, but here on the other end of the spectrum I think the sciences have some poorly framed ideas about what consciousness is. It is inherent in the scientific method to divorce itself from the individual observer -- to describe what exists "out there," while the substantial facts about consciousness exist "in here," so to speak.

 

[slayernine]

About 3 grams.

 

[mattpegher]

"Soul" is too much of a religiously-charged term, IMO. I don't think that a soul exists in the way that the religions frame it. If we were to stop thinking about the soul as something you have and rather regarded it as what you are, it begins to make more sense -- to me, at least.

Perhaps a different term entirely would be more useful than trying to untangle the term "soul" from its religious connotations. "Being" fits, I suppose, but it seems kind of vague. " "Consciousness" is maybe more direct, but here on the other end of the spectrum I think the sciences have some poorly framed ideas about what consciousness is. It is inherent in the scientific method to divorce itself from the individual observer -- to describe what exists "out there," while the substantial facts about consciousness exist "in here," so to speak.

I think the way this discussion has gone is to question if some there exists some form of energy that is manifested in the human body that creates sentience (self awareness). And being a force of energy does it persist after the death of the material that it is attached to. Ie does this sentience persist or is it little more than an perception that dissipates once it is decoupled from the physical form.
What is it that made ancient man conceptualize the soul. Was it a perception of self, an illusion of being more than physical, or a concept born of a need for reward and punishment?

 

[Jeff7]

I think the way this discussion has gone is to question if some there exists some form of energy that is manifested in the human body that creates sentience (self awareness). And being a force of energy does it persist after the death of the material that it is attached to. Ie does this sentience persist or is it little more than an perception that dissipates once it is decoupled from the physical form.
What is it that made ancient man conceptualize the soul. Was it a perception of self, an illusion of being more than physical, or a concept born of a need for reward and punishment?

People have come up with all kinds of explanations for anything and everything. Why does the Sun move across the sky? It's a guy with a chariot.
Why do the tides change? It's a giant whale moving its tail.
Why do people get sick? Demons.


Why come up with the soul?
- At least in the idea of an eternal soul, it's a psychological response to a fear of death - a way of cheating death. "Hah, my body's dead, but the part that matters can never die!" Get out of jail free.
- Just something else interesting about life to try to explain.

 

[mattpegher]

People have come up with all kinds of explanations for anything and everything. Why does the Sun move across the sky? It's a guy with a chariot.
Why do the tides change? It's a giant whale moving its tail.
Why do people get sick? Demons.


Why come up with the soul?
- At least in the idea of an eternal soul, it's a psychological response to a fear of death - a way of cheating death. "Hah, my body's dead, but the part that matters can never die!" Get out of jail free.
- Just something else interesting about life to try to explain.

The interesting thing that has been brought up in the last few posts seperates the discussion for post mortem, just addressing the sentience part. This might become an empirically approachable concept.
Even as a physician with a bs in biochem and biophys, I still find it interesting that there exists very little difference between a recently deceased animal and a living one.
I often can resucitate a person, returning cardiac function and blood pressure, yet the brain was without oxygen for a relatively short period. Microscopicly the brain tissues have very subtle changes that manifest in irreversable brain death. There is just so much more we have to discover about the moment of death esp at the quantum level.

 

[sandorski]

Except the particles in your body now are completely different from the particles in your body 10 years ago. The body you had at that time is already dead, and in 10 years from now, every single piece of you will be dead again -- replaced with new material.

:'(

RIP ten years ago me. You were too young and I really felt close to you and felt that we truly understood ourselves.

:'(

 

[Jeff7]

:'(

RIP ten years ago me. You were too young and I really felt close to you and felt that we truly understood ourselves.

:'(

You're now the homeopathic version of 10-years-ago You.

The interesting thing that has been brought up in the last few posts seperates the discussion for post mortem, just addressing the sentience part. This might become an empirically approachable concept.
Even as a physician with a bs in biochem and biophys, I still find it interesting that there exists very little difference between a recently deceased animal and a living one.
I often can resucitate a person, returning cardiac function and blood pressure, yet the brain was without oxygen for a relatively short period. Microscopicly the brain tissues have very subtle changes that manifest in irreversable brain death. There is just so much more we have to discover about the moment of death esp at the quantum level.

Or else the structures responsible for data storage are simply extremely fragile.

My PC's RAM will lose data within several dozen nanoseconds if it's not refreshed, but I won't be coming up with any elaborate ideas to explain where the data "goes" if that happens. The charges used to store data will neutralize each other due to internal leakage. Some data may be retrievable after power loss, somewhat like what you'd get in the event of oxygen deprivation in a brain, but the data couldn't be extracted reliably or completely, and it could only through relatively elaborate methods.

Evolution so kindly granted us use of volatile memory storage for everything - OS, updates, applications, everything.

 

[busydude]

Is it true that gingers have no souls?

 

[jjzelinski]

There is no such thing as a soul, stop being superstitious. There's plenty going on in the universe that we'll never comprehend, and some people need the comfort of ridiculous, generalizing, fantastical explanations that legitimize the perceived pointlessness of existence seen through the lens of human consciousness. WYSIWYG folks. Cry moar